Capto Iugulum Background Thread

[Jehoshua]

Putting ideologies on a left-right spectrum is poor practice and tends to produce inaccurate and reductionistic characterisations.

 

[Terrance888]

Orange and blue spectrums, on the otherhand, are much more effective.

 

[Grandkhan]

@EQ: do you still have the 1853 - 1900 histories somewhere? I want to make wiki articles for the Centroamerican countries but I can't remember a whole lot of the.dates for New Spanish stuff.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Most of those are included in the currently extant background threads, but here's the American ones that I used for the 1900 start:

Spoiler :

The Americas​

Argentina: After the end of the Brazilian and Argentine intervention in Uruguay, Argentina underwent a substantial period of peaceful prosperity. Lucrative trade agreements and deals with the British Empire would bring in vast wealth and hordes of immigrants. Argentina had several periods of instability, dealing with the predominantly English-speaking immigrants, who quickly became a dominant force in Argentine politics. Thanks to the influence of these wealthy individuals, the first British president would be elected in 1881, as more and more British migrants spread and populated throughout Argentina's cities. Internationally, the Argentines have remained fairly isolated beyond local pacts with the Brazilians, though they did intervene in 1871 against a brutal dictator in Chile, establishing a local democracy. Furthermore, Argentina worked with the Empire of Brazil in a several year long war to restore democracy to Paraguay in 1874, cementing the alliance and friendship between the two powers. This would be tested in the Colombian War of 1886, when Argentina and Brazil challenged the American invasion of Colombia. The war would result in a victory for the allied states and the United States was forced to withdraw not only from Colombia, but also New Spain. In 1900, Argentina is the militarily weakest of the three strongest nations in South America, but still possesses a large amount of resources and a decent industrial base for economics.

Brazil: The Empire of Brazil under Emperor Pedro II was peaceful and prosperous, attracting waves of immigrants from Europe, as well as developing a strong industrial base. This proved wise as coffee and other resources became challenged by sources in other markets, and the staples of Brazil's economy ultimately shifted. The shift from the plantation system ultimately resulted in a gradual weakening of slavery in Brazil, and the upper classes were content to see it depart, particularly with words and rumors out of the other slaveocracy in the United States of America. In the final years of Pedro II's reign, a war was fought to end a dictatorship established in Paraguay, and soon after Brazil welcomed Peru as an independent nation near the tail end of the Spanish Civil War. In 1876, emancipation was passed for the slaves of Brazil, with limited compensation for what few slave owners remained. Not long after, Emperor Pedro II died, the most beloved monarch of the Brazilian people. His daughter was proclaimed Empress Isabel, and under her rule, Brazil continued to grow and prosper. The Empress would face her greatest challenge when despite Brazilian warnings, the United States of America would invade Colombia in 1886. The Brazilian navy displayed its abilities in this conflict, humiliating the American fleet, and winning a decisive victory. Unfortunately, success on the high seas did not translate to success on the ground, and an invasion of Panama failed, though the Brazilians were able to achieve enough victories to secure the independence of both Colombia and the occupied states of New Spain. In 1900, Brazil's navy is still the best in the Western Hemisphere, if not the largest. The risk of the United States pushing south once again is still ominously looming over Brazil, as clouds darken for war once again.

Chile: Chile proved to be a troubled nation in 1852, after a sortie by Brazil's navy reduced their own fleets to timbers. The reign of General Jose Hernandez continued to be plagued with uprisings and instability until his death in bed in 1858. After he died, with Argentine support, a new republic was established and proved to be fairly successful for a time. Unfortunately a candidate known as Lorenzo Vasquez was elected in 1866, and immediately assumed dictatorial powers and position. After only five years, a Argentine intervention led to the ouster of the dictator and the establishment of yet another Argentine backed democracy in Chile. This new republic would last twenty years until it was overthrown in a military coup by General Marquez Delgado, who declared martial law. The new military government has done much to expand the army and military strength of Chile, decrying Brazilian and Argentine interventionism. Delgado has built new ties with Peru and Venezuela, hoping to break Chilean domination by neighboring Argentina.

