Can someone explain diplomacy please?

[magnate]

I don't mean the whole thing, I mean persuading an AI leader to change his/her civics and/or religion.

I'm playing on Prince on a duel map vs. Hitler (Leaders mod). I managed to found all 7 religions, which has neatly deprived him of any benefits from religious civics until now. Now it's 1950 and I want to convert him to my religion so that he won't declare war (he's been building up a big fleet of destroyers while I've been researching ecology).

So, I bribe him with a couple of techs he's missed so he'll give me open borders. Then I notice he's using Theocracy (even though he has no religion), so I can't convert his cities. So I want to convert him to Pacifism, which I'm using.

Then I realise that sometimes my civics are listed under "adopt" and sometimes they aren't. How does this work? I mean, I can understand why they're in red, if he's just not interested, but how come they're sometimes not listed at all??

Confused,

CC

 

[Doctor Love]

Here's the way diplomacy works:

You vainly try to be friendly with some of the other civs to get technology and get defensive pacts, and 9 times out of 10 they all wind up pissed off at you anyway.

 

[obsolete]

I agree. I have found the diplomacy ratings very wrong. Many times I have given just about EVERYTHING to my so-called friends, and they will stab me in the back, even while I am trying to save their butts from someone!

I refuse to waste a cent to help out nations anymore... It just isn't worth it. One in Ten times maybe you get an ally....

 

[ketalis]

As crappy as it is, its still the most advanced/reliable diplomacy I've seen in any strategy game that doesn't heavily rely on scripting (ie paradox games). I like how you can actually see the +/- reasons behind their attitudes, even if they tend to ignore their own reasons quite often. Also, I've found the AI to be particularly unreasonable (name a game where it isnt though) when it comes to trading. For instance, I was on Noble and I had about +14 net relationship with Mansu, yet for 1 unit of iron he would accept nothing less than 1 cow, 1 aluminum, and 1 silver. What a ****er.

 

[Jantis]

I don't mean the whole thing, I mean persuading an AI leader to change his/her civics and/or religion.

I'm playing on Prince on a duel map vs. Hitler (Leaders mod). I managed to found all 7 religions, which has neatly deprived him of any benefits from religious civics until now. Now it's 1950 and I want to convert him to my religion so that he won't declare war (he's been building up a big fleet of destroyers while I've been researching ecology).

So, I bribe him with a couple of techs he's missed so he'll give me open borders. Then I notice he's using Theocracy (even though he has no religion), so I can't convert his cities. So I want to convert him to Pacifism, which I'm using.

Then I realise that sometimes my civics are listed under "adopt" and sometimes they aren't. How does this work? I mean, I can understand why they're in red, if he's just not interested, but how come they're sometimes not listed at all??

Confused,

CC

Here is how I understand it:

WHITE: The civic is listed and in white when the Civ has access to the appropriate related tech and is willing to consider switching. However, they still might refuse if you simply don't have enough "bribery" to convince them to switch.

RED: The civic is listed and in red when the Civ has access to the appropriate related tech but has no interest at all in switching.

NOT LISTED: The civic is not listed when the Civ is either already using that civic, or does not have access to the technology in order to learn the civic.

 

[magnate]

Here is how I understand it:

WHITE: The civic is listed and in white when the Civ has access to the appropriate related tech and is willing to consider switching. However, they still might refuse if you simply don't have enough "bribery" to convince them to switch.

RED: The civic is listed and in red when the Civ has access to the appropriate related tech but has no interest at all in switching.

NOT LISTED: The civic is not listed when the Civ is either already using that civic, or does not have access to the technology in order to learn the civic.

That would make a lot of sense. It's just a shame that I've seen civics not listed when I *know* he has the tech for it. Maybe this is a bug.

Anyway, I thought of a much less complicated way. I made a crappy little city, way out in the middle of the desert, gave it my religion, and then gave it to him. He adopted my religion next turn, so I spammed it to all his cities. Now I see why people think city-giving is exploitable.

CC

 

[Aelion]

I believe you're also limited by which civics you are running.

So in order for the civic to show up

1.) They must have the tech
2.) They must not be running it
3.) You must be running it

Hope that helps

 

[Jantis]

I believe you're also limited by which civics you are running.

So in order for the civic to show up

1.) They must have the tech
2.) They must not be running it
3.) You must be running it

Hope that helps

True! I missed that one. Obviously, you can't get them to convert if you don't have it yourself.

 

[Bain]

convert him to judaism =)

 

[shadow2k]

Maybe they recently switched a civic, so they can't go through any other switch for the 5 turns...?

 

[Glinka]

I've only used the "Please switch to this civic" option once, on Mansa Musa when he was well-disposed to me: probably about a +8. I had two Buddhist missionaries in his most populated towns, but he was Theocratic. No bribe was needed; he switched at once, and I converted both towns. One turn later, he converted to Buddhism.

I suspect the fact that there was no negative history between us helped, no issues of my having refused a request or even a demand. Whether the fact that Peter "the Great" was between us and more of a threat to him than anything else also had an impact, I have no idea.