C2C - Transhuman Era

[Praetyre]

3 trillion? More like 1 quadrillion, bare minimum. Using just the land surface area of Earth and the density of Auckland, a city with hardly any apartments that have occupation into the triple digits, let alone the quadruple, I can fit in nearly 432 billion people. There's a reason Star Wars is said to have had space travel for 500,000 years, and FTL for 25,000. MrAzure's timelines are anything but unrealistic. Of course, assuming steady population growth, the entire civilization is going to have a lot more people than that; I'd say the dozens of quintillions would be a fair lower level estimate for a civilization on that age and level. Now that's going to throw a loop in my time plan and star system population sizes...

 

[Daedwartin]

3 trillion? More like 1 quadrillion, bare minimum. Using just the land surface area of Earth and the density of Auckland, a city with hardly any apartments that have occupation into the triple digits, let alone the quadruple, I can fit in nearly 432 billion people. There's a reason Star Wars is said to have had space travel for 500,000 years, and FTL for 25,000. MrAzure's timelines are anything but unrealistic. Of course, assuming steady population growth, the entire civilization is going to have a lot more people than that; I'd say the dozens of quintillions would be a fair lower level estimate for a civilization on that age and level. Now that's going to throw a loop in my time plan and star system population sizes...

Let's remember something though. The star wars setting has seen multiple republic wide wars. Every time we seen the star wars galaxy, they have been relatively the same level of technology. Even after three thousand years have passed. It's because multiple dark ages have occurred. One resulted in the republic only being able to communicate via FTL ships. Half of the dark ages seem to have been caused by the Sith ne way or another. It is even said in source material Corusant's census population is 1 trillion and is believed to be 3 times larger in fact. Also, there have been times the planet had a planet-wide population of 10 billion, while Luke was still alive. Granted...those periods were very far from being the best of times. Corusant also belays one more fact: it's MUCH farther out than it should be. Neptune's orbit is the same distance in effect. And it orbits only a slightly brighter sun. the planet requires a entire fleet of mirrors to stay warm by that point in it's history...I don't think anyone knows how it managed to support temperate ecosystems to begin with. Also, it does have a very large ocean in the western hemisphere. It is artificial, but the entire planet is not just covered in a city.

 

[Daedwartin]

Let's remember something though. The star wars setting has seen multiple republic wide wars. Every time we seen the star wars galaxy, they have been relatively the same level of technology. Even after three thousand years have passed. It's because multiple dark ages have occurred. One resulted in the republic only being able to communicate via FTL ships. Half of the dark ages seem to have been caused by the Sith ne way or another. It is even said in source material Corusant's census population is 1 trillion and is believed to be 3 times larger in fact. Also, there have been times the planet had a planet-wide population of 10 billion, while Luke was still alive. Granted...those periods were very far from being the best of times. Corusant also belays one more fact: it's MUCH farther out than it should be. Neptune's orbit is the same distance in effect. And it orbits only a slightly brighter sun. the planet requires a entire fleet of mirrors to stay warm by that point in it's history...I don't think anyone knows how it managed to support temperate ecosystems to begin with. Also, it does have a very large ocean in the western hemisphere. It is artificial, but the entire planet is not just covered in a city.

Also, the is over 50 million colonized worlds in the star wars universe, known to the republic. It's a lot more spread out. Fonder, a planet literally covered in a city, with no seas, has a population of 6 billion. And is the same size of the earth. granted...it's also a factory planet EXETREMELY HEAVY ON AUTOMATION. The job of those 6 billion is to just oversee and maintain the factories.

Alsk no one actually knows what the under levels population is. Their is a entire species of zombie like creatures living in the Corusant Underworld, which is literally in essence it's own world. The bottom 50 levels(of thousands) haven't seen light for over 100,000 years.