Colombia: Colombia in 1852 had finally begun to recovering from the devastating losses it had suffered in the few years it had been independent from Spain. As a democratic republic it was restoring economic security and new trading relationships with South America and Europe. Unfortunately the prosperity would come to an end in 1858, with an invasion by Venezuela. The Venezuelans launched their vicious attack and campaign, humiliating the Colombians in a prolong two year war. The Colombians were forced to cede their largest Atlantic port and several other provinces in the east. The result was an economic spiral and extreme poverty which continued for quite some time, making Colombia one of the most backward nations in South America. In 1886, the United States of America exploited this vulnerable position to extend their own manifest destiny to South America. The Colombians faced overwhelming numbers but called for aid and it came in the form of the Brazilian and Argentine alliance. These saviors managed to help Colombia oust the American invaders, and maintain their independence. In the years following, the Colombian republic has grown closer and closer to Brazil and Argentina, economically and politically. By 1900, the economic situation has begun to reverse itself as its new trading ties and stable democracy seem to be leading it to a much brighter future.

Ecuador: King Simon I ruled Ecuador for decades following the nation gaining its independence from the Republic of New Granada. He had the unwavering support of Ecuador's military until his death in 1864. His son was crowned King Simon II and continued to rule with the full support of the army, preserving economic ties with various European powers and keeping Ecuador isolated from warfare and petty international politics. Near the end of his reign however, the disparity between his wealth and the wealth of the people was growing too obvious and the military was starting to favor the creation of a new government. Therefore when Simon II died in 1883, his son Simon III ruled for less than a year before he was deposed and exiled to Peru. A democracy was established, which lasted barely a decade before it was also overthrown in a de facto coup. The new President Felix Martinez has been noted as one of the most corrupt autocrats in the world, and is highly unpopular both at home and abroad.

Jamaica: Jamaica would languish under the iron heel of General Philip Burton for much of the 1800s, until his death in 1867. After Burton died, a new republic was established with a new constitution, forever forbidding military interference in the government. The new Jamaican republic has gone out of its way to ingratiate itself with a number of major powers, fearing the massive might of the nearby United States of America. This has been seen with growing trade with both the United Kingdom and Spain, as Jamaica seeks to preserve its independence from the belligerent Americans. In 1900, Jamaica's economy is in a bit of a downturn as its locally grown products are becoming supplanted by other nations which sell sugar more cheaply. With a faltering economy, the nation is becoming increasingly less stable, as they still fear the threat of an American invasion.

Mayan Republic: The Mayan Republic would achieve its long fought independence in 1854, as new wars in Europe forced the Spanish at last to the negotiating table. The Spanish agreed to vacate the Mayan Republic completely, but in the process proceeded to steal everything that wasn't nailed down, including the local colonial treasury and as much money and goods as they could from the port. This immediately soured the relationship between the two nations and the Mayans began to seek out new relationships and trading partners. Unfortunately, no sooner than the Mayans had become independent, they were attacked by New Spain within a month of the Spanish evacuation. The Mayans were initially set back, but with militias and limited support from sympathetic Spaniards in Cuba, eventually fought the New Spanish to a stalemate, ending the war in 1856. Between both the Spanish and New Spanish, the Mayans were forced to spend the next nearly fifty years in recovery. They were unable and unwilling to intervene when the United States of America first invaded Panama and then New Spain. They were further incapable of playing a role when Brazil challenged the American invasion of Colombia, choosing instead to offer token support and sympathy for the American cause. The Mayans have continued to find at least a trading and commercial relationship with the United States, but remain ever wary of betrayal.

New Spain: The death of long time President Carlos Rivera in 1852 was later seen as the beginning of the decline of the United States of New Spain. The independence of the Mayan Republic and the withdrawal of Spain in 1854 was seen as a golden opportunity to Rivera's successor, and an invasion was launched. Though the war started well, the Mayans were already entrenched in positions to resist an invasion from years of guerilla warfare against Spain. Ultimately the Mayans managed to defeat New Spain's invasion and establish a peace securing the Mayan Republic's separation from New Spain. This major bloody defeat would set in motion a series of riots and coup attempts from which New Spain never recovered. In the hopes of restoring at least some international prestige, New Spain challenged the American invasion of Panama in 1861, but found themselves woefully outmatched. Panama was quickly conquered by the American armies, and New Spain soon found itself invaded as well. New Spain was officially annexed by the United States of America in 1864, temporarily ending their independence. Though many had died in the war, a small-scale insurgency continued throughout the period of American occupation until the Colombia War broke out in 1886. A Brazilian invasion in late 1887 brought about a major uprising in New Spain against American rule which ultimately led to the Americans' retreat. The treaty ending the war enabled New Spain to be independent once more, though the United States remains rooted in Panama. Since the end of the Colombia War, New Spain has begun the long process of rebuilding and has established new economic ties with Brazil and Argentina, hoping to resist the Americans for the inevitable second confrontation.

