C3C v1.22 patch (standalone) is out!!!

[Andi]

C3C 1.22 & MPTournament

I'm playing lots of MP games, usually we played C3C MP with the Tournament Mode, because of increased resource appearence ratio.

And with 1.22 there were mad many goods changes (e.g. enkidu cost raised to 15, map trading moved back to map making...)
But one change seems to be very bad
All maps within MPTournament seem to be with ocean 40% - so maps are much to large for an interesting game. (Original note from the change log: * MPTournament: Map sets Oceans to 40%) Why was this set to such a low value, without having the chance to play normal 70%
Even Tiny, Archipel and 80% water always generates a map like this (see attachment):

But what could we do - i found no settings in the editor to change that...

 

[JazzToucan]

From my understanding the only significant change from 1.15 to 1.22 in terms of single player games is the removal of radio.

Unless you play on the net, why bother?

 

[SirPleb]

Something else learned: we can now deduce that Firaxis does little or no automated regression testing. Surprising but explains some things. (If they did, backward compatibility in saves would be an internal requirement for their own purposes even before considering user needs. And a failure to maintain it would not get to production.)

 

[zurichuk]

Originally posted by SirPleb
If it is the case that pre-1.22 saves cannot be loaded in 1.22 then I think that's the last straw regarding the Radio change. Backward compatibility is not a small issue, it should be a given in any software release! The ability to load old saves is important, both for continuing in-progress games and for the ability to download posts from the past (e.g. HOF games at CivFanatics) and to view them.

If pre-1.22 games can't be loaded then I think the best thing would be a 1.23 patch which puts Radio back in. And does nothing else at all, unless there's something else which must also be undone to make loading previous saves compatible. I hope Firaxis will consider doing this.

i think they need to do something, not only for the HOF but it is also causing absolute chaos and mass discontent in the PBEM world, it's bad enough co-ordinating many players without having to co-ordinate their pcs as well

edited for drunken typing

 

[Thunderfall]

Originally posted by SirPleb
If it is the case that pre-1.22 saves cannot be loaded in 1.22 then I think that's the last straw regarding the Radio change. Backward compatibility is not a small issue, it should be a given in any software release! The ability to load old saves is important, both for continuing in-progress games and for the ability to download posts from the past (e.g. HOF games at CivFanatics) and to view them.

I asked Jesse about that and he said it's the PBEM fix that causes the saved game incompatibilty, not removal of Radio.

I haven't played any PBEM game and don't think it's worth it to sacrifice saved game compatibility for PBEM fix. Backward compatibility is something everyone can use, while PBEM fix only affects PBEM players. The needs of the many should outweigh the needs of the few. [Of course, it would be nice to have both if possible.]

Backward compatibility is important and I hope to see it return in a future patch.

 

[alexman]

The PBEM fix causes forward incompatibility, not backward incompatibility, and it was done on purpose, to limit cheating (otherwise you could use a previous version of C3C to see other players' information and the new PBEM fixes would be pointless).

The backward incompatibility is because the saves of unmodded games don't contain biq information. So when you load a save that has Radio information, the executable doesn't know what to do with it because there is no such tech defined in conquests.biq.

 

[Thunderfall]

Originally posted by alexman
The backward incompatibility is because the saves of unmodded games don't contain biq information. So when you load a save that has Radio information, the executable doesn't know what to do with it because there is no such tech defined in conquests.biq.

hmm... if that's the case, then I see no reason not to put Radio back in.

 

[SirPleb]

Originally posted by alexman
The backward incompatibility is because the saves of unmodded games don't contain biq information. So when you load a save that has Radio information, the executable doesn't know what to do with it because there is no such tech defined in conquests.biq.

So the best (only?) fix to make it all work would seem to be to reinstate Radio until such time as they can reapply the changes from long ago which included this info in the saves, and only after refixing that consider any change to the tech tree. (If even then )

 

[Commander Bello]

I think I have to be very careful with my statements now...

I understand that developers do their testing in some kind of "artificial" surrounding, which simulates but doesn't equal the "real world" of players with all their different requirement.

For that, when trying to fix this annoying PBEM bug (which you could make use of even unvolunteeringly) they very well may have missed all potential consequences.

Taking into account the last postings in this thread I would like to agree with SirPleb. It seems to be best to reimplement the radio for full compatibility with old games.
About the loading feature for PBEMs, maybe there would be a chance to modify the new "barrier" in such a way that only games with more than one human player are not loadable in 1.22? (Currently, I am not sure about if this would solve the problem).

Anyway, as far as I understand the whole thing by now, this change will cause massive problems for all modders, for everyone who likes to get into old games and perhaps for some combinations in the game/surroundings anybody has not yet thought about.

*If* there would be some thinking about re-changing it, they should announce this very soon, as I could imagine that currently quite some people are changing their mods to make them work with that patch. So, at least the modders community should be given quick and reliable information about what will be the path for the future.
To be honest, at the moment I'm a little bit confused about which item of patch 1.22 causes which problem/incompatibility.

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

Are we sure radio was removed to fix something? or was it just someones personal agenda?

 

[Chris1111]

Something Im confused about with patch. If I use the option to shut off scientific leaders does that mean I will be able to build wonders again with military leaders? Or do I have to mod that in?

 

[Loopy]

IMNSHO, Firaxis should have just left Radio in and significantly dropped its cost down (to next to nothing?). Move the radar towers and the like around, but leaving the tech itself in and letting any one research it in 4 turns would probably have made a better fix than eliminating it.

Anyways, I'm glad I didn't install 1.20 and I'll probably just stick with 1.15 until the dust settles.

 

[Colonel Kraken]

I haven't been keeping up too much on the inside story of what's going on with the patches. With this release of a new patch, I wanted to find out what the hubbub is all about, but I'll be danged if I can find a posting of a readme anywhere. I don't want to have to download that fat mother of a patch just to get the readme.

Can someone please help me out here?

Thanks,

CK

 

[player1 fanatic]

Just check at www.firaxis.com and then downloads section.

Select 1.22 and you'll find readme.

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by player1 fanatic
Just check at www.firaxis.com and then downloads section.

Select 1.22 and you'll find readme.

Rock on! Thanks.

--CK

 

[madman1981]

I assume this is the exact same updates as the 1.22 update patch? So no need to do anything when I already have that one?

 

[TerraHero]

This stand-alone basicly means u dun ahve to get 1.20 first i think..so they took the liberty of saving us those 5min of DL time

but untill we get any reall or important or actually fix to a big-bug i'll stick with 1.15 thank u very much

 

[player1 fanatic]

I like RRs to function properly.

That's why I need 1.22

 

[digger760]

hmm the download says its 24meg but at firaxis i downloaded 4.7Meg and from CFC it downloaded 3.9Meg. hav'nt tried to install it yet. Did anybody else notice this?

 

[Commander Bello]

I've downloaded, yet not installed it and it was 23,6 MB, IIRC