Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by groobz, Nov 29, 2003.
It should tell you the difficulty when you load the game.
Oops, I meant what patch level. The game is regent difficulty level. I will edit the post - thanks
Wow a very inspirational post - all the best with getting computers keep us posted (very interesting read )
you still playing this game zerksees?
I am still playing, and I will definitely let you know how the game ends. I did not have time to update in the last few days, and I plan more screenshots in a day or so.
1370 AD: Income 928, corruption 117
Took Baltimore from America. There was only one tank in there. This seemed too easy. I looked on military advisor screen and determined America was in anarchy! Better move fast before they recover.
Also had the privilege of defeating an American modern armor army. Used artillery to reduce it to one hit point and took it out with cavalry. Artillery rocks!
Bought radio from Arabs for furs and 740 gold. Renewed ROP with Bismarck at no cost.
Cleared land SW of Baltimore of improvements with artillery. Sent a settler there to put artillery in range of Houston and Cincinnati. Maybe I can get one more city.
Put artillery and cavalry to work and took Asyut from America, again defended with only one unit.
Renew ROP with China for 5 gold.
Founded a city in a small gap of unclaimed land near Chinese oil. Will need culture expansion to place a second city and more culture expansion to take it. This is a contingency plan.
Founded new city: First American Road. Had moved workers with defenders between Baltimore and this city. They built roads. Artillery moved in and attacked Houston. Two infantry and one MI defending. The unstoppable artillery and cavalry (lol) overpower their units and Houston now belongs to Japan. Houston has dyes, which Japan can use to help with war weariness.
Artillery has also been hitting Cincinnati. There are at least 3 MI in there and Japan has not been able to get them all down to one HP. They are isolated now, so reinforcements are unlikely and I will be able to see Germany coming after them, so they wait.
Send infantry army, settler, two cavalry and a couple more infantry on a trek through American territory to reach American oil. Japan must continue this war until that resource is secure.
The approach of building a city to move artillery in range, positioning workers to road-connect the new city as soon as it is built, and taking the enemy city with cavalry is repeated in most of the attacks against American cities. I hate losing all those units, so artillery will bomb down to one HP on each unit before the cavalry charge.
Took out another American modern armor army with artillery and cavalry. Note to self: never send an army against a civ with 40+ artillery unless the army has an escort stack.
Took Cincinnati. Artillery barrage not so good, I just used some cavalry to force the issue. Several pesky American bombers and fighters based there were destroyed.
Put a road in to hook up the dyes near Houston, and put some infantry on it. We love the shogun day celebrated. Maybe they will offer to expand my palace.
Bought computers from Ghandi for 1490 gold crazy insane prices! Now all Japan needs to do is secure the oil.
Took Boston. Japan did not have a road so she defended with 4 infantry and 8 cavalry. The infantry had crept up the turn before. The Americans counter attacked and retook the city, but left the workers and infantry right outside the city. Japan attacks again, retakes city, builds road with workers right outside, moves in infantry army for defense, and moves in remaining artillery to defeat modern armor used in the counter strike. Bombed them all down to one HP and eliminated them. Ouch for them. They are losing cities and that was probably their last best strike force.
3 more turns until my settler and infantry army are on the oil. Amazingly, they are advancing at the same speed as my conquest of cities. Japan is deep into American territory and she can smell that oil!
The MPP with Germany came up, and Japan renewed it for 9 gpt. Japan is still too weak to go without friends, and the oil is not secure. The last thing she needs is a war with China. I guess its 20 more turns of war.
Germany takes Detroit and razes it! Apparently they have enough land already. Speaking of them, where have they been? They took Richmond and kept it earlier, but thats it. I promptly move in settlers and take over the vacant land! I am amazed at how much success I am having compared to them. All these cities are going to be close enough to the forbidden palace to be productive.
Japan is closing in on Washington. Attempted to take it this turn but came up short. Now German forces smell blood, and a stack of MA are headed toward Washington. They will be there next turn. One of the oil resources is outside Washington it would be a shame if it falls into German hands. So I pull every extra unit and stack them up next to Washington for the final attempt.
