canada discussion

[csar508]

I couldn't name a canadian leader.

 

[XxtraLarGe]

I noticed the History of Canada failed to mention any of the fine contributions made to the world by Bob & Doug Mackenzie.

Anyway, here's a few fun suggestions for a Canadian Civilization:

Leader: Brian Mulroney?
Famous Artists: John Candy, Dan Akroyd, etc.
Unique Units: Hockey Player (Warrior w/Shock) Mounty (Cav w/Mobility)
Unique Building: Tim Horton's, +2 Happiness, -2 Health,
Pigs (Back Bacon!!!) and Wheat (Beer!!!) give +1 Happiness
Canadians also suffer +100% war weariness, cities captured or lost by Canada have half the period of civil unrest, and Canadian cities have a tendency to flip if they are located next to French cultural borders

 

[Antilogic]

You really have a lot of things to say, firstly Russia is the most plentiful nation in the world for resources, along with having the largest land area. By super sonic "yet" i assume you mean jet, which s incorrect, since the jet engine was invented by Whittle, who was British, and the earliest jet experiments were done by the British and Germans, we (the british) had a upersonic jet ready to use, but the governemnt decided to pull the plug on financing. The Atomic bomb may have had Canadian minerals, but the early plans and a great deal of the scientists were from the university of Brimingham, Einstein was German, as was many of the scientists working on the bomb. It was not a huge American effort, but instead a multi-national effort out of sheer desperation.

Furthermore, things like member of G7, or largest road in the world aren't spectacular in Civ terms, especially since the game shows 8,000 of human history.

Fastest growing economy, that would be China, nationalised health service is also something Canada cannot copyright, the British implemeted this as off 1945, it is Cuba that has the best health care system, second to Scandanivian countries.

Again you say that if Canada was removed from the world tommorow the world economy would collapse, i agree, but if you removed France, China, Germany, Britain the same would happen, if China disappered the world economy would shatter into a million pieces. Canada supplies a vast amount of grain, more than the US does, although its often forgotten that Canadian farmers destroy tons of their crops to keep prices up, while millions starve to death in Africa.

You say the Canadian impact on WW1 and WW2 was very important, even implying that the wars might have been lost Canada, these kind of statements can be found from anyone around the world. The fact remains that in WW1 Germany wasn't beaten on the battlesfield, but at home, it was the British blockade that bought Germany to its knees the people revolted, the Armies were ill-equiped and the nation revolted, although everyone likes to think the men who died in the trenches died for freedom against oppresion the fact remains that they're duper0human efoort did very litttle to contribute to the final defeat of the Germans. The second world war was won by Russia, not the west, over 90% of the German armed forces died in the war against the USSR.

Fnially the telephone and TV were invented by a Scottish men. Not to mention the telegraph which was more influential and world changing than both the TV and phone., with the pioneer of television being Nazi Germany, who had the furst running service.

I like Canada, but it has not altered world history to an extent large enough to warrant its entry into Civ 4, especially since other civs like Byzantium, Maya, Babylon, Saffanids etc. would lose their place.

Oh finially japan is the most advandced nation in the world Technologically(in the civliain market place at least), they're about five years ahead of the US in that area, while most electonics are from Japan or S.Korea, or at least their designs are.

p.s. Aussie Lurker when i said Native Americans i ment tribes such as Urqoius, not the Mayans, Aztecs and Incas, sorry, its my own mistake. I still believe that point to be valid, that even if the native american tribes did settle down into towns, they surely wouldn't number in the hundreds of thousands as other cities of the day.

Bravo. You beat me to a lot of this. The moment I read those posts, it seems as if Canuk99 was remembering a slightly different history than the one I did.

Also, Canuk99, you could have reduced that timeline a little. Events like this:

1834
York is renamed Toronto.
1834-35
William Lyon Mackenzie becomes the first mayor of Toronto.
1854
Canada and the U.S. sign a Reciprocity Treaty, ensuring reduction of customs duties (June 6).
1855
Bytown is renamed Ottawa.
1948
Louis St. Laurent succeeds Mackenzie as prime minister (Nov. 15).
1972
Canada wins the first hockey challenge against the Soviets.


