Call To Arms: CBO Weekly Civ Challenge

Netherlands, Emperor, standard, Communitas/continents, RA's, no tech trading:

230 turns in:

I started on a corner of a continent much like Spain (if the Pyrenees were hills), and decided to stay behind this barrier on a continent with Babylon, the Mongols, the Shoshone and Sweden. My first decision was to bypass religion and take God of All Creation instead. I had room for 5 very secure and feature-laden cities (a copper monopoly), and skipping religion allowed me to reach 5 more slowly than usual, and thus pick up more than my share of Wonders (partly because I was at the top of the Policy rankings, partly because I traded for luxuries relentlessly). This wound up giving me Halicarnassus, Artemis, Hanging Gardens and then the Oracle in Amsterdam early on, as well as Petra elsewhere.

I couldn't resist stealing a Babylonian worker early on, which led to a series of wars with what turned out to be the score leader. Babylon was on the verge of hitting runaway status -- they went Authority (note: Gazebo) and were 6 techs ahead of me at one point -- but couldn't get anywhere with their invasions (zero melee, Skirmishers, Knights and ranged). In the process we denounced each other, and the rest of the country slowly turned against Babylon as well. I turned the tide with the arrival of the Sea Beggars just as Babylon invaded again. This gave me a caravel and four galleys. By now everyone was nibbling on Babylon, and they were starting to slide. I bided my time until I reached Navigation (spies helped get there), and used them to break Babylon (and take away one of their coasts). Two GG's also won me the Babylonian iron monopoly (!) setting me up for cruisers in the future.

Amsterdam has six polders, but there's not another river in the Netherlands, so I'm not growing all that much. It doesn't seem to matter, though: I lead techs and Policies by 2, and am in the middle militarily. I also got the Tower of Pisa, Chichen Itza, and the Porcelain Tower (3 friends). Venice is the score leader with 11 cities -- germany's their vassl, and neighbo Spain ranks second. I figure Spain will self-destruct, so my goal now is to turn the world against them and liberate half their empire before I lose my naval edge. They already denounced me, since we both chose Statecraft. I'm now 2 policies into Rationalism, as I go for a SV.
 
Txurce said:
Netherlands, Emperor, standard, Communitas/continents, RA's, no tech trading:

230 turns in:

I started on a corner of a continent much like Spain (if the Pyrenees were hills), and decided to stay behind this barrier on a continent with Babylon, the Mongols, the Shoshone and Sweden. My first decision was to bypass religion and take God of All Creation instead. I had room for 5 very secure and feature-laden cities (a copper monopoly), and skipping religion allowed me to reach 5 more slowly than usual, and thus pick up more than my share of Wonders (partly because I was at the top of the Policy rankings, partly because I traded for luxuries relentlessly). This wound up giving me Halicarnassus, Artemis, Hanging Gardens and then the Oracle in Amsterdam early on, as well as Petra elsewhere.

I couldn't resist stealing a Babylonian worker early on, which led to a series of wars with what turned out to be the score leader. Babylon was on the verge of hitting runaway status -- they went Authority (note: Gazebo) and were 6 techs ahead of me at one point -- but couldn't get anywhere with their invasions (zero melee, Skirmishers, Knights and ranged). In the process we denounced each other, and the rest of the country slowly turned against Babylon as well. I turned the tide with the arrival of the Sea Beggars just as Babylon invaded again. This gave me a caravel and four galleys. By now everyone was nibbling on Babylon, and they were starting to slide. I bided my time until I reached Navigation (spies helped get there), and used them to break Babylon (and take away one of their coasts). Two GG's also won me the Babylonian iron monopoly (!) setting me up for cruisers in the future.

Amsterdam has six polders, but there's not another river in the Netherlands, so I'm not growing all that much. It doesn't seem to matter, though: I lead techs and Policies by 2, and am in the middle militarily. I also got the Tower of Pisa, Chichen Itza, and the Porcelain Tower (3 friends). Venice is the score leader with 11 cities -- germany's their vassl, and neighbo Spain ranks second. I figure Spain will self-destruct, so my goal now is to turn the world against them and liberate half their empire before I lose my naval edge. They already denounced me, since we both chose Statecraft. I'm now 2 policies into Rationalism, as I go for a SV.
Click to expand...

How's the luxury minigame working out for you?

G
 
Gazebo said:
How's the luxury minigame working out for you?

G
Click to expand...