America came asking for peace. They would give rocketry but Japan tells them no thanks.
China and Mongols sign MPP. China and England sign MPP the next turn. I was unhappy before that China was not in this war but I am even less happy now. I hope they decide to leave Japan alone.
Japan launches artillery barrage and then takes Washington with cavalry, infantry and guerillas. German modern armor witnesses the event.
A settler is moved to the oil directly outside the city with reinforcements.
Japan founds Oilville on the first American oil tile. The military offensive beat the settler/infantry army stack. That stack now directed toward the other oil resource.
Also took San Francisco, just ahead of German modern armor.
Japan does mass upgrade of infantry to mechanized infantry. Shift-U updates 40 infantry in cities with barracks to MI for 800 gold. (Japan still has 1238 gold left after this upgrade.) On future turns these will be moved around to replace infantry, which will be brought in for upgrades. Production for many cities switched to tanks.
Whew! The playing field starts to level a little. I feel Japan is a little safer from surprise attack now, and is starting to have a little more control of her destiny. Never again will Japan be so vulnerable to the forces of the AI!
Income is 1010 and corruption is 185, with +236 gold extra each turn.
India signs MA with Germany against America.
What a great thread! After reading this, it's so humbling to reflect on the "tense" periods in my own epic games when I lose the tech lead for a few hundred years. Zerk, you're an inspiration -- when that jungle or desert start comes up, next time I'm going to gut it out, and at the very least I'll go down swingin'.
Please remind me about China: They're big and to your north, now MPP with two civs (Mongolia, England) on the other continent. Why does that make you nervous? Another thing ('fraid I can't read a map...), who owns the part of your continent south of Germany, across from Rome? Has China been at peace all this time?
Looking forward to the screenshots...
frank_mosta to answer your questions:
China has not been at peace the whole time. They joined in to the attacks on Russia and France. They had some significant territory gains, particularly in Russia.
China is not participating in any war now and so they must be stockpiling units. When an AI starts signing MPP like that I think they feel safer to start a war since they know several civs will support them. Perhaps I am overestimating the AI. Also, Japan has a huge border with China right now. It would be virtually impossible to defend the whole thing adequately. I would hate for Japan to lose all that prime territory taken from Russia. If Japan gets into a better position, I will make a priority out of consolidating that border, probably by taking most of the former Russian cities at the north end of the continent.
South of Russia is former France territory. Japan and India have the largest presence of cities there. Of course some of the former France cities are German as well. Arabs and Romans have one city each, and I have 2 cities down there as well (I built mine near ruins of France cities as a possible new palace location).
Glad to inspire you! During my quest to master the game, I have never restarted due to a bad starting location. So far the AI has defeated me only once and that was my first attempt on emperor level. In my loss I played it through to the end hoping to live through it and learn. (I have since gone undefeated at that level vs the AI). The only time I would reload at the start is if I went for a high score HOF milking attempt.
It wasnt very long ago I have had this game for about a year that I was in awe of the people who could beat this game on deity. I am still impressed with the best players of the game, I can learn a lot from them, but I know enough I think I can provide some insight into saving a game you are losing.
I was busy playing last night hopefully I can pry myself away enough to take and post screenshots tonight.
Took New York and Philadelphia.
Placed settler on top of second source of American oil. Japan will not take this yet, as I want America to defend well against the other AI players.
England requests trade of world map for Japan world map plus 190 gold. Sure Elizabeth, I am going to pay to show you where the open areas are near me. Romans tried to trade territory maps and collect 1 gold in 1430. In both cases Japan says no thanks. Japan can afford to be a little selective now. If I were worried about repercussions, I might gift territory map or 25 gold, but not today.
Sell dyes to China for 40 gpt. Buy rocketry from Romans for dyes, furs and 610 gold.
Allowed alliance with Arabs to expire. I will make peace with America if they last long enough.
