C2C - Units

[Sir Monster The Great]

Tanshumanism could allow the production of -Trans units. Trans, is an adjective describing organisms (humans, dogs, cats, monkeys, etc.), that have a majority of their biologic body parts replaced with artificial ones; 70-90% robotic/cyber 20-10% organic. -Borg needs no introduction; its half human (or dog, or dlophin or chimpanzee) half cyber.

 

[Sir Monster The Great]

Species Uplifting could allow some rather crazy units; as mentioned before, these start out as -Borg or Mecha units (Catborg, Monkeymech, Bridborg, etc), but can become Trans when you have the Transhumanism tech. These are more or less powerful upgrades of your -Borg units.

 

[Praetyre]

I'm not sure I'd agree with the concept of tanks being replaced by mechs. Maybe it's because one of the many influences for my conceptualization (more so the practical than the thematic) of the Transhuman/Near Future Era is the Command & Conquer: Tiberian Series, but I've always seen mechs, whatever their size (a legitimate question unto itself, and certainly one relevant to C2C) as fulfilling a seperate role from tanks. Certainly, there are inherent advantages to tread locomotion which alone would provide significant reason to keep them around (though you could make an argument hovering antigrav vehicles might replace both tanks and mechs at some point in the 22nd century or later).

I'm also not entirely sure on sea vessels being entirely superseded by space ones. Perhaps its the Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds influence on me, but why would they be superseded? Are you (Hydro) thinking that spaceships could operate on and underwater as well as in air/space?

Space superseding air, though, I can see a stronger case for.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I have ideas and I think even some old notes somewhere on this forum.

There's always room to discuss out any concept and try to get it placed where it should be and along what upgrade path(s).

I was talking about later era units with a friend last night. And they asked if the tanks upgrade to giant robots. I kinda like the idea.

We do have Mechs and Robots, not that they completely obsolete tank line units, which, as Praetyre points out, maintains their own independant validity throughout many eras to come, particularly with hover and anti-grav capabilities eventually.

Currently robots are 'better' than mechs, but I really think that Mechs and Robots should be their own upgrade paths that leapfrog each other in power upgrades. One line shouldn't upgrade into another with any assumption that it's better to have Human or AI command over the vessel - critical for the Rise of the Machines and for the manner in which Diseases at warfare interact (some targeting humans and others targeting AI). Some transformative abilities at various degrees of utility would gradually work their way into the abilities of both Robotics and Mecha. We'd also have biological forces and more simplistic vehicular forces that play their own roles. And the vast variety of weapon utilities would play a huge role here.

But I am not sure. We for sure need to have the sea ships upgrade into spaceships.

I'm not sure I'd agree with the concept of tanks being replaced by mechs. Maybe it's because one of the many influences for my conceptualization (more so the practical than the thematic) of the Transhuman/Near Future Era is the Command & Conquer: Tiberian Series, but I've always seen mechs, whatever their size (a legitimate question unto itself, and certainly one relevant to C2C) as fulfilling a seperate role from tanks. Certainly, there are inherent advantages to tread locomotion which alone would provide significant reason to keep them around (though you could make an argument hovering antigrav vehicles might replace both tanks and mechs at some point in the 22nd century or later).

I'm also not entirely sure on sea vessels being entirely superseded by space ones. Perhaps its the Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds influence on me, but why would they be superseded? Are you (Hydro) thinking that spaceships could operate on and underwater as well as in air/space?

Space superseding air, though, I can see a stronger case for.

I envisioned the Naval Ships always tending to stay within bounds of planetary/solar system boundaries, whereas true deep space ships are rarely made or intended to go down to a planetary level but then you have space fighter and bomber type craft that are useful along with both but aren't really intended for underwater usage so much. These are also the kinds of craft that transformative mechs and robotics may choose to switch between to match current needs. Eventually these kinds of craft start becoming more universal still later on.

There are lots of techs that are begging for new combat units ...

Galactic Era
- Weaponized Disintegration
- Weaponized Gravity Fields
- Weaponized Antimatter
- Phasing

Cosmic Era
- Galactic Warfare
- Wave Motion Gun
- Transverse Euclidean Geometry (4D Units)

Transcendent Era
- Cosmic Warfare

Most of these I added myself and do plan to include into the weapon combat systems. There are yet more that need deeper inclusion still.

I'm not sure what the intention of the Wave Motion weaponry is though...