I haven't been able to corner a new luxury monopoly, although now that I just upgraded to cruisers, I can focus my gold there. In the meantime, I have focused on taking away monopolies, though! I can't tell if it's working, as it's not announced, but no reason why it couldn't, right?
 
Txurce said:
I haven't been able to corner a new luxury monopoly, although now that I just upgraded to cruisers, I can focus my gold there. In the meantime, I have focused on taking away monopolies, though! I can't tell if it's working, as it's not announced, but no reason why it couldn't, right?
Click to expand...

You don't siphon like that, as players still get monopolies counting for exports. You could only 'steal' if you had an amount after purchase that put your % above theirs.

G
 
I have an idea what could also be a part of these (bi)weekly challenges -> a while ago, Gazebo posted a save of an interesting game around the industrial/atomic era (iirc) so we could try to play as one of the civs. Perhaps players here could post their saves at interesting points in a game and challenge us to win (perhaps via a specific victory condition).
 
LukaSlovenia29 said:
I have an idea what could also be a part of these (bi)weekly challenges -> a while ago, Gazebo posted a save of an interesting game around the industrial/atomic era (iirc) so we could try to play as one of the civs. Perhaps players here could post their saves at interesting points in a game and challenge us to win (perhaps via a specific victory condition).
Click to expand...

I am forbidden from getting involved in His Funakiness's Weeklye Challenges, lest I risk my own demesne. :)

G
 
I finished my game (start detailed above), coasting to an easy SV. The Dutch had 4 cities throughout (2 puppets late just to snag a third monopoly), but used the head start God of All Creation gave to pull ahead on SP's, rack up 20 Wonders,and stay there (2 ahead almost throughout). The Dutch economic advantage gave me gold throughout, and made my eventual 15-tech lead at the end seem like an afterthought.

What stood out as unusual was skipping my own religion, then picking up the Festivals pantheon from my adopted religion, as well as Cooperation and To the Glory of God. I had to quell other religions in order to keep this, but obviously it was worth it. The second half of the game had more wars than necessary as I used my naval tech advantage to knock down any nearby non-friendlies. Going Tradition/Statecraft/Rationalism also gave me a lot of control of the WC, which kept the entire game on its rails. By the end my warmongering led to 4 civs DoWing me, but it was on the turn I bought my last SS part.

The most difficult problem I had was the unit supply cap, which I never got past 21, despite building most standard buildings. In retrospect, I should have beelined for Brandenburg. As a result, my pop and production were stunted the last half of the game... not that it mattered. The Netherlands look very strong if played as they are meant to be played.
 
My game as the Netherlands is perhaps the strangest game I've ever had

I started in tundra with a serious lack of anything useful. I couldn't find a way to settle coastal without just screwing my start, so my capital is inland but has 3 fish. My start remains awful, with no ruins found and terrible land. But I did get the tundra pantheon, and I have 5 mines which qualify in my capital, 4 of which are copper. So I get the statue of zeus, and now I have a ridiculous amount of hammers. But I don't even have anywhere to put settlers, I got forward settled and already claimed the only other reasonable spot. I could try to take France's city, but I have no strategic resources, we are really good friends (so much trade) and its going to be a tough fight.

Instead I spam archers to gift to Ife, and manage to friend him for a little bit of faith. I barely get a religion, and take mastery.

Carthage and France are at eternal war, and I still haven't found the other continents. Despite France reaching 3 social policies before I got my first, I'm now ahead of him. After the Oracle I'm 3 policies ahead, and I still lead the world in produciton with only 2 cities. But I still feel like my empire sucks, cause its just two cities, I can't even build the grand temple due to lack of population. I manage to get University of Sankore, I'll try to Hagia next session.

I really don't know if I'm doing well, like my culture is like record setting good, my science is good, my production is still number one. But I only have 2 cities and almost no military...
Anyways its a fun game and cool civ
 
Netherlands, Emperor, standard speed, large, Communitas, RA's, no tech trading, Unique City-States, World Congress Reformation

I started on plains, with lots of river tiles near my capital and the lands around. An incense monopoly too. I took Progress and was confident to found my religion, but I took God of the Open Skies and didn't have a lot of pastures + barbarians prevent me to improve my incense fast enough to grab the monopoly early. So I didn't found, and after settling my 7 other cities, I attacked Carthage to took Islam while she was at war with the Celts and Ethiopia. Despite she was 10 techs ahead of me, she didn't have a lot of units and I manage to get the Holy City of Carthage + 2 other cities and vassalize her aswell. I took it early enough to reform the religion myself and I finished with a religion with : God of Commerce (really good), the founder belief giving the Great Reliquary (meh), mastery, synagogues and the belief that gives science and culture in the holy city for foreign followers. I converted the celts, which didn't manage to found, and England.