...really don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Oh wow, they renamed a city? That's Civ-material right there! Somebody became mayor? Amazing! It's not like that happens in dozens of other countries! And that '72 hockey game really changed the way the world viewed the Soviets--thanks Canada, for giving the Reds a pasting they will never, ever forget. You could have taken the time to try and refine your posts a little more than pollute the boards with this overcrowding of information that I have to sift through. Also, if a mayor happens to be very influential for some reason, don't just post a name and a date--tell us why he is important and what he did differently that changed how the world viewed mayorship. Just a little constructive criticism.

 

[rabidveggie]

As a Canadian my opinion is kind of biased, after all we all want our country represented, but I feel its better then another American leader.
Canada has a strong culture, made up of not one original one but a hybrid from the many different people from all corners of the world. Unlike our neighbors to the south we do not endorse the "melting pot" approach. Its true Canada is not very old, but we have contributed immensely on the world stage. By the end of WWI Canada had the forth largest navy in the world and played a major role in the Battle of Ypres holding the line in the face of chemical warfare and overwhelming odds. We took the once thought impregnable Vimy Ridge in a matter of hours, and had over one million men over seas. In WW2 we were a major supplier of recourse and manpower to the besieged Britain making up a large percentage of RAF pilots. On D-Day Canada took Juno Beach, the most fortified beach next to Omaha and came the closest to reaching their objective. We fought through Sicily, and up Italy despite facing the top German paratroops division. After WW2 we fought in Korea, halting a Chineese offensive that would have pushed the ally line back kilometers. During the Suez crisis Canada's UN representative Lester Pearson proposed and mediated the formation of a force under UN control preventing the UN from deteriorating and prevented a nuclear standoff between the US and Soviet Union. As for leaders we have a few worthy of the honor. I personally would back William Lyon Mackenzie King because he kept the country together through WW2 and conscription and because he held sconces to see his dogs and to speak with Wilfrid Laurier.
At the very least Canada should go in over Abe Lincoln who led his people in a war against itself. He probably only got in due to his tragic ending caused by a bullet. Although he did lead the war well and stood up for equality.

 

[Virulent]

As a Canadian I would be very happy to see Canada added as a civ. But realistically I know it's not going to happen.

As for leaders I would choose:

John A MacDonald (our first prime minister)
Pierre Trudeau (who I personally don't like but I understand how important he was to the history of our nation)

 

[Technocactus]

There are other actual civilizations that deserve it rather than a marginally important modern nation.

QFT.

Canada has not had such a huge impact on the modern world.

 

[Wodan]

As a Canadian my opinion is kind of biased, after all we all want our country represented, but I feel its better then another American leader.
At the very least Canada should go in over Abe Lincoln who led his people in a war against itself. He probably only got in due to his tragic ending caused by a bullet. Although he did lead the war well and stood up for equality.

Please recognize the programming labor differences in what you're discussing:

Lincoln:
-- graphic design a leaderhead
-- write Civopedia entry for leaderhead
-- research traits
-- program the traits and leader

Canada:
-- graphic design a leaderhead
-- write Civopedia entry for leaderhead
-- research traits
-- program the traits and leader
-- research nation
-- write Civopedia entry for nation
-- program new nation
-- research a UB
-- game design the UB
-- graphic design the UB
-- write Civopedia entry for UB
-- research a UU
-- game design the UU
-- graphic design the UU
-- write Civopedia entry for UU
-- graphic design the unit flag and other nation-specific textures

What am I forgetting? I dunno. Point is that there are limited labor resources. You can't just throw out a comparison without considering the costs to develop each one.

Wodan

 

[Antilogic]

At the very least Canada should go in over Abe Lincoln who led his people in a war against itself. He probably only got in due to his tragic ending caused by a bullet. Although he did lead the war well and stood up for equality.

I'm not going to sit here and argue individual battles, but in general, Civs don't always get in on their individual battle credentials. However, I felt this is quite an unusual way of looking at Abe.

