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Catherine of Russia - Who wants to Play?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Harv, Apr 29, 2020.

  1. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Instead of building a bunch of courthouses in the middle of a two-fronted war, we will be building the Parthenon, Great Library, and National Epic. ;)
     
  2. 5tephen

    5tephen Chieftain

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    Don't forget to build Hermitage after you've beaten Ragnar and Julius - can never have enough culture in isolation...
     
  3. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    I just looked at my map again. My workers were right there, but I forgot to build the road to Antium!
    Well, we got the plantation up in a single turn, so I guess they are moving back up there.

    The Vikings? I think between our land and their land, there is a whole bunch of nothing. There is one iron mine they can plunder. We have two more.
    I have an emergency fund to promote a warrior if we need to.
    It's the flood plains I am most concerned about. I don't think the AI is smart enough to go after that.

    As for tech path, we are either going for Music or we are not.
     
  4. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Not sure I have built the hermitage in years.
    Yeah you kind of wanted some workers to speed up that attack.Your still a bit light worker wise.

    Worth keeping a couple of units on your border. You can beg each 20+ turns. It's not an exact science.

    Well what is your plan here after war? You do have marble. At some point a golden age would be useful but not till warfare here is done.

    Great artist always good for a golden age.

    Don't get too involved with JC. Take the best cities. Then decide if the wasteland is worth it.
     
  5. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    The Fall of Rome
    to Turn 120

    Onward! We pushed further into Rome, pillaging a hamlet for 21gp and destroying the road there. The main weapon the Romans have right now is the Chariot, and whatever spears, axes, and praetorians they have left. We also pushed through the forest to block the road there. We did not want a surprise attack on our wounded in Antiumgrad. We formed another stack to march towards Ravenna.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_11-41-34.png

    upload_2020-5-10_11-42-8.png



    We saw no reason to keep the city, so we burned it to the ground. We had to attack it, because it was a staging ground for a counterattack on Antiumgrad. We destroyed it, because it was one less city to defend.

    Meanwhile, we build the Temple of Solomon.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_11-44-9.png


    We marched onward to Rome. We only had a few Catapults, so we chose the slow, cautious route of smashing down the walls, then attacking.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_11-45-4.png


    Guau! They whipped the city all the way down to 1! Aren't we glad they had no metal? Why didn't they build any Catapults? It still looks intimidating, but we took it down bit by bit. We started with the big bad Praetorian. This time, it took two of our CR2 Swords to take it down. Then we went after a couple of the Archers. Finally, we let a couple catapults into the action, losing one. Caesar got a general in Cumae. By then, the damage was done, and the rest of the battles were very easy. Rome fell.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_11-48-35.png


    Apparently, we also captured Stonehenge! As was mentioned before, we cannot have enough culture when we are in isolation!

    I was going to ask which city would be better for great people, Rome or Moscow. This makes me lean towards Moscow, because I don't believe we want more Great Prophets in our best Great Person pool. That being the case, we still have lots of forest and can chop of the Parthenon in Rome if we want. The Mausoleum might be first.

    We are still fighting a war!

    I think we have five catapults left in that stack, so we might be in shape to press northwards to meet that General in Cumae. Maybe he will be a super city defender, with CG3 and Drill 5. All those swords get pincushioned before they reach any walls.

    After that, there is a city in the corner to destroy. Then the Romans will have a few remnants left.
    We might have let them live if they researched something useful to us, instead of Construction, which we already have.

    Here is the situation in the northwest.
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_11-59-11.png


    Here is what the Vikings look like:
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_12-0-29.png


    I don't see any metal in that stack, which is surprising. I thought the Vikings would be building a bunch of axes and swords. I finally see a sword. That makes busting the stack a little more complicated. We have a strength ratio of 1.5. Maybe that holds them back while we are busy on the opposite side of the continent.
     

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  6. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    World of difference between yours and 5tephen's save. His number of catapults is over double yours and he has whipped much heavier. I count 15+ catapults in his stack. Slight overkill maybe but get's the job done.