On my continents were also Babylon, Ethiopia (which founded Eastern Orthodoxy) and Austria (founder of hinduism). England became the master of the Celts, and soon, Austria, which didn't appreciate my victorious conquest of Carthaginian lands, declare war on me and Ethiopia. She was leading in science and I had nothing to fight her lancers, so I manage to defend myself long enough to have a white peace. My plan was to build a fleet of Sea Beggar, and took their cities in the north, while my army fight on the south. But first, I had to ally the city-states of my continent : a hard task, even with Statecraft, as Austria married 8 of them. During this time, she found the World Congress, and I met Denmark, the master of Siam, and... Venice. The DV could be harder than expected. Anyway, the culture earned by the UA + religion pushed me ahead of everyone in social policies and I adopted Industry, allowing me to build an army to fight Austria, leader of the game and wonder whore. It was a tough war, and her UU gave me a hard time, but my sea beggar made the difference, and soon, I took her cities one by one, until I reached her capital. I finally took it, and pick Autocracy : the Iron Fist tenet + Military Industrial Complex giving me 3 science per polder made me the new leader of the world.

I was first in everything, except in population maybe. I stressed a little when the World Congress passed decolonization on me, and Babylon, Celts, then England, followed by Venice declared war on me. But I had enough money to buy diplomatic units and restore my alliances while my highly promoted Ironclads stole english SoTL. I made peace with Babylon, then the Celts, and finally England, but at the price of two city-states. Nevermind, Austria gives me enough votes to win the DV and I liberated Jerusalem from Venice. But Denmark declared war, followed by Ehiopia and Siam. It remains 6 turns before World Hegemony vote, but my save don't want to load anymore, so I won't see the victory screen :sad: But there's actually no chance I lose + I am influential with everyone but Denmark, so I say it's a win.


Netherlands is a really fun civ to play and I enjoyed them. I already liked them before, but the addition to their UA is really nice and they feel really unique now.

But there's one thing I wondered during the game : if I have 2 lapis on my lands (direct control), and import 3 of them to have the monopoly, can I still export the 2 I control directly without losing the monopoly or will I lose it ?
 
CrazyG said:
My game as the Netherlands is perhaps the strangest game I've ever had

I started in tundra with a serious lack of anything useful. I couldn't find a way to settle coastal without just screwing my start, so my capital is inland but has 3 fish. My start remains awful, with no ruins found and terrible land. But I did get the tundra pantheon, and I have 5 mines which qualify in my capital, 4 of which are copper. So I get the statue of zeus, and now I have a ridiculous amount of hammers. But I don't even have anywhere to put settlers, I got forward settled and already claimed the only other reasonable spot. I could try to take France's city, but I have no strategic resources, we are really good friends (so much trade) and its going to be a tough fight.

Instead I spam archers to gift to Ife, and manage to friend him for a little bit of faith. I barely get a religion, and take mastery.

Carthage and France are at eternal war, and I still haven't found the other continents. Despite France reaching 3 social policies before I got my first, I'm now ahead of him. After the Oracle I'm 3 policies ahead, and I still lead the world in produciton with only 2 cities. But I still feel like my empire sucks, cause its just two cities, I can't even build the grand temple due to lack of population. I manage to get University of Sankore, I'll try to Hagia next session.

I really don't know if I'm doing well, like my culture is like record setting good, my science is good, my production is still number one. But I only have 2 cities and almost no military...
Anyways its a fun game and cool civ
Click to expand...

That's a great save already! If your science is reasonable enough, you might be able to win a CV... but you'd be putting all your eggs in a dangerous basket. Is your other city on the coast? Because Sea Beggars are the Great Equalizers, and they could give you the cities you need to broaden your choices.
 
Netherlands, Deity, Continents, Standard size, Standard speed, No Tech Trading/Brokering, No Events, Transparent Diplomacy.
Spoiler :

civned0.png


Cotton/Crabs and no fresh water in capital, but what looks like a long river north. It could be way worse. I quickly spot some good expansion locations and go down the Progress path. My neighbours are traditional Celts and authoritarian Ethiopia, so religion will be whatever they pick for me I guess. Monument/Shrine(God of All Creations)/archer and then try to fill the land quicker than them. I see a Celt settler coming my way but barbarians spawn between us and delay Boudicca plans, I also move to settle west before Haile forward settles more.
Spoiler :

civned57.png

The initial plan here was settle on the desert south of the lake, at a distance that hopefully wouldn't piss the Celts too much, but another encampment spawned where those horsemen are. Settling right at Edinburgh doors and buying the juicy NW meant war was inevitable.