 

[Vokarya]

Well, here it is: the rest of the current Transhuman Era.

|X89|X90|X91|X92|X93|X94
Y1||Holographics|||Orbital Flight|Advanced Environmental Systems
Y3|Automated Urbanization|||Anti-Aging Medicine||Superstrong Alloys
Y5||Biomimetics|Skyroads||Quantum Computing|Personal Robots
Y7||||Universal Translator||Environmental Economics
Y9|Warmachines|Advanced Computers|Invisibility|Antigrav||Megacorporations
Y11||Wireless Electricity|Interactive Glass|Supersonic Rails|Androids|Nanoelectronics
Y13||Plastic Electronics|Artificial Intelligence
Y15|Nanogenerators|Novus Chemistry|Exocortex Networks||Cybernetics|Cyberpunk
Y17||Vertical Farming|Accelerated Germination|Artificial Photosynthesis|Smart Drugs|Homo Superior
Y19|Rapid Recuperation|Bionics||Cyberimmunology|Regenerative Medicine|DNA Computing

Column X89:

• Y3: Automated Urbanization
  requires Automated Services + Ontological Engineernig
• Y9: Warmachines
  requires Advanced Digital Warfare + Internal Shockwave Engine + Mesh Networks + Railgun
• Y15: Nanogenerators
  requires Liquid Metals
• Y19: Rapid Recuperation
  requires Gene Jurisprudence

Deleted from this column: Asymmetrical Architecture, Transonic Traffic, Animalia Exoskeletons, Launchpod Jetpack, Binary Psychoactives.

Column X90:

• Y1: Holographics
  requires Mesh Networks + Nanogenerators
• Y5: Biomimetics
  requires Ontological Engineering
• Y9: Advanced Computers
  requires Automated Urbanization + Nanogenerators + Ontological Engineering
• Y11: Wireless Electricity
  requires Automated Urbanization + Holographics + Nanogenerators
• Y13: Plastic Electronics
  requires Nanogenerators
• Y15: Novus Chemistry
  requires Ontological Engineering
• Y17: Vertical Farming
  requires Automated Urbanization
• Y19: Bionics
  requires Nanogenerators + Rapid Recuperation

Deleted from this column: Stratosphere Warfare (merged with Orbital Flight), Futuristic Theology.

Column X91:

• Y5: Skyroads
  requires Novus Chemistry + Wireless Electricity
• Y9: Invisibility
  requires Holographics + Orbital Flight
• Y11: Interactive Glass
  requires Holographics + Plastic Electronics + Wireless Electricity
• Y13: Artificial Intelligence
  requires Advanced Computers + Bionics + Holographics + Novus Chemistry + Wireless Electricity
• Y15: Exocortex Networks
  requires Automated Urbanization + Bionics + Novus Chemistry + Wireless Electricity
• Y17: Accelerated Germination
  requires Novus Chemistry + Vertical Farming + Wireless Electricity

Deleted from this column: Cybersociology, Telemedicine, Thorium Reactor.

Column X92:

• Y3: Anti-Aging Medicine
  requires Nanogenerators + Ontological Engineering + Rapid Recuperation
• Y7: Universal Translator
  requires Artificial Intelligence
• Y9: Antigrav
  requires Artificial Intelligence + Skyroads
• Y11: Supersonic Rails
  requires Holographics + Wireless Electricity
• Y17: Artificial Photosynthesis
  requires Accelerated Germination + Interactive Glass + Invisibility
• Y19: Cyberimmunology
  requires Artificial Intelligence + Exocortex Networks

Deleted from this column: Exotic Architecture, Inaccessible Recreation, Biogel Refrigeration, Simulated Society, Molecular Consortium. Cruise Communities is deleted, and it is the only tech in X93. X94 has only Anti-Aging Medicine, so I moved it here.

Column X93 is what used to be X95. I am moving it to free some space so that we can move the Lunar technologies into the Transhuman Era without having to jumble up too many. All of these techs are black techs (or Cyberpunk, which is blue) so they all have to stay.

• Y1: Orbital Flight
  requires Advanced Computers + Skyroads
• Y5: Quantum Computing
  requires Advanced Computers + Quantum Teleportation
• Y11: Androids
  requires Advanced Computers + Biomimetics
• Y15: Cybernetics
  requires Bionics
• Y17: Smart Drugs
  requires Anti-Aging Medicine
• Y19: Regenerative Medicine
  requires Anti-Aging Medicine

Column X94 is what used to be X97 and X99. Advanced Environmental Systems was the only tech in X99. This column could sit at X95 instead. I'm not too concerned either way.

