Cave man icks

[Harbringer]

Well, this has been on my mind for a long time, and I guess this is a good place to get some opinions. But a long time ago, my father and I got into an argument over the gay rites thing(he is a hardcore fanataical christian, hes a freekin youth pasture for petes sake), and in the midst of all that he said that from his beleifs the end result of two people getting married is simply to have sex and reproduce and all that, and thats what love always boils down to. He gets really pissed really easy especially whe he wrong and doesnt want to admit, and since I enjoy the use of my teeth and jaq bone I just backed down then. But anyway, I thogh three things at the time,
1. By his definatition, there is no point for infertile people to love then
2. That small children who have no knowledge of sex have no preference
3. Thats so freekin cave man, I just want to love someone, I dont want most of the girls I like for sex

theres was some problems in my head, but for the most part I just got that image of a caveman bashing a girl over the head and dragging here into a cave and that just kept repeating, his perespective just seemed so cave man and primitive for me, I mean, I dont think Ive ever thought about having sex with a girl Ive been in love with?

thoughts, opinions, irrelevant questions to ask that have no bearing?

 

[Nylan]

There is a difference between love and lust. Sorting out the two can take a lifetime, or it may take a single woman. The choice is ours.



That's where all the confusion is coming from

 

[Stylesrj]

Tell your father that this is the modern times and people can marry whatever they want. Tell him that even atheists can get married, so marriage is no longer a religious thing and therefore meaning there is nothing wrong with gays being married.

Now, why is your father such a brick wall? Better yet, just ignore him and his arguments and let him work things out on his own. You're better than him.
EDIT: Is giving out advice a good idea?

Reminds me talking to my careers teacher about the war in Iraq. He said that the war isn't a waste because "We're building things!" oh so because you've got a TAFE college being built in Afghanistan, means that those poor troops dying are for a good cause? He was such a brick wall and I forgot some material, which my brother explained to me later... the next day...

You just can't argue with a religious person....

 

[Harbringer]

My dads pretty one sided in everything, and I mean on everything, if he thinks it, it is, there arent different opinions, his is rite and everyone else can go sucka fuish, but I guess Ive just gotten used to it after a while, that and I just just learned to not give a flying **** so much when we disagree.

 

[Stylesrj]

Perhaps you could take his bible, hide it somewhere, get a bible dust jacket, place it over an atheist book or something and perhaps that'll do something....
Then again, if he tries shoving his agenda of religion down your throat, just ignore it. Say grace? No, start shoveling. Go to church? No, sleep in

So yeah, why can't we get along? Is there any rational, non-religious explanation to why gays can't get married? Tell him that. He'll probably go religious on you, but keep asking for a non-religious answer

 

[ShannonCT]

1. By his definatition, there is no point for infertile people to love then

Evolutionary biologists would agree with your dad - love is just our name for our feelings of attraction for people, feelings that evolved and thrived because they helped the human species thrive. For people who are infertile, the evolutionary purpose of love is gone, even though the feelings are still there.

2. That small children who have no knowledge of sex have no preference.

Small children don't love people in a sexual way. What do you mean by "preference"?

3. Thats so freekin cave man, I just want to love someone, I dont want most of the girls I like for sex

So I guess you are what? 12? 13? I don't completely agree with your dad but he seems to at least have fully formed opinions on love, marriage, and sex. I'm sure you will still have differences of opinion with him when you become an adult, but you don't sound like you know much about love yet.

 

[Harbringer]

Im actually 19 and a freshman in a jc, we can argue all day about the merits of what it is, but if just seems so primitive that the whole feeling and procedure is just leading up to banging some chick, I just dont thinkg that that should be the WHOLE reason for it, he thinks its the only reason for love period. If it as simply a means to drive someone to the point of having sex with another, than what of us people who just want to love someone?


As for preference, I was reffering to whether you are attracted to guys or girls, and since children for the most part have no idea what sex is.........

 

[ShannonCT]

Im actually 19 and a freshman in a jc, we can argue all day about the merits of what it is, but if just seems so primitive that the whole feeling and procedure is just leading up to banging some chick, I just dont thinkg that that should be the WHOLE reason for it, he thinks its the only reason for love period. If it as simply a means to drive someone to the point of having sex with another, than what of us people who just want to love someone?

As for preference, I was reffering to whether you are attracted to guys or girls, and since children for the most part have no idea what sex is.........

Again, biologists would say that your feeling of just wanting to love someone is your mind/body's way of trying to get you to have sex with someone, for the purpose of passing on your genes. You are the product of a long line of people who have had these same feelings and have been driven to procreate. If they hadn't been, you wouldn't exist.

If this is about you trying to justify gay people's feelings of love toward each other, then you can explain it this way: gay people have the same genes that make straight people desire love and sex. They just have some difference in their brain (caused by a genetic mutation or a in utero hormonal event) that causes them to seek that love with someone who they can't procreate with. Their feelings of love are no less compelling than straight people's feelings, but their feelings are not going to achieve their evolutionary purpose.

 

[El_Machinae]

Evolutionary biologists would agree with your dad - love is just our name for our feelings of attraction for people, feelings that evolved and thrived because they helped the human species thrive. For people who are infertile, the evolutionary purpose of love is gone, even though the feelings are still there.

Actually, "gay men make great uncles". If a homosexual gets a life partner and then is active in the raising of their neices and nephews, then their family lines are well boosted by their love for their family and each other. It would turn two families into allies, allowing teamwork which gives competitive success. Love not only allows reproduction, but teamwork. Both are competitive strategies.

Re the father's attitude: you can't really change it. All you can do is acknowledge that we live in a society that allows people to be sinners and still have freedoms. You're not going to save anyone's soul by keeping remarriage illegal!

 

[Elrohir]

Im actually 19 and a freshman in a jc, we can argue all day about the merits of what it is, but if just seems so primitive that the whole feeling and procedure is just leading up to banging some chick, I just dont thinkg that that should be the WHOLE reason for it, he thinks its the only reason for love period. If it as simply a means to drive someone to the point of having sex with another, than what of us people who just want to love someone?


As for preference, I was reffering to whether you are attracted to guys or girls, and since children for the most part have no idea what sex is.........

Procreation isn't the whole reason for love in a general sense, but it is the original purpose of romantic love, which is what I think you two are talking about. People never like to hear that what they are feeling is biological, though - they'd rather declare "No, it's different! This is so magical! So spiritual! Blah blah blah!" Umm....yeah. I won't deny that there can be more to a romantic relationship than a purely biological desire to reproduce, but like it or not that desire is the original basis of romantic feelings.

I disagree on your second point. (That children have no preference) I can remember enjoying talking about "girlfriends" at a very young age, long before I actually knew what sex was, or how the act actually happened. The instinct is there, even if the knowledge is not.