A couple horsemen and all those forests blocking archers LoS made hilly Groningen a tough nut to crack though, so we settle for a white peace.

Spoiler :

civned100.png


Despite very little luck with CS quests, only 2 neighbours and few luxuries to trade between us, the Dutch UA provided a good chunk of culture and gold. The Celts royally pissed Ethiopia settling a coastal city next to them, so when I'm ready to strike (Terracotta was up for grabs, made my army a bit more respectable) I make a easy ally and don't have to fear any backstab from the western front.

Spoiler :

civned117.png


Eastern Orthodoxy is a wonderful faith to adopt.
I conquest a a city and leave the celt capital in flames, getting Dublin in the peace deal: I was ready to raze that disgrace of a tundra town when fog of war goes away and reveals the Great Barrier Reef :)

Celts have no more room to expand and is just a matter to gain tech advantage to finish the job. I unlock knights (Medieval t134) when Ethipia has a 6 techs advantage and enters Renaissance shortly after. I finally got around to build science in my small productive towns and catch up. A spy in Addis Ababa will grant me Renaissance access through Astronomy at t159.

Spoiler :
civned167.png



With caravels in game I meet the other leaders. Except some unlucky sob who got annexed by Askia (turned out it was Arabia). Celts made a defensive pact with Hiawatha, who graciously provides my Beggars some caravel ready to be upgraded into a cheap fresh fleet.

As the new Head of Catholicism, I call for an inquisition.. on my own faithful masses. Orthodoxy is the future, and my majority religion for Fealty finisher purposes.

Do you see all those nice ships my good friend Haile is sending toward Hiawatha evil forces? I decided they'd look better with my colors. It's also time to get rid of the tech leader before he snowballs and fields his Mahel Safari troops, so I accept a white peace with the hippie boy and backstab Haile the turn after our DoF expires.

Spoiler :

civned200.png



Fun fact, despite us sharing religion, I count as an Infedel and he gets Defender of the Faith bonus.
I rule the waves, but taking his land locked capital with the Red Fort and Orders is a bloody affair. He's deep into unhappiness so spawns rebels and I get some combat bonus, enough to clear the defenders and place some advanced citadels. Despite that, the siege of Addis Ababa almost costed me the game.

Spoiler :
civned212.png


Twelve turns later I'm deep into war exhaustion. 75% production penality :| All those ships I stole filled my supply limit and made reinforcing my land army impossible. Despite that, I would have pushed a bit more and get rid of Haile presence on MY continent once and for all, if not for a bugged situation in the south-east: that Orange dot on the minimap is me roleplaying and colonizing the spice islands, not realizing that placing a 8 defense town next to a hostile city state that late in the game would be a quite crap move.

Not too bad, I deny Kilimangiaro to Hiawatha anyway I think, and can send some ships to get back The Hague in ~5 turns, while I siege down Adwa despite my crappy supply cap; the problem is that once Ragusa conquered my town it kept processing its turn forever. I load this t212 save and accept peace after annexing Addis Ababa and Nantes only instead, refusing the Ethiopian proposal to be my bff vassal because I plan to finish the job soon.

A couple of turns later, awesome move from Songhai AI: that deceitful bastard sent 1/4 of his fleet to my unguarded eastern front and declares. I cannot rush buy anything due to supply limit, but quickly move a lancer to garrison Cardiff and a couple of Sea Beggars that were under repair made it in time moving in the narrow artic passage. It was really close, the town had something like ~10 hp left when I was done dealing with that fleet (about 8 more ships in the fog of war, mostly melee ones thankfully so).

Spoiler :

civnedsneaky.png


In the meanwhile, I am busy chewing through the big part of his fleet. Before the war: ~40 ships Askia, ~30 ships myself. After 10 turns: maybe 3 ships Askia, ~45 ships me. His declaration of war triggered my defensive pact with good ole friend Monty (whose hate for my modest warmongering ranks at -60, Hiawatha who witnessed the same battle horrors ranks me at -1767 :) ) and opened his flank to the Iroquois who jumped on board, then I bribed Monty to attack the latter as well for good measure, preparing the terrain for my Ethiopian war.