    Your short on workers and you have a lot of forest still left. You said yourself there were worker improvements not done before the war.

    This was never going to be a battle you would lose. I suspect 5tephen may have bribed Viking against Romans.

    I rarely fully bombard these days unless I have a huge stack of units. Sometimes attacking with 4-5 pults and mopping up with melee is much more efficient than sitting outside a city for 4-5 turns while the Ai whip it away. On the Earth18 map as English I took the one for one approach on toughest defenders. HA often had odds of 20-30%+ odds. It was same for Spanish capital. I would of been there 5 turns bombarding.Once odds are above 20-30% it's often worth attacking if you have the numbers. Of course if you go with limited numbers you can't do this. With CR2-3 units it makes a difference..
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  7. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Any ideas what I should do with our next Great General, February?
     
  8. nebux

    nebux Chieftain

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    with the new general make a proper and useful chariot medic. or add more exp to your existing one for 2 move
     
    5tephen likes this.
  9. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    to Turn 129

    Looking around, we found a free worker.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_18-21-42.png

    A few turns later, that silly little city was able to produce a Chariot.
    upload_2020-5-10_18-22-41.png


    We will get back to Arretium later. We marched towards Cumae. Just as we crossed back into Roman territory, they launched a counterattack.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_18-23-53.png


    Their last Praetorian made our axe look like short work. It looks like I did not put on any promotion. Perhaps I thought the Romans were going to hide in their walled city. They did not. It makes our work a little easier. Another axe beat the Praetorian. Then we had some Chariots to wipe out. Then we finished our march on Cumae.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_18-27-11.png

    upload_2020-5-10_18-27-20.png


    We actually lost that CR3 Swordsman at 85%. It does not matter much. We were still winning the city.

    Finally, we returned to Arretrium and burned it to the ground.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_18-28-24.png


    Now it is just the southern front that remains. There are three Roman cities remaining.

    We won the race to Music and have a Great Artist to show for it. So far, I have Code of Laws next, because courthouses might come in handy.

    The flood plains are fully developed. We now have 8 towns!

    The Vikings appear to like us. Maybe they plot against us. Maybe they do not.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    I see you are building/built temples and markets everywhere. I can see the temples are keeping some cities happy. Not sure about markets in every city. Especially built when you were trying to fight a war. No need for court houses here as city costs quite low.
     
  11. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    to Turn 141

    Did I lie when I say I was not planning to build the Parthenon, Great Library, Mausoleum, and National Epic during a war?
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_23-35-0.png

    upload_2020-5-10_23-35-16.png

    upload_2020-5-10_23-35-33.png

    upload_2020-5-10_23-35-48.png

    upload_2020-5-10_23-35-59.png

    upload_2020-5-10_23-36-11.png



    Now, we should see where the Vikings are.

    Here is the body count.
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-5-10_23-36-57.png


    I count 680 hammers in that mess, or 113 per city gained. It probably was not very efficient, because I thought there was a point where I could stop building units and JC turned on the chariot machine. More units would mean a faster finish.

    I take it Stephen, with all those units built, sent the second wave south, and finished at around the same time as the first wave. Over here, we spent quite a few turns moving units from one front to the other.

    Next up is the economy. How to fix it.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. 5tephen

    5tephen Chieftain

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    I didn't bribe Ragnar on Julius. Probably should have, would be good to get him to friendly for trades in semi-iso.

    Well done on conquest of JC.

    I went a bit mad on the catapults but the worst thing is when the war gets really slow because of too few units and then they reinforce and war weariness increases in a vicious cycle...

    My war lasted 17 turns to your 34. I find shorter wars better for happiness, tech and city development.

    I was a really avid builder. Not sure you needed all of these wonders. I've found the less stuff I build the better my tech progress and if you can get ahead of the AI victory is easier.
     
  13. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    More units probably would have been more efficient. More opponent turns. More opponent whips. More opponent units killed. More war discontent, times more turns.

    I can look at the number of units killed and verify. On the other side, not so much whip anger.