Paraguay: Paraguay's economy and stable democracy would serve as the envy of South America for years after President de Francia had given up his rule. Paraguay was involved in the intervention in Uruguay and continued to build an economic and political alliance with both Brazil and Argentina. Unfortunately, an ambitious general named Antonio Santos overthrew the democracy in 1866, and continued to rule, looting the nation's wealth and resources to feed his lavish lifestyle. In 1872, after years of sanctions failed to produce change, Argentina and Brazil invaded, hoping to restore the republic. The invasion proved successful with Santos' death in battle in 1874, and the allied nations established a new republic in Paraguay. The new republic proved equally successful to the old and began new prosperous ties with both Brazil and Argentina, remaining economically and politically linked to those two powers.

Peru: Peru was for a time the most loyal and prosperous of the colonies of Imperial Spain. They stood with Spain, even as the rest of South America revolted and declared independence, but this traditional platform began to change. The loss of the Mayan Republic, and the outbreak of civil war in 1869 soon brought new independent thought to Peru. The Peruvians revolted from Spanish control near the end of the war, exhausted by the demands put upon them by both warring factions in Iberia. The new government established was a centralized monarchy in Lima with a corresponding legislature. The new kingdom maintained close ties with the victorious Emperor Philip IX and one of his distant cousins would serve as Peru's first monarch, King Carlos. The king would reign benevolently, and was highly popular among the people of Peru until his death in 1890. King Juan has preserved Peru's position as a trading partner, but sits uneasy against the growing influence of Brazil and Argentina's dangerous alliance.

United States of America: The United States of America came out of the War of the American Presidency with a new government and a new outlook. The restoration of Jacksonia in 1853 would prove as the first step towards the establishment of a true new regime. A new Constitution was created in 1856 and signed off upon, granting the right to vote and rule only to those who had served in the military. The new American government proved relentless in pursuit of the ideal American Manifest Destiny, ultimately leading to the invasion of Panama in 1861. The entry of New Spain into the conflict proved to be only a minor speed bump in the conquest of the region, providing more lands for American business to exploit. After the end of the war in Panama, the United States turned inward for a time, and this period saw a series of genocidal conflicts against the native tribes of the United States. By 1883, any native American tribes within the borders of the United States of America were extinct or managed to flee through equally hostile Vinlanders into the far north. Similarly, the institution of slavery, dispute lukewarm calls to abolish it, changed during this period. The supremacy of industry and the mechanization of agriculture initially began diminishing the usefulness of slaves. However, some ambitious southerners began a process of integrating agriculture with industry. These new "super plantations" incorporated the growth of cotton and other cash crops with the production of related industrial goods, combining the resources of a number of former plantations. The United States would face its greatest international challenge in 1886 when it attempted to further territorial control by invading Colombia. Unfortunately the interference of Brazil and Argentina resulted in a humiliating naval defeat and the loss of the occupied states of New Spain. Afterwards, the United States would face a minor slave rebellion in 1894, but has continued to consolidate and rebuild their power in further pursuit of their Manifest Destiny.

Uruguay: The intervention in Uruguay by Brazil and Argentina proved to be a turning point in this nation's history. The Uruguayans began then their long process of recovery and the restoration of a republic. This time, the republic would take full hold of Uruguay's position, and they were clearly under the economic and political influence of both Brazil and Argentina. Large amounts of wealth began to flow through Uruguay, restoring the nation fairly quickly, particularly as peace reigned in the region. The Uruguayans would remain neutral from a number of wars and petty conflicts in the region, though they did send a volunteer brigade to assist in the liberation of Paraguay in 1874. When war broke out with the United States of America in 1886, Uruguay remained neutral, though they did participate in the South American trade embargo. Ultimately Uruguayan mediation led to an end to the war, but since then they have grown closer to Brazil. The republic continues to stand as a beacon towards prosperity and growth, thanks to secure borders with friendly nations, and growing trade throughout the region.

Venezuela: Despite several military coup attempts and revolts throughout the 1850s and 1860s, Carlos Soublette would remain the absolute dictator of Venezuela until his death in 1870. In 1858, he used his newly centralized army and navy to wage war upon Colombia, hoping to expand his control and influence in South America. The war turned out to be an astonishing success, smashing the Colombians, and capturing Bogota in early 1860. The Colombians were forced to cede to all the Venezuelan demands, turning over a number of disputed eastern provinces. Under Soublette, Venezuela continued to prosper from trade with both Spain and the United States of America. This lucrative trade caused Venezuela to turn a blind eye to the American invasion of Panama in 1861, and the annexation of that state and New Spain. The death of Carlos Soublette in 1870 would lead to the creation of a new constitution and democracy, creating a stable republic. The republic would continue throughout the remainder of the 1800s, profiting from trade with their traditional partners. Venezuela alienated themselves from the rest of South America in the 1880s when they offered support and aid for the American invasion of Colombia, becoming rich off the sale of goods to the American armies. In 1900, Venezuela is a pariah among other South American states, and it has suffered economically, though they continue to possess strong ties with the Americans and Spaniards.