• Y1: Advanced Enviromental Systems
  requires Orbital Flight + Space Stations
• Y3: Superstrong Alloys
  requires Advanced Computers + (Biomimetics OR Invisibility)
• Y5: Personal Robots
  requires Androids + Plastic Electronics + Universal Translator
• Y7: Environmental Economics
  requires Advanced Computers
• Y9: Megacorporations
  requires Mesh Networks
• Y11: Nanoelectronics
  requires Plastic Electronics
• Y15: Cyberpunk
  requires Androids + Cybernetics
• Y17: Homo Superior
  requires Biomimetics + Universal Translator
• Y19: DNA Computing
  requires Advanced Computers + Bionics + Regenerative Medicine

Draft technologies not included:

• Accelerated Consumerism
• Advanced Body Armor
• Aerial Dreadnaughts
• Binary Legislation
• Bioluminescence Structures
• Clone Society
• Codebank Tactics
• Crystaline Alloys
• Cyberanthropology
• DEFCON Tactics
• Designer Children
• Diamond Memory
• Dream Forensics
• Ecological Empathy
• Emotion Transistors
• Gene Enhancement
• Gene Therapy
• Genetic Warfare
• Human Behavior Modeling
• Machine Vision
• Meiosis Multiplication
• Metabolism Design
• Nanosatellite Network
• Obesity Immunization
• Orbital Structures
• Printed Electronics
• Suborbital Structures
• Subsentient Computers
• Subsonic Highways
• Underwater Travel
• Virtual Sports
• Weaponized Acoustics

I still have to make some of these XML changes, especially moving the last few columns backwards. I will give the XML a test on my version of C2C and see if there any XML errors result before I commit the changes to SVN.

The Lunar technologies still need a little bit of analysis before I post a possible new workup. I have to figure out which Galactic prerequisites need to be removed or modified.

 

[Praetyre]

3 trillion people stretched across the land area of Earth would be around 20,000 people per square kilometre. So, all of Coruscant would be twice as dense as New York City. This sounds impressive, until you factor in the fact that the entire planet is covered; stretching NYC across the entire planet gives you 5 trillion, and naturally doubling that gets you 10. Then you figure in the fact that Coruscant has at least 50 levels of kilometres-tall skyscrapers, probably much more, and that it's been that way for at least 100,000 years, 4 times older than the Republic and hyperdrive itself. Taking 50 as a bare minimum (probably an exceedingly conservative estimate, given we know Coruscant is larger than Earth and that these lowest layers are merely the lowest fifty, permanently sunless layers) gives up 500 trillion people. 6 billion isn't even a bad joke (a slight at the writers, not the poster); our world has more than that, and I'm not seeing kilometre tall skyscrapers around me.

So, 3 trillion is probably fairly realistic for a primitive, arcologyless single layered ecumenopolis, but it wouldn't cut the mustard for anything of Coruscant's calibre. Reminds me a lot of Midgar, actually, with it's little experiment in urban segregation.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya

Looking good. A few things ...

1. Since Telemedicine is taken out we need to make sure something represents it in Interactive Glass. Maybe a boost for Hospitals or something.

2. That's fine with moving things over. infact the Galactic Era got completely sewed when MrAzure move things. Check out my online tech tree on a possible way to fix the tech tree to be orderly again. Note that X106 to the end is the way it use to be and it would be nice to have them lined up again in that way even if we add other techs. X95 to X105 have spaces between them in case we need room however if we don't you can always squish them to the left again.

In short it would be great to have the Galactic Era not so spread out anymore since while sparse it was at least orderly before.

 

[Vokarya]

@Vokarya

Looking good. A few things ...

1. Since Telemedicine is taken out we need to make sure something represents it in Interactive Glass. Maybe a boost for Hospitals or something.

We have a lot of room to put in content now. I think we need to add content to other medical technologies first (especially Molecular Medicine and Genomic Health Care).

2. That's fine with moving things over. infact the Galactic Era got completely sewed when MrAzure move things. Check out my online tech tree on a possible way to fix the tech tree to be orderly again. Note that X106 to the end is the way it use to be and it would be nice to have them lined up again in that way even if we add other techs. X95 to X105 have spaces between them in case we need room however if we don't you can always squish them to the left again.

In short it would be great to have the Galactic Era not so spread out anymore since while sparse it was at least orderly before.

Right now, the Galactic Era begins at X99. I would like to leave X95 and X96 open for Lunar technologies. We haven't added any new Galactic Era technologies to the XML yet, so that's still the way it always has been. We just moved things around to add lots of space. Once we figure out exactly what we want in the Galactic Era, we can then move techs backward to fill the empty space.