Units: 2 settler, 54 worker, 16 cavalry, 51 infantry, 7 tanks, 89 mechanized infantry, 67 artillery, 1 galleon, 3 armies, 1 guerilla (291 units I think).
Plan to fill gaps around Philadelphia with new towns.
Had planned to stop fighting America, but discovered Japans territory has no aluminum. Ouch. Buffalo has some, but again Germans and India are closing in. Moved a stack of 25 units next to the city in 1470, and used some workers to wall off access to the city. Took Buffalo in 1475.
Saw my first war elephants ever. They look cool. Also saw first stealth aircraft ever, also from India. My games are usually over before any AI can build stealth. Hmm
Not looking forward to fighting against the stealth.
In 1480 America has four cities left. Japan is done attacking her. Instead she pillages the roads in neutral territory to slow the AI advance and buy America more time. I believe Japan will benefit from a longer war, since it will drain down the other AI and keep Germany busy.
Japan now has 320 units.
Bought ecology from Arabs for dyes, furs and 680 gold. Bought synthetic fibers from India for 33 gpt, 808 gold and ROP. Apparently Ghandi trusts Japan again.
Built more cities to fill gaps, and to take extra rubber resource left in wake of an American city.
Upgraded a couple tanks to modern armor. Look out AI world, zerksees has modern armor!
Strategy: It is obvious Bismarck is a war monger. Japans republic cant take always war. Germany is in monarchy so she can play AW. Japan needs to let the MPP with Germany expire, make preparations, and then attack. As soon as America is gone Japan will sign MPP with China and prepare to go after Germany. Besides, Germany owns a nice chunk of land directly east of the forbidden palace, so Japan could put some nice productive cities there. Japan needs to get out of mobilization as well, as many improvements are not being made.
India destroys Seattle, Americas second last city.
England and America sign trade embargo against us. Oooh. I am scared again.
Mongols and Germany sign MPP. This is interesting since Mongols also have MPP with China.
Rampaging German forces take Miami, the last American city. The world is at peace.
Mobilization ended. Thank goodness. Visit many cities and change production to marketplace, a couple of courthouses, temple, aqueduct, wall street.
Abandon city Truck Wreck. It was stuck at size 2 and so those tiles can be worked by other nearby cities. It had few improvements. Plan to drop Suburb and Sokitume for these I will build workers until they get to size 1 then abandon.
Arabs request territory map trade. I give Japans instead. Japan has acquired all the territory I want and I want to keep Japans rep up with them.
Bismarck demands 25 gold and territory map. I paused and stared at the screen for a while. I want to tell him no, and see if he is bluffing. Japan is preparing for war and this would be an easy way to start it. In the end Japan gives in because the preparations are not complete. Also I am guessing he might go after someone else. Just remember Bismarck, paybacks are a
My suspicions soon proved correct as Germany declares war on the Romans.
Romans are now under the AI dogpile.
Japan is forced to declare war as Romans must have entered German territory.
Rome foolishly declares war on India
China and Arabs also declare war on Romans.
Japan will not attack Roman cities for now. They are too far away from Japans forbidden palace to be any value to her, and the same for Germany. It will likely mean more cleanup later in the game, but so be it. Japan needs to survive that long.
Income is already up to 1531, with 372 lost to corruption, and +438 extra gold each turn. Tech research still at 0%.
Japan now must wait for the MPP and ROP with Germany to end. Immediately following Japan will make peace with Rome. A few turns after that Japan will initiate war for the first time since 590 AD. I am not sure it is the best move, but it is necessary if Japan wants to start controlling the game.
I hope the AI does not use nukes
wow great stuff,, Does Germany still have the largest army in the game?,, this should be a hard fight if you plan to take on the germans! goodluck!
Groobz, Germany was largest for a long time, but tonight I noticed
China had a larger military than them
Here is the new west end of Japan's empire:
Here is the power chart:
wow u sure made progress on power!
