[GS] Canada Discussion Thread

[Disgustipated]

Where did you see that?

post #466. Not confirmed yet, just from what it appears.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gathering-storm-screenshots-discussion-thread.638647/page-24

 

[AmazonQueen]

Moose and Elephants apparently share this in common: they are both too smart to voluntarily stick around and get shot at, and when they want to leave, there's not much that can stop them from leaving...

Battle Elephants were as often a disaster to their own side as to the enemy, as Hannibal found out at Zama, Porus at Hydaspes, and Pyrheus in almost every battle against the Romans.
The Tiger tanks of the Ancient and Classical battlefield...

I did like one wargame I had where the Romans could launch flaming bacon against the Epirote elephants as "A Side Order of Pork" but even the game authors admitted it probably never happened and only included it as an optional rule.

 

[gozon]

Aside from all the tundra stuff, the only thing Canada has going at the early game is its immunity to surprise wars.

It's like Gandhi's LA that gives enemies war weariness. Passive, and not fun.

 

[Browd]

post #466. Not confirmed yet, just from what it appears.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gathering-storm-screenshots-discussion-thread.638647/page-24

In that screenshot, it appears one pantheon had already been taken by the AI (note the empty slot in the lower right). If so, it could well have been Goddess of the Harvest.

 

[Guandao]

The only two on the list that were historically unique were Maya and Ethiopia and I have a hard time believing the modern ones replaced them. More like Mapuche and Nubia

Mapuche and Nubia are poor replacements for the Maya and Ethiopia then.
The Mapuche aren't Mesoamerican, and the Maya were definitely more important than them achievement wise.
Nubia is more like a counterpart to Egypt, as opposed to Ethiopia (early Christian nation in Africa). Maybe Georgia replaced Ethiopia?

 

[Zaarin]

Maybe Georgia replaced Ethiopia?

If so, they should have gone with Armenia, because Georgia's Eastern Orthodox, not Oriental Orthodox AKA non-Chalcedonian Christianity.

 

[King William I]

Mapuche and Nubia are poor replacements for the Maya and Ethiopia then.
The Mapuche aren't Mesoamerican, and the Maya were definitely more important than them achievement wise.
Nubia is more like a counterpart to Egypt, as opposed to Ethiopia (early Christian nation in Africa). Maybe Georgia replaced Ethiopia?

I know that, but Firaxis has a bad habit of lumping all non European areas into vague classifications.

Note how Nubia was the African civ and Hungary as Eastern European

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I did like one wargame I had where the Romans could launch flaming bacon against the Epirote elephants as "A Side Order of Pork" but even the game authors admitted it probably never happened and only included it as an optional rule.

The 'flaming pigs' anti-Elephant weapon was a staple of miniatures rules for ancient battles for a long time. Unfortunately, research by, among others, the Society of Ancients (yes, kiddies, there is a group that is as Fanatic about ancient warfare as CivFanatics are about UUs!) discovered that while pitch-covered pigs to be set alight and launched' at elephants was planned, there is no credible indication that they were used and the only account of the battle in question was decided by infantry driving the elephants back into their own lines, not Kamikaze Bacon.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Canada's reveal on Civilization.com contains the sentence "Grants bonus Diplomatic Favor based on per-turn Tourism" when talking about the ablity of Four Faces of Peace, nothing about it in the actual first look video though.

The in game language, though, is "For every 100 Tourism earn 1 Diplomatic Favor". Nothing about it being a bonus. A bonus could be extra above a base ability now granted to all civs, or it could be an extra way to get favours. The in game language leads me to believe it's the latter.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The in game language, though, is "For every 100 Tourism earn 1 Diplomatic Favor". Nothing about it being a bonus. A bonus could be extra above a base ability now granted to all civs, or it could be an extra way to get favours. The in game language leads me to believe it's the latter.

Not knowing all the specifics of the Diplomacy Game yet, it's hard for us to pass judgement on 'Diplomatic Favor', how important it is, how much is needed, or all the places it normally comes from. At this point, we're guessing...

 

[Navelgazer]

It looked from the morsel of the World Congress screen that we got that favor can be spent on Diplomatic Victory points, for one thing.

 

[jddods]

The 'flaming pigs' anti-Elephant weapon was a staple of miniatures rules for ancient battles for a long time. Unfortunately, research by, among others, the Society of Ancients

Thanks for the reminding of some pretty interesting games back in the day. I never used them but others did.

 

[King William I]

Sorry, but now all I can think about is Kamikaze Bacon

Great band name

 

[PhilBowles]

Mapuche and Nubia are poor replacements for the Maya and Ethiopia then.
The Mapuche aren't Mesoamerican, and the Maya were definitely more important than them achievement wise.
Nubia is more like a counterpart to Egypt, as opposed to Ethiopia (early Christian nation in Africa). Maybe Georgia replaced Ethiopia?

Georgia replaced Byzantium.

 

[Saltcreek]

Aside from all the tundra stuff, the only thing Canada has going at the early game is its immunity to surprise wars.

Honestly, if they just made it so Canada got +1 food/prod from Tundra tiles and make the ice rink a relatively early improvement then the civ would be alright as you could build an early culture lead. If they are going to build off the tundra theme then they should embrace it.

 

[Pietato]

Honestly, if they just made it so Canada got +1 food/prod from Tundra tiles and make the ice rink a relatively early improvement then the civ would be alright as you could build an early culture lead. If they are going to build off the tundra theme then they should embrace it.

Just make tundra plains for them.

 

[MooFreaky]

I'm curious which Civs people think aren't hilarious stereotypes.
The big difference appears to be with how modern the Civ in question is (Scotland, Canada, Australia, Brazil seem to be top of the lists) and that is because we all know a bit more about the countries in question. So we can see that it represents only a fraction of that country's history, culture or whatever.
But the older Civs the average person knows far less about so think "yeah that is totally what they were about".
For example I love Rome as a Civ (in every version) but being an area I have studied I can see that they are a hilarious stereotype of what the Empire actually was, whereas my mates who haven't just see a pretty accurate representation of Rome because when you say Rome people think "Legions".

It's more about the overall feel of the Civ. And when you have a unit, a building and a couple of abilities how are you not going to make it a stereotype?

As an Aussie with Scottish parents, when I think of Australia I think of the outback and kangaroos. We all sing Waltzing Matilda (and there are pushes to make it our national anthem from time to time...) and the boxing kangaroo on a gold & green background is iconic Australia.
And due to my parents I grew up around bagpipes, golf and kilts. Everyone loves the stories of Braveheart, despite knowing that wasn't his Wallace's name, nor that he never accomplished half of what the stories say. But the image of highland warriors is awe inspiring for virtually all the Scots I know. Stereotypes aren't bad just because they are stereotypes.

 

[Pietato]

Or make it so that bonus resources give extra food/production in tundra.

Highanders were the guys who served the British. Or became the only one.

 

[Arianrhod]

preferably without talking about missing civs.

I would encourage you to explain why this is not a valid reason, when we have roughly ten of them that would be better suited for the game in every manner except for a petty marketing boost, and at least one of them is getting cut even if a third expansion happens as a result of Canada.

Don't bury your head in the sand and pretend that opportunity cost doesn't exist. Argue why Canada has more merit than all of them, or it's a bad civ.

 

[DWilson]

Going by that there's quite a lot of things that would have to be cut from the game. Not everything has to have had an important role in history for it to be included.

For example, the Minas Geraes comes to mind.

A giant, rubbish piece of the map to yourself.

I mean, that seems okay. They can probably handle sub-perfect land for peace and comfort. It makes me think of Canada IRL, honestly.