Abraham Lincoln was perhaps the greatest orator in the history of the United States, and I think there are few that can compete with him. And the "war against itself" does not begin to describe what happened in the United States at that time. That worthless doucebag President Buchanan (sorry, any Buchanan fans out there, but I'm going on record as saying he is the worst US president) decided it would be a crackerjack idea to betray his oath to protect the union and do squat to end an insurrection that, although the South cloaked itself in the values of states rights, was truly about the right to oppress others. Lincoln, unlike his immediate predecessor, takes a stand against this hypocrisy and abolishes slavery by the end of the war. Abraham Lincoln's cabinet was a surprise and completely alien to the politics of the day--he invited people of opposing viewpoints and political parties to serve with him, and probably even deserves the award of most ethical US president. I've heard arguments that the Revolution started in 1776 but ended after Lincoln with universal male suffrage (and that has been extended further to the 1920's for female suffrage).

To say his assassination is what made him famous is not true, even amongst historically-challenged Americans. He's a man who led a crusade against injustice and in the end won. You can head on over to the history thread if you want to debate the specifics, but that statement really doesn't capture anything about his personality whatsoever.

 

[Quagga]

Famous Artists: John Candy, Dan Akroyd, etc.

Lest you forget Geddy Lee?

 

[chad187]

i think ethiopia should be in the game they have a long history and were the only african country to defeat the europeans

 

[Babbler]

I'm Canadian, and I don't see belonging in the main game. It's not I don't think it is a great country (it is), but in the grand scheme of things, we play second fiddle to the States.

 

[Gamefreak10000]

looks maybe we should just agree that canada is a very culteral and is very economic but has no large influence on history. i wish it did so it could be in the game i'm proud to be a canadien

 

[gettingfat]

Personally I don't think Canada belongs to the main game. That said, I think there are a number of undeserving leaders in the game as well.

If Canada is desired, Firaxis can try that. This will be good for those players who want a real challenge.

Leader: Brian Mulroney

Leader traits: disorganized - double maintainence; uncharismatic - minus 1 happiness, -2 with broadcast tower

UB: provincial government office (replace court, increase maintainence, -1 happiness and occasional anarchy because "we want to join our motherland" when France is also in the game, will be automatically added to your build queue once Code of Laws is discovered, this can't be deleted)

UU: unionized slow worker (1 movement, 50% work speed, double unit cost). Either you want no tile improvement or inefficient, costly workers, pick your poison.

 

[Gamefreak10000]

Personally I don't think Canada belongs to the main game. That said, I think there are a number of undeserving leaders in the game as well.

If Canada is desired, Firaxis can try that. This will be good for those players who want a real challenge.

Leader: Brian Mulroney

Leader traits: disorganized - double maintainence; uncharismatic - minus 1 happiness, -2 with broadcast tower

UB: provincial government office (replace court, increase maintainence, -1 happiness and occasional anarchy because "we want to join our motherland" when France is also in the game, will be automatically added to your build queue once Code of Laws is discovered, this can't be deleted)

UU: unionized slow worker (1 movement, 50% work speed, double unit cost). Either you want no tile improvement or inefficient, costly workers, pick your poison.

wow thats cold

 

[csar508]

ricky from trailer park boys would be a good canadian leader

 

[Sisiutil]

wow thats cold

Accurate, though. And... funny!

 

[Mehmed100]

I would love to have Canada included in a an expansion, but I think there are more worthy civilizations out there who haven't yet been included.

 

[Quagga]

^^ Yes, such as the Lost Civilization of Atlantis.

 

[rabidveggie]

Sorry antilogic I meant no offense to Lincoln and understand he was a good leader. I just don't think he deserves to be a Civ 4 leader although he was one of my first guesses for one of the fifteen new leaders. I also realized after posting that it would take alot more work to create a new nation over a new leader. Canada really has never been a world power and their are far more civs more deserving of a spot in the expansion, but their are quite a few weak civs added in the previous, and new expansion. To say Canada has not done anything on the world stage is bs in my opinion, at least we didn't interfere with other countries by training them and giving them guns to later invade them, or overthrow a democracy to gain control of their oil to later call it one of the "three axis of evil" *cough* Iran. Well thats my rant for the day.

 

[Gamefreak10000]

canada may not be powerful but we have alot inventions made here i was watching a show and apperently two canadiens sold there invention to someone that person that bought the invention was thomas edison and the invention was the lightbulb