    I think at this point, we have reduced the game to Noble level and have options on how to win. One way would be to stab Ragnar when he doesn’t see it coming. I still hate attacking opponents who are pleased. It’s really not personal, but this is our continent.

    An alternative might be to chase the religious nut victory. A pleased or friendly Ragnar might vote for us. I don’t recall seeing Christianity founded. We build a bunch of temples, so the payoff will be fast.

    What do we do with all these units? Do we find cities for them to bump the happy cap, in places like St. Pete?

    The trifecta of wonders we built, we will see how that investment pays.
     
  14. dankok8

    dankok8 Elected World Leader

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    In my game Ragnar started teching quite quickly. He got Engineering around 500 AD and started training Pikes which spelled doom for my mostly mounted army. He seems quite a bit weaker in your game even with the same cities but maybe JC is stronger. Looking back at it I could have played a much more efficient game if I didn't rush Caesar and built up instead (got Oracle for Monarchy or Pyramids) and then took him out like you did with Catapults. I mean either way got us in a definite winning position but early on I couldn't afford to keep all of Caesar's cities and he was spamming Settlers like crazy and the war dragged on for too long. I think I captured something like 8 of his cities, burned 2 of them, and killed 3 Settlers. I can't take out Ragnar yet and he is close to Berserkers as well so I'll probably go with Cuirassiers. With your approach one can quickly conquer the continent prior to the painful Medieval Era. Like @5tephen said, quick wars are key. Low happiness cap plus whipping plus WW also causes some serious economic issues for me. That bozo Ragnar being at +10 but refusing to trade any luxury resources was annoying.

    Anyways go hurry and crush Ragnar before he gets stronger units. Your economy is fine, in fact in better shape then where I was in my 760 AD save.
     
  15. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Temples don't help religious victory. You would need to spread to all ai. Then get them all to pleased/friendly. Also ensure your diplo vote is below 75% before Ai vote for you. AP is a big investment. Albeit you can use forge and other religious civics to speed it up.

    I agree your in a strong position here.
     
  16. 5tephen

    5tephen Chieftain

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    Where are you going with tech? I'm not sure if it's wrong to do so but I've not self-teched feudalism in years.

    Unless you're going all out to get Ragnar to friendly for tech trading, isn't astronomy the key tech you need to beeline? Ragnar as a vassal doesn't make sense for me as you can easily crush him, I don't think he'll add anything useful and you'll suffer diplo hits and motherland anger? Even if you are going peace with Ragnar intercontinental trade routes are lucrative and galleons will be needed for war.

    I've never tried for AP victory but I suppose leaving Ragnar alive and friendly could work for this so you don't supply over 75% of vote?

    Which victory condition are you aiming for?
     
  17. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    You are right about Feudalism. It is better traded for. I was thinking discount on CS. It also means we are missing some tech down the chain, guilds and banking, but we can trade later.

    When I woke up this morning, I was thinking religious victory - if we can get the AP. I probably lost a bunch of turns already researching metal casting. It remains to be seen if this destroys our chances.

    On the return on investment and temples we have already built, I was thinking of the two hammers per AP religious building.

    If we get the great prophet in Moscow (due to bad micro) then we should be able to bulb theology and get started.

    So after this diversion, start working towards optics and find that barrel of monkeys other continent?
     
  18. dankok8

    dankok8 Elected World Leader

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    Religious victory is so cheesy IMO. Get domination. Crack some skulls to victory!
     
  19. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Harv is not good at building fleets and conquering AI across the sea. I agree religious is cheesy but sometimes a quick way to end a game. I am looking to do this on my earth map game with English. Last 1-2 Ai to cap on my land. 3 Ai across the pond. Circa 1100ad or so. I think I had about 40-50 cuirs before I hit China. Earth script is a tad too easy.
     
  20. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Religious is very cheesy when the AI does it! All they need is one AI to vote for them. I think they let me win the Perikles game.

    I have seen it done. I just have to get it executed one of these times. Add to that invading with equal tech.
     

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