Wow! great work!! I even see you named a city "groobz" ,, i'm looking foward to seeing you take on germany,, give em hell!
OK another game update:
Five Roman units found their way into Japan territory. I hit them with artillery and then with my ragtag stack of elites: 1 tank, 1 MI, 1 infantry and 1 cavalry. No great leader. Never again will Roman units that enter my territory survive the other AI players.
Did an investigation of German city of Dortmund. This is the lone German city west of Queen Barbie. There are only 3 MI in there. This city is a planned target of my first assault. Maybe the strength of the German army is out making war.
Have not mentioned that Japan passed Egypt and took 11th place in score quite a ways back. Did an analysis of scores and found that Japan, China and Germany tied with the highest increase in score (10 points per turn). India gained 8, Mongols 4, England and Arabs 3, Rome 2. The Americans (-4), France (-4), and Russia (-3) are all in free fall mode since they are out of the game. If Japan does not get herself killed and/or nuked out, she should finish at least 8th.
Corruption is up to 407 per turn. This is amazing since it is over double Japans total income at 590 AD when I picked up the game.
At this time every tile east and north of city Second American Road is fully improved with railroads and mines or irrigation.
MPP with Germany ends. Bismarck regrets he does not wish to extend it. Is he prophetic?
Completed Wall Street. Woo-hoo! Extra 50 GPT thank you very much.
India gets England to join the war against Rome, so the trade embargo ends.
Japans military now average compared to Germany. Japan is still weak compared to Chinas military.
Income 1817, corruption 450, gaining +600 gpt.
Finally Rome acknowledges our envoy. Collect 200 gold for peace.
Buy fission from Arabs for 1610 gold. Japan has two uranium tiles in her territory.
Germany signs MPP with Arabs. Wonder if Japans gold financed it?
Gave furs to Elizabeth. Maybe she will look better wearing them. Really I wanted her polite, and I want her to think about the furs she will lose if she joins Germany against me.
Japan ranks 2nd in GNP and annual income, and 5th in manufactured goods.
Over the last few turns Japan has started building more military units in preparation for the next war. I hope to avoid using mobilization.
I am chomping at the bit to get this war started - just waiting for ROP to run out in 4-5 more turns.
Making final preparations for war. Moving all available units to key areas in case Bismarck wants to start the war before Japan does. I notice Germany has a large group of units in Miami, so Japan puts up another city nearby for fodder (named it Fodder). Start putting up radar towers at strategic locations and backing them with a couple MI. Start organizing workers into larger stacks so they can finish their jobs and get to a safe place. Build cash to use to buy alliances or MPP with other civs.
Sell dyes to China for 40 gpt.
Preparations are complete. The ROP ends next turn.
China destroys the Romans. I suspect Caesar realizes he should have given in to Bismarcks demands. Fortunately Rome was so short on units that they did not invade Chinese territory and force Japan back into the war, dealing her another rep hit.
Bismarck requests renewing ROP, Japan says no thanks. Now he is furious. I am not watching the reputation that closely, I am surprised he is not just annoyed.
I keep seeing potential holes in my defense, so slowly I reduce my defense on the China border to one or no units per city and move them to the German border.
Japan signs MPP with Indians, to augment current MPP with China and Arabs. I think this MPP cost about 300 gold.
Germany has units in Japanese territory. I tell him remove your forces or declare war. Bismarck chooses war. Germany is in trouble now but it is about to get worse.
Japan pays 930 gold to sign MPP with Mongols.
Japan pays 50 gold and 100gpt to sign MPP with English (chose gpt because I was afraid she would quit the war early)
Japan now has MPP with everyone left except Germany. Note that two MPPs were signed after Germany declared war on Japan, but before Japan invades.
Now, Germany still has MPP with the Mongols and the Arabs. Knowing this Japan chooses not to invade German territory. Instead Japan takes about 15 workers who were passing through at the time, and hunkers down for the German assault.
I pressed the enter key and waited. It seemed like eternity. Would the Germans be smart enough to stay out of my territory?