 

[ls612]

3 trillion people stretched across the land area of Earth would be around 20,000 people per square kilometre. So, all of Coruscant would be twice as dense as New York City. This sounds impressive, until you factor in the fact that the entire planet is covered; stretching NYC across the entire planet gives you 5 trillion, and naturally doubling that gets you 10. Then you figure in the fact that Coruscant has at least 50 levels of kilometres-tall skyscrapers, probably much more, and that it's been that way for at least 100,000 years, 4 times older than the Republic and hyperdrive itself. Taking 50 as a bare minimum (probably an exceedingly conservative estimate, given we know Coruscant is larger than Earth and that these lowest layers are merely the lowest fifty, permanently sunless layers) gives up 500 trillion people. 6 billion isn't even a bad joke (a slight at the writers, not the poster); our world has more than that, and I'm not seeing kilometre tall skyscrapers around me.

So, 3 trillion is probably fairly realistic for a primitive, arcologyless single layered ecumenopolis, but it wouldn't cut the mustard for anything of Coruscant's calibre. Reminds me a lot of Midgar, actually, with it's little experiment in urban segregation.

Well, I figure that by the later Galactic Era your home planet will be very much like Coruscant, if not even more advanced in terms of technology and development. An Arcology to me seems like a very advanced colonization mechanism, not the future of Galactic Urbanization. (also, we need an Ecumenopolis tech in the Galactic Era, but that is a long ways down the road).

 

[Daedwartin]

3 trillion people stretched across the land area of Earth would be around 20,000 people per square kilometre. So, all of Coruscant would be twice as dense as New York City. This sounds impressive, until you factor in the fact that the entire planet is covered; stretching NYC across the entire planet gives you 5 trillion, and naturally doubling that gets you 10. Then you figure in the fact that Coruscant has at least 50 levels of kilometres-tall skyscrapers, probably much more, and that it's been that way for at least 100,000 years, 4 times older than the Republic and hyperdrive itself. Taking 50 as a bare minimum (probably an exceedingly conservative estimate, given we know Coruscant is larger than Earth and that these lowest layers are merely the lowest fifty, permanently sunless layers) gives up 500 trillion people. 6 billion isn't even a bad joke (a slight at the writers, not the poster); our world has more than that, and I'm not seeing kilometre tall skyscrapers around me.

So, 3 trillion is probably fairly realistic for a primitive, arcologyless single layered ecumenopolis, but it wouldn't cut the mustard for anything of Coruscant's calibre. Reminds me a lot of Midgar, actually, with it's little experiment in urban segregation.

Well, in Star Wars, only Fondor has a excuse for its unbelievably small population. Planets like Corusant should have a much larger population then it does. However, Corusant is a City planet. Fondor is just one planet sized factory. That is almost completely automated. their is several layers of superiority in authority among the machines themselves. The population is only composed of spaceport employees, a executive here or there, factory managers, and mechanics. Also, the production lines themselves are capable of developing ingenuous improvements to what they build as well. I MEANT IT WHEN I SAID EXTREMELY AUTOMATED. And i wouldn't be half surprised if the repair process was extremely automated itself. think WALL-E, but more with even more automation. and their job isn't to serve your petty desires. But to be a industrial monster.
Its also naturally a polluted clogged place, but not as bad as most locations, as it doesn't have to support a very large population (in star wars terms that is). they have the tech to break down pollution WHILE its in atmosphere in Star Wars. if they didn't, Corusant be one dead planet...
Also, the periods Corusant had 10 billion people total on it were EXTREMELY BAD TIMES. just about everyone wanted to get way.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

No problem. I'll toss both of them.

Now, we need new prerequisites for Wireless Electricity. The current set was Blue Electromagnetic Pulse + Intelligent Pavement + Sophisticated Lasers, all of which are gone. The most previous set is Holographics + Nanogenerators + Sophisticated Lasers. Do you think Holographics + Nanogenerators is enough?

Electricity was originally going to be distributed wirelessly but Edison and Tesla could not figure out how to charge for it. Also it dissapates over a short distance. You can see wireless electricity, just wave a flouro tube under hi-transmission lines.

 

[ls612]

We have a lot of room to put in content now. I think we need to add content to other medical technologies first (especially Molecular Medicine and Genomic Health Care).



Right now, the Galactic Era begins at X99. I would like to leave X95 and X96 open for Lunar technologies. We haven't added any new Galactic Era technologies to the XML yet, so that's still the way it always has been. We just moved things around to add lots of space. Once we figure out exactly what we want in the Galactic Era, we can then move techs backward to fill the empty space.

