canada discussion
- Thread starter Tronicoz
- Start date
Clovis
Charlemagne's Grandfather
No. It was a british colony, and still has not reached much international importance. That's my opinion, but feel free to disagree.
On the other hand, some people could argue the U.S. is of little internation importance also!
On the other hand, some people could argue the U.S. is of little internation importance also!
Bongo-Bongo
The Master
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Khmer, Ethopia, Vietnam, the Dutch, Portugese, Mayans, Byzantines, Sumerians, Babylonians, Siam. They all have vibrant histories, and have had an impact on either their region, or even the entire world.
So what about Canada? Mounties? Celine Dion? No thanks.
So what about Canada? Mounties? Celine Dion? No thanks.
Comrade Aart
Civ1 diplomat
Although I respect Canada and also acknowledge Canadian participatian in WWII (which most nations DON'T), it wouldn't be correct to add Canada to civ. Sorry.
I don't mind, but since they can only put a certain amount of civ/leaders I will vote no, simply because there's more interesting candidates. Personally I would like to see newer nations such as Canada, Australia, Brazil, Mexico (I know there is the Aztecs, but I'm talking about modern Mexico) .. it could be very fun to play, but unfortunatly I doubt we will see them in epic civ. Just my 2c
kristopherb
Protective/Charismatic
you took the words right out of my mouth.
Phoenix1595
Lord of the Two Lands
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If I may, I'd like to use a real-world argument I heard a few months back from a historian on CSPAN re: why America and Canada are viewed differently in terms of impact on the world. I think it implies well to Civilization too. This isn't an anti-Canada post, but rather an explanation of why two seemingly similar nations are not judged the same in regards to the history of civilization. I apologize in advance for the paraphrasing, but this was the gist the argument:
America is influential on the world's historical stage because it was able to forge a unique and (at the time) innovative cultural identity that Canada could not. World history has a good idea of what it is to be "American" or to have the "American dream": a nation built upon the idea of democratic innovation, multiculturalism, and the desire to rise from an impoverished immigrant to a prosperous "American." While Canada also holds the ideals, they never capitalized on them culturally, as America did. They never encapusated a "Canadian dream" or shown the world what it is to be a "Canadian."
Basically, although America's sister colonies of Canada and Australia went on to become great countries, they have not had the impact on general civilization as America has. I think when Firaxis decides which civs to include in the game, one of the major criteria that they consider is the civ's impact on civilization as a whole, and how history changed because of them (good or bad). Canada is just not there yet.
America is influential on the world's historical stage because it was able to forge a unique and (at the time) innovative cultural identity that Canada could not. World history has a good idea of what it is to be "American" or to have the "American dream": a nation built upon the idea of democratic innovation, multiculturalism, and the desire to rise from an impoverished immigrant to a prosperous "American." While Canada also holds the ideals, they never capitalized on them culturally, as America did. They never encapusated a "Canadian dream" or shown the world what it is to be a "Canadian."
Basically, although America's sister colonies of Canada and Australia went on to become great countries, they have not had the impact on general civilization as America has. I think when Firaxis decides which civs to include in the game, one of the major criteria that they consider is the civ's impact on civilization as a whole, and how history changed because of them (good or bad). Canada is just not there yet.
As i see it, a civilisation should only be added if it has a "golden age", that meaning an era when it affected the world monumentally, and to such an extent it is near impossible to imagine the world without it, or its "golden age".
E.g, a world in which England had never emerged would have been amazingly different, America, Canada, S.Africa, Australia, New Zealand wouldn't be speaking English, (probably french instead).
There is no such "golden age" for Canada, for the same reason i oppose the native Americans being added as a civilisation, especially since the word "civilised" comes from the latin meaning city dweller, and as the Native Americans had no cities i cannot undeerstand their entry.
Anyway, i think only civs of VITAL world improtance and history should be added, personally i would like Canada, Australia and New Zealand to be added, but they just weren't history altering.
E.g, a world in which England had never emerged would have been amazingly different, America, Canada, S.Africa, Australia, New Zealand wouldn't be speaking English, (probably french instead).
There is no such "golden age" for Canada, for the same reason i oppose the native Americans being added as a civilisation, especially since the word "civilised" comes from the latin meaning city dweller, and as the Native Americans had no cities i cannot undeerstand their entry.
Anyway, i think only civs of VITAL world improtance and history should be added, personally i would like Canada, Australia and New Zealand to be added, but they just weren't history altering.
CrazyMrLeo
Wild Child
As fun as it would be to play as my home country, I could probably think of a good 50 others that I'd want to see in the game first. The United States represents North American civilization pretty well already, whereas areas like Southeast Asia and Oceania are painfully underrepresented.