Vinland: Vinland's road to independence proved to be a long one, starting in the early nineteenth century with the border disputes with American settlers to the south. Ultimately Vinlander militias would serve as the base to the growing nationalist movement, and a minor revolt against Scandinavian authority in 1863 involved less than a hundred people but would still spark reform. In 1865, the Kingdom of Vinland was proclaimed, with Queen Christina as the de facto monarch. She retained numerous pieces of authority, but true rule began to quickly pass to an elected legislature. In 1895, after Queen Christina's second publically acknowledged stroke, Vinland's elected body declared her unfit for rule and appointed a new king, known as King Conrad. King Conrad would die only four years later, passing rule to his son Ingvar, who is now the king of the independent state. In 1900, Vinland still recognizes the de jure authority of the Scandinavian emperor, but possesses full control of all domestic and foreign policies. They continue a close friendship with Scandinavia, fearful of the belligerent and barbaric American eagle to their south.

 

[Grandkhan]

Cheers. The Building the 20th Century thread says that they've been moved, and I can't seem to find them anywhere. It would be great if you could put them back in the Building the 20th Century thread, just so that people could look up dates and things.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Well technically they were moved here, and updated to 1920. Most of the nations I'm pretty sure didn't have any key information removed, but I can understand why it might be needed for some of the countries involved. If any other sections are requested I will post them on this thread.

 

[Grandkhan]

New Spain is up, I'll do the actual successor nations later I guess.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Ah, that original Vinlandic Flag.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

I work with what I've got. Eventually, assuming you don't do it, going to have to go through and look for all of your great posts and copy and paste, especially for varukorgboll, which is a post that continues to elude me.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Ah, that original Vinlandic Flag.

I work with what I've got. Eventually, assuming you don't do it, going to have to go through and look for all of your great posts and copy and paste, especially for varukorgboll, which is a post that continues to elude me.

I worked hard on that flag. It took two whole minutes to make.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I think you might be happy to find that I keep a very detailed post linking everything relevant that I've ever posted about Vinland. If you're ever trying to find it, just search 'Giant Vinlandic Reference Post' and you'll see it.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Yep, that'll do.

 

[Terrance888]

"We Didn't Start the Fire: CI" version.

This must be a thing. Nao.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

A quick update how things are proceeding:

First, I want to thank everyone who has contributed to the wiki so far. Everything one of you does is one less thing I have to do.

Second, at the time it seems my limit of articles is 4-6 a day, mostly thanks to RL stuff and busy weekends. This weekend though my schedule is clear of everything else, and I'll be dedicating it completely to getting the next phase of the NES up and running. Work will be done throughout the week of course, but I would like to remind you all, that the more you help, the sooner this will be up and we can carry on with business.

 

[Grandkhan]

"We Didn't Start the Fire: CI" version.

This must be a thing. Nao.

Don't say I didn't try.

To the tune of:


Link to video.

Naples, Brandenburg, Reusachtig, Great War,
Revolution, devolution, Constantinople,

Betray Denmark, Italy, 'rabians, Irish Sea,
Continental, sentimental, Treaty of Madrid,

British canal, tyranny, Russian Poland, Italy,
Egypt, Pontus gore, and the Roman Civil War,

Aeroplanes, Brazil please, Scandinavian Regime,
Proletarists, Nationalists, Turkey says goodbye!

We didn't start the fire,
its been always burning
since the worlds been turning,
We didn't start the fire,
No we didn't light it
but we tried to fight it!

Mannerheim, Germany, Caribbean Tyranny,
Pheonixists, terrorists, America falls,

Federals, Florida, militarists, 'pallachia,
Negro war, civil war, Rosario

Japan's rise, Kongo, Flemish Union, Tango,
Indians, Liberals, Phillip X,

Russian fears, Cuba, Spain falls into civil war,
Confederates, degenerates, Spanish Republic!

We didn't start the fire,
its been always burning
since the worlds been turning,
We didn't start the fire,
No we didn't light it
but we tried to fight it!

Einar Boye, Jamaica, Arab War, Zell Massacre,
Savoy Front, Dutch Front, Indonesia.