Askia asks for a white peace that I accept (his fleet was gone but I wanted to clean my continent before trying to get a beachhead on his one). Time to purge this Ethiopian plague from my home turf and calling in the Iroquois due to defensive pact. More free ships under my flag.



I am quitting the game now sadly, Ragusa decided it wanted to screw my game and caused another frozen screen while processing the next turn. Reported https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/3531

I'm going to call it a win for whatever condition I decide to pick, being ahead of AIs in every way: close to enter Modern Era before everybody else, 114k vs 75k (Askia) total culture, the seas are mine (quite a lot of water in this continent map, not complaining though, also at my second attempt I manage to pass Treasury Fleet proposal and got 1st prize easily), and enough gold to buy at robbery price all spare luxuries I can put my hands on. 9 out of 13 CSs are allied, 15 main towns producing era-appropriate buildings in 3/4 turns with Progress/Fealty/Imperialism, plus 2 small colonies + 1 in the making, to provide safe harbors and map control.
Spoiler :

civned236.png


Netherland impressions:

- The UA is fun, but I fear a bit unbalanced. On paper it seems okay, but when you compare the numbers to Morocco or Germany you can see the Culture gap is nuts (I'm picking those civs as comparison due to how they have to work to get the most important yelds at game start, and those other civs don't have that great kit either).
'Culture from traits' was making 25-33% of my total culture output for most of the game, and I started with only 2 neighbours, luxuries that take long to upgrade on both mine and their territory, early wars, no CS allies until late, late wars. Put me on some Pangea corner with mining luxuries and the snowballing would be serious.
I also preferred the old way of Culture for Imports and Gold for Exports, to differentiate the trade flow.

Fun Factor: 8/10 Power Factor: 9/10 (on the NutsFeeling™ Scale)

- The Polders are solid, good to catch up with production/gold even on poor starts (or sparse resources) even if they make you somehow terrain dependant, but fresh water is common enough.
Thankfully Progress workers make/clear roads quick, because I re-build my road network twice to move from early, cheapest city connection to road setups through polder-powered villages.
Random cosmetic suggestion: polders on hills look weird, and I'd like to be able to place them on no-fresh water marches as well.
Random balance suggestion: swap the +1 Culture they get at Chemistry to +1 Science. Way too much Culture in the Dutch UA as it is.
Random lazy suggestion: leave them as they are they're ok anyway.

Fun Factor: 8/10 Power Factor: 7/10 (fun due to the planning involved, by comparison Shoshy's UI would rate ~2)

- The Sea Beggar is silly OP. It's an upgrade to a weak unit though so I suppose it's alright, and in low water maps you can't rip its benefits, but it comes too early, having it at Navigation would be fine and make you able to enjoy many turns of naval supremacy still. Having tried both, I can safely claim Beggars are way more impactful than Ships of the Line, mainly due to their earlier window of opportunity and ability to mow down the huge deity fleets when you only have a handful of them.
The ships you gain through the Prize Ships ability lose all their promotions, it came as a suprise but I guess it acts as a balancing factor.
It needs its description re-worded btw, its promotions don't net bonus gold from attacking cities anymore.

Fun Factor: 10/10 Power Factor: 9/10


Overall: quite nice scores yo.
 
Last edited:
randomnub said:
Netherlands, Deity, Continents, Standard size, Standard speed, No Tech Trading/Brokering, No Events, Transparent Diplomacy.


Cotton/Crabs and no fresh water in capital, but what looks like a long river north. It could be way worse. I quickly spot some good expansion locations and go down the Progress path. My neighbours are traditional Celts and authoritarian Ethiopia, so religion will be whatever they pick for me I guess. Monument/Shrine(God of All Creations)/archer and then try to fill the land quicker than them. I see a Celt settler coming my way but barbarians spawn between us and delay Boudicca plans, I also move to settle west before Haile forward settles more.

The initial plan here was settle on the desert south of the lake, at a distance that hopefully wouldn't piss the Celts too much, but another encampment spawned where those horsemen are. Settling right at Edinburgh doors and buying the juicy NW meant war was inevitable.

A couple horsemen and all those forests blocking archers LoS made hilly Groningen a tough nut to crack though, so we settle for a white peace.



Despite very little luck with CS quests, only 2 neighbours and few luxuries to trade between us, the Dutch UA provided a good chunk of culture and gold. The Celts royally pissed Ethiopia settling a coastal city next to them, so when I'm ready to strike (Terracotta was up for grabs, made my army a bit more respectable) I make a easy ally and don't have to fear any backstab from the western front.