Nope. They invaded Japan. As soon as they did, all 5 other civs immediately declared war on them! I felt like Japan had hit the jackpot, and the foreign advisor announced all five declaring war on Germany. Bismarck liked war, now he will be up to his ears in it! This is a good example of using the rogue state strategy, which I use as often as possible to make my wars easier.
The German assault began. I lost three cities with a total population of 9: Gatorade was razed, Fodder was destroyed and New Incense was captured. I lost a couple radar towers. Just about everything he attacked was fortified MI with radar tower support. He assaulted my position defending the aluminum near Buffalo, but ran out of units. After the assault I had one cavalry left under the radar tower there!
Now it is Japans turn for offense. Japan promptly destroys an MA army and a panzer army, and every last unit Germans brought into Japanese territory. There were probably about 25 modern armor and some guerillas. Of course he lost a bunch of MA in his initial attack as well. Japan used artillery against the armies and MA on hills before taking them out with MA. Japan had to take down some German radar towers to help these attacks.
Further, Japan began acquiring German territory. Dortmund, Dallas and Richmond were taken, greatly simplifying the border defense. New Incense was recaptured.
All this war generated a great leader.
I rebuilt radar towers where needed and adjusted defense. I am sure Germany will try again.
I think Japan cleaned up the German units a little too well, as India took Miami from Germany. That was followed by a significant flow of Indian and Chinese units toward German (former American) cities just off the southwest corner of Japanese territory. This is fine with me since I dont want the AI taking any of the prime territory just east of the forbidden palace. These cities are so far from the Indian and Chinese capitals that they will be totally corrupt anyway.
Germany had a chance to return fire but they had few units to attack with, so the counter was weak. No cities were lost.
Cant wait to play again tonight!
Germanys borders are in full retreat. Japan is taking as many cities as she can, focusing effort to the east of the forbidden palace. Took cities as follows: 1590 Cologne; 1595 Munich and New Berlin; 1600 Hannover, Leipzig, and Bonn; 1605 Konigsberg and Berlin; 1610 Stuttgart (renamed to Skipper at daughters request) and 1615 New Leipzig. All of these cities are prime real estate for Japan, and will greatly help increase production once the resistance ends. Most of them were taken with help from artillery to weaken units defending radar towers, then hitting cities with whatever arty was left before attacking with MA.
Taking Leipzig nets Japans first great wonders: Sistine, Hanging Gardens and Copernicus. May not help now but it is still sweet to have them. Berlin also nets a great wonder: Sun Tzus Art of War! Barracks everywhere on the continent will be handy.
During this time I saw some very big stacks of Chinese MI and MA (over 50 tall and I think more than one), as they shifted fronts to attack Germany off Japans eastern border. Someday Japan is going to have to defeat those stacks. I guess she will need lots more units by then. China did put those stacks to good use as Germany is losing cities to China as well.
I also saw lots of ships. Ships were everywhere, all nations except Germany, clogging up shipping channels. I cant tell you how many times Japanese ships had to take alternate routes because ocean tiles had hidden subs in them.
In 1605 MPP with China expired. Japan does not renew it. China is the next target. I will stay polite and trade but do not want to be obligated to the MPP.
Bought miniaturization from Arabs for 1820 gold, bought nuclear power from England for 1580 gold. Bought spices from Mongols for Ivory, Dyes, 60 gpt and 35 gold. Japan is a republic and the extra luxurt will help unhappiness (and cheaper than upping luxury slider 10 more percent).
Somewhere along the line here I did move the luxury slider to 10%.
Rush built a transport and two battleships to move GL to new palace location. Decided I did not like positioning of New South Palace city, so Japan built one a little farther south on the coast. I named it New Groobz.
Japan passed Russia and Arabs to move into 9th place in scoring.
Japan took nine more German cities. These were mostly straight up MA attacks, with selected use of arty to assist taking out radar towers.