Hero
NPC
Canada > Poland, but still, No.
Tommy1234567890
Warlord
I agree, I would like to see more Southeast Asia civ.Dont know much about oceania, was there a civilization there?
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
I'm Canadian and have a realistic sense of perspective regarding my nation's place in history and the world, which leads me to say no. I'm proud of my country and would not want to live anywhere else, but while we have contributed to recent history and even a few major events in it, we are not among the true movers and shakers. At least not so far. 
We're just a nice little country burdened by too much snow. 
I also say that because I think the Canada Mod by Wyz_sub10 et al far surpasses for sheer fun anything that Firaxis is likely to include. From the sound pack to the world wonders, it's much more irreverent than the built-in civs.
The only reason why Firaxis would include Canada would be marketing, and that's assuming Canadians make up a substantial segment of Civ's fans. I get the impression we're pretty vocal, going by this board, but I don't know if we're that large of a target market. Besides, lots of people the world over love to pretend to be Caesar or Genghis Khan, but how many people really want to pretend to be Pierre Trudeau?
We're just a nice little country burdened by too much snow. I also say that because I think the Canada Mod by Wyz_sub10 et al far surpasses for sheer fun anything that Firaxis is likely to include. From the sound pack to the world wonders, it's much more irreverent than the built-in civs.
The only reason why Firaxis would include Canada would be marketing, and that's assuming Canadians make up a substantial segment of Civ's fans. I get the impression we're pretty vocal, going by this board, but I don't know if we're that large of a target market. Besides, lots of people the world over love to pretend to be Caesar or Genghis Khan, but how many people really want to pretend to be Pierre Trudeau?
Wodan
Deity
Gamefreak10000
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2006
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i'm from canada and i think that people want canada because it's cool to have there nation in the game
Ishon
Warlord
Definitely no. If Canada, then why not Australia, South Africa, Brazil, Argentina? Almost no history, no single wonder (Brazil has one -> Brazil beats Canada).
The only late civilization that deserves a civ is the U.S. because of their huge importance in the 20th and 21st century (so far). They've got several civ wonders too - even though the game is clearly biased in favor of America.
Portugal, the Netherlands, Poland > Canada, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand.
The only late civilization that deserves a civ is the U.S. because of their huge importance in the 20th and 21st century (so far). They've got several civ wonders too - even though the game is clearly biased in favor of America.
Portugal, the Netherlands, Poland > Canada, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand.
gettingfat
Emperor
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As a Canadian, I think what you cited is fairly misleading.
You think that Canada does not have a strong democratic value, or more liberal idealism?
You think the immigrants to Canada don't have a dream? I am an immigrant, and I like Canada. I have tons of immigrant friends, coming from different parts of the planet, they all love here.
Multiculturalism? Stop kidding. Canada is WAY more culturally tolerant. As a Chinese, I feel like myself in Canada. I lived in US for over a year, and I had to be like an American at that time.
So instead of claiming the US for being more able to capitalize "culturally", I'd rather attribute it to the stronger economy of US when compared to Canada. I don't care how horrible a big-Mac tastes (OK...one big-Mac is fine with me, try a few in a week, it tastes like xxxx), by putting enough money to hardsell it and package it, it will "taste good". Make it simple, the so-called American "culture" is basically 95% a product of commericalization and aggressive marketing supported by strong funding.
Then you may challenge, why do the Americans do a better job in economy than the Canadians? Doesn't it imply superior cultural value, or superior education system, or superior whatever in the US? As a Chinese, I don't find much "culture" in the US. As a post-doc when living in the US, from what I saw IMHO an average American college student is not as knowledgeable and smart as an average Canadian student at similar level.
What it basically comes down to is the US occupied a stretch of land with better weather and more readily available resources (and the much larger population and thus a bigger market as a result). Say one day God (or whatever, just fill in the blank) freezes half of your land. I'd really want to see how culturally vibrant you guys will become.
The average canadian also has read guns germs and steel more often than the american.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Whereever it comes from, gettingfat has a point.
America's hegemony is not merely because of culture. Switzerland has a lot of cutlure too, but you don't see them dominating international affairs.
America became an economic powerhouse. There were some sociol, political, geographical, and, yes, cultural factors that led to that, but without that economic result, America would be a footnote in world history. Monetary clout led to military and political clout, and still backs it up.
America's hegemony is not merely because of culture. Switzerland has a lot of cutlure too, but you don't see them dominating international affairs.
America became an economic powerhouse. There were some sociol, political, geographical, and, yes, cultural factors that led to that, but without that economic result, America would be a footnote in world history. Monetary clout led to military and political clout, and still backs it up.
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