Eastern Orthodoxy is a wonderful faith to adopt.
I conquest a a city and leave the celt capital in flames, getting Dublin in the peace deal: I was ready to raze that disgrace of a tundra town when fog of war goes away and reveals the Great Barrier Reef :)

Celts have no more room to expand and is just a matter to gain tech advantage to finish the job. I unlock knights (Medieval t134) when Ethipia has a 6 techs advantage and enters Renaissance shortly after. I finally got around to build science in my small productive towns and catch up. A spy in Addis Ababa will grant me Renaissance access through Astronomy at t159.



With caravels in game I meet the other leaders. Except some unlucky sob who got annexed by Askia (turned out it was Arabia). Celts made a defensive pact with Hiawatha, who graciously provides my Beggars some caravel ready to be upgraded into a cheap fresh fleet.

As the new Head of Catholicism, I call for an inquisition.. on my own faithful masses. Orthodoxy is the future, and my majority religion for Fealty finisher purposes.

Do you see all those nice ships my good friend Haile is sending toward Hiawatha evil forces? I decided they'd look better with my colors. It's also time to get rid of the tech leader before he snowballs and fields his Mahel Safari troops, so I accept a white peace with the hippie boy and backstab Haile the turn after our DoF expires.



Fun fact, despite us sharing religion, I count as an Infedel and he gets Defender of the Faith bonus.
I rule the waves, but taking his land locked capital with the Red Fort and Orders is a bloody affair. He's deep into unhappiness so spawns rebels and I get some combat bonus, enough to clear the defenders and place some advanced citadels. Despite that, the siege of Addis Ababa almost costed me the game.



Twelve turns later I'm deep into war exhaustion. 75% production penality :| All those ships I stole filled my supply limit and made reinforcing my land army impossible. Despite that, I would have pushed a bit more and get rid of Haile presence on MY continent once and for all, if not for a bugged situation in the south-east: that Orange dot on the minimap is me roleplaying and colonizing the spice islands, not realizing that placing a 8 defense town next to a hostile city state that late in the game would be a quite crap move.

Not too bad, I deny Kilimangiaro to Hiawatha anyway I think, and can send some ships to get back The Hague in ~5 turns, while I siege down Adwa despite my crappy supply cap; the problem is that once Ragusa conquered my town it kept processing its turn forever. I load this t212 save and accept peace after annexing Addis Ababa and Nantes only instead, refusing the Ethiopian proposal to be my bff vassal because I plan to finish the job soon.

A couple of turns later, awesome move from Songhai AI: that deceitful bastard sent 1/4 of his fleet to my unguarded eastern front and declares. I cannot rush buy anything due to supply limit, but quickly move a lancer to garrison Cardiff and a couple of Sea Beggars that were under repair made it in time moving in the narrow artic passage. It was really close, the town had something like ~10 hp left when I was done dealing with that fleet (about 8 more ships in the fog of war, mostly melee ones thankfully so).



In the meanwhile, I am busy chewing through the big part of his fleet. Before the war: ~40 ships Askia, ~30 ships myself. After 10 turns: maybe 3 ships Askia, ~45 ships me. His declaration of war triggered my defensive pact with good ole friend Monty (whose hate for my modest warmongering ranks at -60, Hiawatha who witnessed the same battle horrors ranks me at -1767 :) ) and opened his flank to the Iroquois who jumped on board, then I bribed Monty to attack the latter as well for good measure, preparing the terrain for my Ethiopian war.

Askia asks for a white peace that I accept (his fleet was gone but I wanted to clean my continent before trying to get a beachhead on his one). Time to purge this Ethiopian plague from my home turf and calling in the Iroquois due to defensive pact. More free ships under my flag.



I am quitting the game now sadly, Ragusa decided it wanted to screw my game and caused another frozen screen while processing the next turn. Reported https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/issues/3531

I'm going to call it a win for whatever condition I decide to pick, being ahead of AIs in every way: close to enter Modern Era before everybody else, 114k vs 75k (Askia) total culture, the seas are mine (quite a lot of water in this continent map, not complaining though, also at my second attempt I manage to pass Treasury Fleet proposal and got 1st prize easily), and enough gold to buy at robbery price all spare luxuries I can put my hands on. 9 out of 13 CSs are allied, 15 main towns producing era-appropriate buildings in 3/4 turns with Progress/Fealty/Imperialism, plus 2 small colonies + 1 in the making, to provide safe harbors and map control.