Moved great leader to New Groobz and rush built the palace. Abandon Temp City and New South Palace to keep the forbidden palace as a rank one city. (I had been rush building settlers to get population down in those cities.) The problem here is the balance of German cities is now in the 20 tile radius from the new palace. I plan to keep them to the end of the war then gift them to Arabs or England (the weakest civs) to minimize corruption in the 20 or so tile radius around the FP. Corruption dropped from 561 to 354 after the jump.
China is really crushing Germanys outlying cities, as Germany ends this turn with just 8 cities left. Germany no longer owns and former American or Egyptian cities.
Took six more cities from Germans, eliminating them from the game in 1635! Germany leads China and India in score by a few hundred points so they will lead in scoring for a while, but the German empire is history.
Gave four cities to England and two to Arabs. These cities were too close to the new palace, and would affect the ranking of the forbidden palace.
Bought the laser from Arabs for 1590 gold. I wanted this to upgrade 67 artillery to radar artillery.
Japan passed France for 7th place in scoring.
Income is up to 2681, corruption is -451. Japan is making +1068 gold per turn, even with the luxury slider still at 10%. At this rate she can buy a tech every other turn with a few hundred gold left over. There is over 5000 gold in the treasury right now.
Japan is going to need more workers to improve the newly acquired land quickly. Some new cities have been built in large gaps between the newly conquered cities. This will ensure every tile is worked once the population grows. With Bismarck gone I am hoping Japan will have peace for a while to prepare for the next war.
No great leaders were produced after the palace was built. Japan could use one more for a possible future palace jump to the other continent.
China is Japans main obstacle right now. If Japan can successfully weaken China then she will be almost unstoppable. I believe Japan has about 70% chance of winning this game right now. What do you think?
(I will try to post some screenshots tonight)
Great work on taking out Germany. Couple of questions
Why did you give cities to England and Arabs?
What is a palace jump?
Whats the longest way to play civ? I mean because the game finishes at 2050.. is there anyway to play a game where its really long, and you get to find out who the real winner is?
I think with you defeating Germany so early in the game, the game is definatly winnable, After China the continent is yours!, they you'll have to start on the other one
You can keep playing past 2050 if you like. There is no reason to stop there. The game uses 2050 as the end to determine a winner, but you can play as long as it takes after until you are satisfied you know who won. For this game I do not think it will take that long. There are 540 turns in a game, and I believe the halfway point is 1670 AD, so there are still 270 turns remaining. Hopefully this one will be decided well before then.
A palace jump is simply moving the palace from one city to another. There are several ways to do this:
1) Build it like any other building. This could take a long time since it takes 300 shields to build a palace, and you can't rush build it.
2) Abandon the city where your current palace is, and the palace will move to the largest city (uses a formula of native population, foreign population, ans cities within 8 tile radius). This is known as a free palace jump. Read about it here
3) Rush build it using a great leader. (This is the method I used.)
I use a palace jump to take advantage of an exploit discovered to help negate corruption. This exploit entails moving the palace far from the forbidden palace, measuring the distance between the two (about 40 tiles in this case), and then not building any cities in a circle of half that distance (20 tiles for this game) around the palace. Read this article in the war academy for a better explanation on the rank corruption exploit. It is very powerful. I had to read it a couple times to really get it.
I had to give up those cities because they were in the circle around the palace, which I had just moved to the southern tip of the continent. Each of them lowered the rank of the forbidden palace, thereby lowering the rank of all the surrounding cities. They were adversely affecting the overall production of the empire. I suppose I could have razed them, but then the Chinese would inevitably build cities there soon, and they are too big for my liking already. I gave them to the weak civs, and I am sure they will be almost worthless to them since they are so far away from their capital.
Good game here Zerksees. I've been lurking from the beginning, and to tell you honestly, I thought you would have never been able to pull it off. Just goes to show the power of a little diplomacy, and a whole lot of Artillery.
omg, this was hopeless and you ended up killing the best civ. great
Thanks zerksees, I've learn't alot from reading this. Artillary is more important than i thought.
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