Cain's 9/9/9 plan

I believe that capital gains shouldn't be taxed at all. :)


And that might be acceptable to the extent that the proposal was neutral in terms of both revenue and progressivity. But for most people, the proposal to not tax capital gains in zero sum game proposal to shift the tax burden onto people who do not receive capital gains.

Further, while I can see a decent argument for no capital gains tax on long term capital gains, the long term should be measured in decades. Not months or years. Certainly anything less than a year should be taxed at at least the marginal earned income tax rate. And preferably double that. I'd even settle for triple that. Put a stop to many of the Wall St casino games.
 
In British newspapers, when ever they discuss American politics they always note "middle class" is synonomous with the working class.
 
In British newspapers, when ever they discuss American politics they always note "middle class" is synonomous with the working class.


In the past, it largely was. Most people of the "working class" had incomes that allowed a lifestyle that had more in common with the more traditional "middle class" of professionals small business owners than it did with the working poor.
 
Yes, this has always been something that has disturbed me about American politics. Does "middle class" mean something different in the US or do people just not give a damn about the working class?

89% of the population identify themselves as middle class. (If you include upper-middle and lower-middle) Thus, there is no working class worth mentioning. :mischief:

Source: Pew Research Center
 
The problem with cap gains is that you have to pay them every time your sell or trade. Even if you trade one stock for another without selling anything, you have to pay captain gains. It just discourages people from trading. If they can work this out, I really think it should be treated the same as income.
 
The problem with cap gains is that you have to pay them every time your sell or trade. Even if you trade one stock for another without selling anything, you have to pay captain gains. It just discourages people from trading. If they can work this out, I really think it should be treated the same as income.
You have to pay the sales tax everytime you make a purchase. A worker pays income tax everytime they get a paycheck. Traders can handle it.
 
Will traders have to pay the 9% sales tax on all the cocaine they use?
 
I believe that capital gains shouldn't be taxed at all. :)

Really? I find this article completely misses the point. It finds fault with this :

…The very rich pay at significantly lower rates, because most of their income consists not of compensation for services but of capital gains and dividends, which are capped at a fifteen per cent rate.

and then tries to disprove the point by comparing two individuals who earn the exact same wage. :lol: That's an F for "missed the point" right away.

This line of argumentation ignores the fact that only the rich can afford to invest most of their money. It's easy to show that if you have a flat payroll tax and no capital gains tax you effectively have a regressive tax system.
 
The problem with cap gains is that you have to pay them every time your sell or trade. Even if you trade one stock for another without selling anything, you have to pay captain gains. It just discourages people from trading. If they can work this out, I really think it should be treated the same as income.

And that's bad why? :crazyeye:
 
Yeah, I'm not seeing the problem with taxing capital gains at the same rate that someone's paycheck is taxed at. Why should you get a break just because you buy and sell stock for a living instead of doing something else?
 
Really? I find this article completely misses the point. It finds fault with this :



and then tries to disprove the point by comparing two individuals who earn the exact same wage. :lol: That's an F for "missed the point" right away.

This line of argumentation ignores the fact that only the rich can afford to invest most of their money. It's easy to show that if you have a flat payroll tax and no capital gains tax you effectively have a regressive tax system.

Oh, I thought that article was a joke and didn't bother to post a response. The other scenario: what if you have inherited millions already invested?
 
Obama's a 1%er.
And he's one of the few of them who is apparently willing to pay taxes at the pre-GWB rate without incessantly whining about it.
 
Most of those in Congress are 1%ers themselves who sell their souls to even richer 1%ers to get there and stay there. They aren't about to raise their own tax rates and those of the people who control them unless they are forced to do so by their own constituents.

You can't negotiate with people who are that corrupt when you have no leverage.
 
Cain admitted today that some would pay more under 9-9-9, but he completely lied or misunderstood as to why. He said those that would pay more are those that chose to buy new goods rather than used goods. It ignores that by design, most people at the low-to-middle end would pay more (especially familes with children and a mortgage). Can't wait to buy used food to save on my taxes. Does Godfather's pizza count?

And if he admits that the way to save taxes is to not purchase new items, isn't that going to hurt our businesses rather than be stimulative?
 
I don't think he's as weak of a negotiator as he appears to be, I think he's batting for the other team.

your president did promise a more united states of america when he ran. but his soaring rhetoric of unity and cooperation problem may have meant a dogged willingness to cross the aisle 90% of the time though. :lol:
 
Posted on Wednesday, 10.12.11
Posted on Wednesday, 10.12.11

Cain's 9-9-9 plan: Good for the rich, bad for the poor
By STEVEN THOMMA
McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON -- Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain's proposed 9-9-9 tax plan would shift the tax burden in the United States, raising taxes on the poor while cutting taxes for the wealthy.

Cain proposes to scrap the current tax code and replace it with a flat 9 percent tax on personal income, a second 9 percent tax on corporate income, and a third 9 percent tax on sales. It also would eliminate the payroll tax, which funds Medicare and Social Security; the estate tax; and capital gains taxes.

While the Cain campaign has not produced enough details for thorough independent analysis, a flat 9 percent income tax and a 9 percent national sales tax would almost certainly mean higher taxes for at least the 30 million U.S. households that now pay no federal taxes.

And it almost certainly would mean big tax cuts for the wealthy, who now pay a 35 percent marginal rate on their income above $379,150.

The catchy 9-9-9 tax plan has helped the former Godfathers Pizza CEO surge into the top tier contending for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination. With his rising support, Cain's plan is drawing more scrutiny, with the potential shift of the tax burden just one of the profound effects the dramatic change in tax policy could have - if Cain were elected and managed somehow to get it past an army of lobbyists and through Congress to enactment.

Ultimately, in a second phase, Cain's plan would eliminate all income taxes for individuals and for corporations in favor of a national sales tax. To raise sufficient money to fund the government, the sales tax rate would rise significantly, perhaps to 23 percent, analysts estimate, though Cain hasn't specified a level yet.

The changes in income taxes would turn away from the progressive tax policy that's shaped U.S. policy for a century, based on the principle that the wealthier people are, the more they can afford to pay in taxes to the society that's enriched them.

"The plan could be expected to raise substantial amounts of revenue, but does so largely by skewing downwards the distribution of tax burdens," said a new analysis of the Cain plan this week by Edward D. Kleinbard, a professor of tax law at the University of Southern California. He's also a former chief of staff at the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation, which analyzes all tax legislation for Congress. "The 9-9-9 Plan would materially raise the tax burden on many low- and middle-income taxpayers."


Others agree.

"It's regressive, relative to what we have now," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center, a joint effort of the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution, center-left policy-research centers. "It would raise taxes for people at the bottom and lower taxes at the top end."

Cain has insisted it would not hurt poorer Americans, in large part because he would eliminate the payroll tax. But nearly 30 million households - about 18 percent - pay neither income taxes nor the FICA payroll tax, according to Williams. Most would pay more, perhaps much more.

Cain proposes to levy the 9 percent flat tax on all income after allowing an undetermined amount of charitable contributions to be deducted. He also would create "empowerment zones" where people would have additional deductions.

People with lower incomes also would pay a disproportionate share of their income in sales taxes, because they spend much more of their income on retail goods.


Rest of article can be found HERE


So the more people get a look at the plan, the more it's obviously just more Supply Side fraud.
 
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