The lunar techs should come earlier in the TH era. That was the whole plan, that colonization of Mars and mining on the Moon would come in the TH era, and exploration of other star systems would come in the Galactic Era.

 

[Daedwartin]

The lunar techs should come earlier in the TH era. That was the whole plan, that colonization of Mars and mining on the Moon would come in the TH era, and exploration of other star systems would come in the Galactic Era.

And backed by reality. The only reasons why we haven't colonized the moon yet are politics and the arbitrary idea known as money. WE have the technology to start a lunar colony already. It's just expensive and therefor not poltically attractive.

 

[ls612]

And backed by reality. The only reasons why we haven't colonized the moon yet are politics and the arbitrary idea known as money. WE have the technology to start a lunar colony already. It's just expensive and therefor not poltically attractive.

Or a good economic deal. It would need to produce more than the cost to start one for anyone to seriously consider building a lunar colony.

 

[Daedwartin]

Or a good economic deal. It would need to produce more than the cost to start one for anyone to seriously consider building a lunar colony.

There is large quanties it is believed of Helium-3, which is believed to potentially make a excellent fuel for fusion. AND has very important medical uses. The only source of helium three here on earth is Literally from dismantling hydrogen bombs. And selling the tritium and helium-3 contained with-in...this is problematic because It's used for brain scans, medical lung imaging, and Has potential in cyrogenics and fusion. And the military is dismantling less and less warheads each year, so the supply has started to dwindle. As its demand Just keeps climbing globally. If we manage to get fusion working with helium-3, it will end up skyrocketing. It would give a colony a good chance of paying for itself in one shipment potentially.

 

[Daedwartin]

There is large quanties it is believed of Helium-3, which is believed to potentially make a excellent fuel for fusion. AND has very important medical uses. The only source of helium three here on earth is Literally from dismantling hydrogen bombs. And selling the tritium and helium-3 contained with-in...this is problematic because It's used for brain scans, medical lung imaging, and Has potential in cyrogenics and fusion. And the military is dismantling less and less warheads each year, so the supply has started to dwindle. As its demand Just keeps climbing globally. If we manage to get fusion working with helium-3, it will end up skyrocketing. It would give a colony a good chance of paying for itself in one shipment potentially.

Although, are we going to include the possibility of the home world having non-Luna like moons?

 

[Vokarya]

The lunar techs should come earlier in the TH era. That was the whole plan, that colonization of Mars and mining on the Moon would come in the TH era, and exploration of other star systems would come in the Galactic Era.

I'm working on that now. What I am trying to do is see which Galactic Era techs are prerequisites and see if those can be replaced by other technologies. I'd like to move Asteroid Extraction into the Transhuman Era and rename it to Asteroid Mining.

Do you want to keep the Advanced Environmental Systems requirement for the Lunar techs? That tech is at the very end of the Transhuman Era. Advanced Environmental Systems' XML name is Space Colonies, so I guess it was intended to be large orbital habitats.

 

[ls612]

I'm working on that now. What I am trying to do is see which Galactic Era techs are prerequisites and see if those can be replaced by other technologies. I'd like to move Asteroid Extraction into the Transhuman Era and rename it to Asteroid Mining.

Do you want to keep the Advanced Environmental Systems requirement for the Lunar techs? That tech is at the very end of the Transhuman Era. Advanced Environmental Systems' XML name is Space Colonies, so I guess it was intended to be large orbital habitats.

Yes, so that tech as well should be a) renamed to Advanced Environmental Systems and b) moved to be a prereq for Lunar and Martian colonization.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya & ls612

The more I look over the techs the more I think that Lunar Colonization is actually in the right spot. The techs that lead to it make sense and its not like you cannot explore the Moon before that. Unless you guys can come up with a better proposal I think its actually good to have the Lunar stuff start at the very beginning of the Galactic Era.

 

[ls612]

@Vokarya & ls612

The more I look over the techs the more I think that Lunar Colonization is actually in the right spot. The techs that lead to it make sense and its not like you cannot explore the Moon before that. Unless you guys can come up with a better proposal I think its actually good to have the Lunar stuff start at the very beginning of the Galactic Era.

Um, make a Lunar Mining tech and allow automated mines (controlled from earth, the delay is only a second). Does that sound OK?

 

[Hydromancerx]

From a game mechanics point of view how would that work? Like the forts on mines?