Netherland impressions:

- The UA is fun, but I fear a bit unbalanced. On paper it seems okay, but when you compare the numbers to Morocco or Germany you can see the Culture gap is nuts (I'm picking those civs as comparison due to how they have to work to get the most important yelds at game start, and those other civs don't have that great kit either).
'Culture from traits' was making 25-33% of my total culture output for most of the game, and I started with only 2 neighbours, luxuries that take long to upgrade on both mine and their territory, early wars, no CS allies until late, late wars. Put me on some Pangea corner with mining luxuries and the snowballing would be serious.
I also preferred the old way of Culture for Imports and Gold for Exports, to differentiate the trade flow.

Fun Factor: 8/10 Power Factor: 9/10 (on the NutsFeeling™ Scale)

- The Polders are solid, good to catch up with production/gold even on poor starts (or sparse resources) even if they make you somehow terrain dependant, but fresh water is common enough.
Thankfully Progress workers make/clear roads quick, because I re-build my road network twice to move from early, cheapest city connection to road setups through polder-powered villages.
Random cosmetic suggestion: polders on hills look weird, and I'd like to be able to place them on no-fresh water marches as well.
Random balance suggestion: swap the +1 Culture they get at Chemistry to +1 Science. Way too much Culture in the Dutch UA as it is.
Random lazy suggestion: leave them as they are they're ok anyway.

Fun Factor: 8/10 Power Factor: 7/10 (fun due to the planning involved, by comparison Shoshy's UI would rate ~2)

- The Sea Beggar is silly OP. It's an upgrade to a weak unit though so I suppose it's alright, and in low water maps you can't rip its benefits, but it comes too early, having it at Navigation would be fine and make you able to enjoy many turns of naval supremacy still. Having tried both, I can safely claim Beggars are way more impactful than Ships of the Line, mainly due to their earlier window of opportunity and ability to mow down the huge deity fleets when you only have a handful of them.
The ships you gain through the Prize Ships ability lose all their promotions, it came as a suprise but I guess it acts as a balancing factor.
It needs its description re-worded btw, its promotions don't net bonus gold from attacking cities anymore.

Fun Factor: 10/10 Power Factor: 9/10


Overall: quite nice scores yo.
Click to expand...


Entertaining and insightful read -- thanks for the effort. Since I never play the way you did, I found it interesting that you played as if going for Domination, although that wasn't necessarily your goal. Is that the surest way to play Deity?

How did you take on the Celts in your second war? I ask because it seems you had them beat before Knights, and I'm wondering how you could do that on Deity while not having your tech in good shape yet.

Are Sea Beggars OP? They are going to dragoon a lot of galleys first, which are about to lose all value; and, as you point out, all their prizes lose their promotions. Given the supply cap (especially when going Tradition), I give away most of the ships I capture to CS, except for the ones I keep around to take enemy fire. So while they do boost my navy from next to nothing to a solid force, they don't do a lot more than that in the larger military scheme. I see them as one of the more powerful UU's, game-altering as intended, but not game-breaking.
 
I feel at least one early war to claim your monopoly/nearbyNW/enough breathing room is necessary at Deity, can't let the closest neighbour have more cities than you, on top of all the cheating, because if they're not super chill dudes they'll use their clay advantage to attack you with tech/resource leads later on. If they're the Attila sort of dudes it's simply impossible to dodge them so might as well cripple them quick.

Despite her UU, Boudicca is actually a chill gal in my experience, but I spawned very close with a crap looking capital site and half the cotton of the map would have been claimed by her had I not rushed settlers. Or most of decent polder locations. She was already quite pissed after I settled two towns (heck even Haile was) but the last drop was the city next to the NW so, pretty much forced her hand there.

I could have stopped warring there but she already hated my guts, Haile hated her enough to forget our border friction and offer me a joint war, so I said why not: ''give me 10 turns to prepare'' followed by a quick glance at both their main towns, saw no Terracotta being under construction, gold-invested into that plus a gold rushed catapult + upgrading one of the two warriors into a spearman, I also had a chariot archer from militaristic CS and barracks in the capital. All that double up and made for quite a good invading army, especially when I can heal in my territory right next to her iron mines, and Celts wasted a lot of resources in a early navy that couldn't protect them at all. Cardiff with no walls was easy prey with catapults and my horsemen pillaged all her strategic resources so she couldn't heal her swordmen.