There's also psychic (Telekinetics/Telepathic) weaponry systems, both technological and biological in origin and basis. And sound weapons. All kinds of energy shieldings. It's gonna get very interesting - nothing at all related to a raw power vs power and far more about what KIND of weapons you bring to bear against what KIND of unit base definitions and defensive systems.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Species Uplifting could allow some rather crazy units; as mentioned before, these start out as -Borg or Mecha units (Catborg, Monkeymech, Bridborg, etc), but can become Trans when you have the Transhumanism tech. These are more or less powerful upgrades of your -Borg units.

If you get the Sentient Dolphin culture then you can make Dolphin mechs.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I'm not sure I'd agree with the concept of tanks being replaced by mechs. Maybe it's because one of the many influences for my conceptualization (more so the practical than the thematic) of the Transhuman/Near Future Era is the Command & Conquer: Tiberian Series, but I've always seen mechs, whatever their size (a legitimate question unto itself, and certainly one relevant to C2C) as fulfilling a seperate role from tanks. Certainly, there are inherent advantages to tread locomotion which alone would provide significant reason to keep them around (though you could make an argument hovering antigrav vehicles might replace both tanks and mechs at some point in the 22nd century or later).

I'm also not entirely sure on sea vessels being entirely superseded by space ones. Perhaps its the Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds influence on me, but why would they be superseded? Are you (Hydro) thinking that spaceships could operate on and underwater as well as in air/space?

Space superseding air, though, I can see a stronger case for.

I should be more clear sorry. I think he was thinking about like Gundam style mechs. Basically giant robot space suits.

But yeah i don't know. It would be cool to have tanks be able to upgrade to something that can go into space.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It would be cool to have tanks be able to upgrade to something that can go into space.

Levitation tanks are already planned aren't they?

 

[pepper2000]

I'm thinking we need a better name for "Wave Motion Gun". That is basically where Death Star-type weapons come out.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm thinking we need a better name for "Wave Motion Gun". That is basically where Death Star-type weapons come out.

Then I would strongly agree with you. Is this an advanced form of high powered disintegration basically? Is this after the kind of Red Matter tech from the first of the Star Trek reboot movies where we're leaving a small (a debateworthy thing to potentially even exist) singularity (black hole)? Or is it more just a really really powerful beam weapon? What's the motivation to call it a Wave Motion Gun? Are you basically just jiggling the planet apart at the molecular level or turning it to energy or just shattering it? Global Deconstruction Beams perhaps? Global Attomization Rays?

 

[Faustmouse]

In a game I used to play as a kid (Ogame), the deathstar weapon was discriped as graviton beam.

 

[Taxman66]

The term "Wave Motion Gun" originates from a show called "Star Blazers". Not sure what the original Japanese show's name was. The show aired in the late 70s in the USA.

The weapon was basically a powerful beam weapon that traversed the kiel/spine of the converted WW2 battleship to spaceship it was mounted on.

 

[pepper2000]

I don't have a good idea for a better name, so if someone else does and you want to go into the SVN and change it, go right ahead.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well... the question is, on a physics level, how does the weapon damage its target? What is it actually doing to it?

 

[pepper2000]

I think of it as electromagnetic. It is still basically the same weapon as a laser; just a ****-ton of it.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Techwise is this pre or post disintegration tech?

I like electromagnetic... We havent explored that potential much yet...

 

[pepper2000]

Well after Weaponized Disintegration. It is early Cosmic Era.

 

[Taxman66]

gFYI from the Wiki for Space Ship Yamamoto (the original Japanese name of the series):

The Wave Motion Gun (波動砲, hadō hō ?): the "trump card" of the Yamato, the Wave Motion Gun functions by connecting the Wave Motion Engine to the enormous firing gate at the ship's bow, enabling the tachyon energy power of the engine to be fired in a stream directly forwards. Enormously powerful, it can vapourise a fleet of enemy ships with one shot; however, it takes a brief but critical period to charge before firing. It also requires all non-essential power systems be deactivated, and leaves the ship powerless and adrift for a short time after firing, though these aspects are not dwelled upon after the initial test in Jupiter's atmosphere. The recoil absorption mechanism can be manually deactivated with a lever; this is used to save the ship on one occasion.

The Wave Motion Gun also appears in the game Space Empires V (and maybe the earlier versions) as the final end tech of 'normal damage' Beam Weapons. Actually that game has some rather neat ideas for weapons and other systems.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The Wave Motion Gun also appears in the game Space Empires V (and maybe the earlier versions) as the final end tech of 'normal damage' Beam Weapons. Actually that game has some rather neat ideas for weapons and other systems.

Do share!