Brazil's fleet, NAP, Copenhagen, Java Sea,
Holland Falls, France Falls, Treaty of Paris

Poitou, Burgundy, Catalans, Normandy,
Ceylon, Angolans, the Rhineland,

Kingston, Fat Walda, Egyptians, Sardinia,
Drekler, Carrier, decolonisation!

We didn't start the fire,
its been always burning
since the worlds been turning,
We didn't start the fire,
No we didn't light it
but we tried to fight it!

Fireworks, Urbina, Civil War in India
Chinese, Japanese, Chinese Red Army,

Russian Hands, Moralists, Pius Ix, Hollandists,
Occitanians, Poor Italians, Benin War

French Invasion, Radio, Grenoble, Guangxi says "lets go,",
Russian jets, british jets, I think its time to say no!

We didn't start the fire,
its been always burning
since the worlds been turning,
We didn't start the fire,
No we didn't light it
but we tried to fight it!

Guangxi crisis, koreans, uruguay, Romans,
Paris War, civil war, land-cruisers,

helicopter, humanism, rocket tech, television
Reclamation, proclamation, Jacksonia at war

russian allies, war vets, negroes, economic crisis,
embargoes, brazil's growth, Denmark is behind,

end of the China War, America's under martial law,
Yoopra ends, Jacks' bend, I can't take it any more!


We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
But when we are gone
It will still burn on and on and on and on
And on and on and on and on...

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No, we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No, we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it!

 

[Terrance888]

Bravo!

EDIT now we need a VA!

 

[J.K. Stockholme]

@EQ: what is the state of Jazz and music in general? (about this time OTL Jazz was being banned as degenerate in some places, and taking on a rebellious image as well as one of liberation for some people, including African Americans)

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I believe he said that blues as we know it never arose in this timeline, which means that we basically have to design wholly new genres of music. Popular music in Vinland, for example, remains dominated by traditional string music, with the dulcimer, fiddle, and key harp playing significant roles. Accordions, concertinas and harmonicas also feature fairly significantly. Immigration from central and eastern Europe has brought us the polka and mazurka, while the underground railroad has brought us a small infusion of African-American music.

Of course, all of this mixes together in interesting ways, leading to the formation of new, hybrid genres. I should write a bit about this, as I feel it's a bit of culture that really doesn't get talked about very much, as it can be difficult to describe with words alone.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Well, my only contribution to this so far has been the evolution of tango due to the proliferation of Argentine culture via cinema. I've seen it as filling the role of jazz, particularly for the more religious states, pretty sure I had Uruguay ban it under President Lonzo. As for jazz, I suppose something like it in theory could exist in the USA, but the events there make speculation a bit more difficult. The "Negro Spiritual" is alive and well, and I've always viewed that as a precursor to modern blue and jazz, and thanks to contributions from TheMeanestGuest and <nuke>, we have a country/western genre out there too. I suppose in summary, a variation of jazz could exist, but I don't think it'd really make it beyond niche markets outside of North America.

Alternatively, I'd say a variation that could emerge would be a mixture of tango influences with the spirituals and blues. No idea what that would create, but it seems plausible culturally, due to the dominance of Argentine films on the marketplace in the Americas. This almost definitely would not create jazz as we know it, but could be something similar in the role it plays in American society.

 

[J.K. Stockholme]

My thoughts on the topic are that swing and big band music (though undoubtedly very altered swing and big band) in particular should be rather popular and prominent in Europe, given that their preconditions are present there, regardless of whether it was made in the US in TTL or not. Frustration with the great powers and their unceasing conflicts, as well as their mounting tensions with each other, along with the same governments' mounting tension with their own people (especially with TTL's heightened proletarist paranoia), would have generated an immense desire in Europe for some kind of simple subversive form of musical expression.

Much like jazz was seen initially as too American, and didn't catch on in Europe until the 30s, tango would likely be receiving a similar animosity as "too South American" (though by 1940 arguably such an animosity is lessening substantially). However at the same time, because of a lack of serious cultural growth in music in the US, some kind of jazz (I posit swing and big band) would start being played in Europe (even if it was from UPRA expatriates or something residing in major European cities). The reason I say swing and big band in particular is, for swing, the same reasons in OTL - the new consumer era, with a change in social attitudes, loosening of control over the post-Great War generation, etc, but taken on by European youth to escape all of the problems of Hungary/Scandinavia/post-Great War shifts and the lack of general European peace. Big band would then follow swing music in Europe, as a more respectable, more European form of the new style, which worked closer with a growing radio industry, but that still had the same subversive appeal.