Then about the Ethiopian war... That one was really a bloody war and I could have avoid it, being friends with a ton of modifiers (he really didn't mind me clearing the Celts), but this time I felt it was necessary. Ethiopia was tech leader and freely expanding on other continents (thank you Venice), but teching the upper-mid part of the tree so when I attacked I had numbers and strength advantage. Also caught most of his fleet out of position, during the prime time of my UU. Best moment to attack, except the siege part lasting ages.

If my neighbour wasn't a tech crazy, or if I had some ways to catch up in science late game I would have left it alone and focused more on infrastructure; going Imperialism double monopoly with a 20% coffee among other stuff sure helped catch up on that though.


Sea Beggars are indeed OP. But that's a bit like saying Legions, Samurais, Hwatcha are OP. They're good at their job and offer the civilization a good prime time, if you unleash them at the right time. I'm just worried such prime time lasts very long due to them unlocking at Astronomy (and not going obsolete until rocketry, lol). It was the first time I used them in CBP, and never played much NED in Vanilla anyway so probably I'm the only one being surprised here.
 
randomnub said:
Netherlands, Deity, Continents, Standard size, Standard speed, No Tech Trading/Brokering, No Events, Transparent Diplomacy.
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Nice read.

I've not actually ran into that problem myself, but I'm a little bit curious about your crazy war weariness there in the second to last picture. I mean your unit cap is down 12 from what I assume to be over 50, why is that, and is it a common occurance?
 
For this weeks challenge I'm a bit curious about some great cheese, and what could be cheesier than the Byzantine?
So go ahead and play a game and tell me about your cheesiest religion ever.
 
It's been a while since I've joined a weekly challenge. (Or is it bi-weekly now?) I could take a break and do this one.

... Except I have no idea how to play Byzantium. Choosing religious beliefs has always been hard for me, and Byzantium would make that doubly hard.

My first thought is Tradition/Artistry with a non-spreading, tourism-focused religion. But I don't want to commit to that before the game starts. What are some other Byzantium strats I could use?
 
If you are confused just go for ONE specific yield you want to emphasize and grab any belief that have those text on it. By "yield" I mean one aspect, votes on world congress can also be considered "yield".

Some personal advice, basic strategy is: take two founder belief to have superior holy site (but because it's also a world wonder, it will adds up to your wonder cost), take three religious building (but if you spread them, other civ can have access to all three), or take two enhancer belief
As a standard, you can have three religious building+that one reformation belief that says "3 tourism for each religious building". Take piety for the monastery and you will have 12 free tourism before reduction.

Personally I have tried "religions spread twice as fast"+"religion spread further" for the luls. It's cool to deny any religions and making half of the world share the same beliefs without doing anything. You will have tons of vote also
Going warmonger: yields when conquering city, +15 exp building, gold per follower (for unit maintenance), production per follower, purchase units with faith, +damage when fighting in enemy lands.
If you happen to take two founder belief and you want superior tile yield you can add Resilience in enhancer belief that basically give 25% discount on prophet while adding 3 yields to holy site.
Want to emphasize on growth and specialists? yields when expend great person(both in founder and enhancer) mandir to avoid assassination, +food per follower, +6 to all yields every time citizen is born, buy great person with faith.
Absolute golden age: golden age and growth when spreading religion, mosque, church, cathedral (and build plethora of farm).

If you take three religious building, don't neglect cultural specialists to fill all those empty great work slots. Sometimes taking Piety is always tempting but for me, Byzantium don't always need piety because their faith output is woah. I'm personally satisfied with going artistry instead. Have yet to go statecraft though.
You can beeline for specific Reformation belief and tailor your other beliefs based on it. That's how "Three religious building for 12 tourism" was suggested.
Don't forget that Basilica generates religious pressure and doubles religious pressure via trade route. It's quite difficult playing as Byzantium and keeping religion only for yourself.

For me, no civilization truly screams flexibility in its UA like Byzantium.
There's a specific Byzantium thread, you can also go there to find some strategy.
 
Blue Ghost said:
My first thought is Tradition/Artistry with a non-spreading, tourism-focused religion. But I don't want to commit to that before the game starts. What are some other Byzantium strats I could use?
Click to expand...
One strat that I wanted to try was maxing the bonuses from spreading religion actions and spamming missionaries for the science victory.
Way of the Pilgrim
Churches
Evangelism
Pacifism
Jesuit education

A lot of micro, but you could get crazy culture and science yields from this
 
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