The Wave Motion Gun (波動砲, hadō hō ?): the "trump card" of the Yamato, the Wave Motion Gun functions by connecting the Wave Motion Engine to the enormous firing gate at the ship's bow, enabling the tachyon energy power of the engine to be fired in a stream directly forwards.

Hmm... Tachyon beams would be quite interesting and new. Perhaps not THAT new, as it is basically just a particle beam weapon, but the difference if we're talking about a focused TACHYON beam, would be that it can back up time, aka, it could destroy a foe that just hit you before the foe actually hit you, retroactively changing the fate of battle. This could even be represented in the game code, making a tachyon armed weapon system capable of making the victor who used it less likely to leave the battle with as much damage. Could also help with accuracy, as you can aim at a spot where you knew the enemy to be as long as you knew exactly when the enemy was there and have the timing down to hit them at that location... hindsight accuracy is 20/20 rather than guessing that they will likely be at a particular spot in the immediate future.

I like it but it doesn't sound like the planet destroying force we're talking about. But as a very interesting upgrade to the particle beam cannons.


As for this...

In a game I used to play as a kid (Ogame), the deathstar weapon was discriped as graviton beam.

I like the concept of a Graviton Beam, perhaps a beam weapon that causes the individual atoms of whatever body it strikes to suddenly project a gravitational repellant force, thus shattering whatever it strikes, no matter how large it may be (up to the limit of the energy that goes into the beam) to split into its individual atoms and scatter across space until the energy diffuses back into the zero point void and the atoms begin to act according to normal gravitational physics. This would put a planet back into a state of primordial dust (and it could also be a great new way to mine... turn your mined region to dust and then just sort the dust by any number of means.

This would be a little different from disintegration, which pretty much just causes all atoms in the beam's path (the primary distinction) to simply lose any bonding power and thus basically makes all it touches just crumble to atomic dust. You could dig a deep hole this way but it would be almost impossible to destroy a planet this way. And there could be things that resist this that don't resist the Graviton Beam.

Ok... that seems to fit for me. It's also more powerful that localized gravity field manipulations to crush and tear apart. So, yeah, it has cause to be considered more advanced than anything I'd planned for up to this point.

 

[Faustmouse]

I don't believe in Tachyons, but what you discribe sounds like a good explaination for a weapon category type.

The Graviton beam however won't cause atoms to repell each other as gravitation is HORRIBLY weak (like the whole earth pulls a magnet but you need only another tiny magnet to lift it up). Gravitation plays next to no role in binding of atoms. Were it plays a strong role is if distances are VERY tiny, at the very bottom of the quantum level. Thus it would more likely rip protons and neutrons apart, so it is not usefull for mining stuff

 

[Thunderbrd]

I don't believe in Tachyons

I was going to challenge this because I don't think this is all that 'theoretical' so much as an observed submolecular particle/behavior. But then again, I also have my own views on how illogical I believe the conclusions that bring us to the assumption that Dark Matter exists are and that reminds me that we all come to our conclusions for our own logical reasons. I suppose by that logic that causes one to doubt in the existence of tachyons, though, you don't believe time travel is possible at all? There is a logical line of thought that states time is not a measurement in physical space so much as it is that reality only exists in the present moment and all past and future do not exist at all, only an ever changing now. I don't agree with this line of thinking but I see it as logical at least.

My reason for this disagreement is simple: We have not yet found that much of anything we've been able to imagine cannot be achieved somehow. I believe that the source of imagination was the source of the structure of the definition of the physical dynamics in the universe and thus... if we can imagine it, it can happen. There is truly nothing that is impossible as long as the imagination can swallow the concept. Until we find how it is MADE possible, we are left to search for the method our imagination informs us can be found.

The Graviton beam however won't cause atoms to repell each other as gravitation is HORRIBLY weak (like the whole earth pulls a magnet but you need only another tiny magnet to lift it up). Gravitation plays next to no role in binding of atoms. Were it plays a strong role is if distances are VERY tiny, at the very bottom of the quantum level. Thus it would more likely rip protons and neutrons apart, so it is not usefull for mining stuff

You make some good points... but what we have not really seen experienced is an inverse gravitational force... as we can observe it so far, we can only see it to be a pulling force. But we know magnetism can be completely inverted and the concept of an inverted mass to all things WOULD tear apart a planet, though I suppose it wouldn't really dust it down to a molecular level as expressed earlier... it would just tear itself apart as it tried to get away from everything it used to be as one unified whole. Not even all that damaging to a person, but tremendously devastating to a planet...