Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Hydromancerx]

@charlesb96

11. Like DH said I disagree.

13. I like the idea of more Judge names.

 

[charlesb96]

I forgot Judge Force Crater, the Jimmy Hoffa case of the 1930's.

 

[Snofru1]

Do you mean you want a movie for cultures? That would be nice.

It could be a movie but a picture would be fine for me. I don´t want to increase the download times for this mod more than necessary.

 

[Arakhor]

Why are Scientology and Mormonism listed as religions in this mod? They're both very US-centric, Mormonism is simply a very variant version of Christianity and Scientology is regarded as merely a cult in many countries outside the US.

 

[strategyonly]

Why are Scientology and Mormonism listed as religions in this mod? They're both very US-centric, Mormonism is simply a very variant version of Christianity and Scientology is regarded as merely a cult in many countries outside the US.

Sci:

Scientology is legally recognized as a tax-exempt religion in the United States, Italy, South Africa, Australia, Sweden, New Zealand, Portugal and Spain; the Church of Scientology emphasizes this as proof that it is a bona fide religion.

Mor:

Mormon theology claims to situate Mormonism within the context of Judaism to an extent that goes beyond what most other Christian denominations claim.

 

[Dissonance]

4. Great Generals have movement 4 and ignore terrain costs
This allows them to keep up with cavalry and other more mobile units.

Personally, I like the movement restriction. It forces more organized movement, making a player choose between fast action or strong action. A minor boost to 3 would be reasonable, though.

6. Shaft Mine yield is 0/5/1
Modern Mine yield is 0/6/1
If not then Shaft and Modern mine yield is less than regular mine after you add in the extra bonuses regular mine gets thru tech advances, (I think)

I'm fairly certain that those benefit from the same boosts as regular mines.

7. Thatch and Peat cutter yield of 0/2/2 for Modern road, Railroad, Electric Rail, Gravtube, and jumplane.
If not then extra yield for these drops when you build the upgraded routes over the regular road

I think that makes sense, as thatch/peat cutters are not particular important in ages where you have railroad or even magtubes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thatching#History

In most of Europe, thatch remained the only roofing material available to the bulk of the population in the countryside, in many towns and villages, until the late 1800s.[5] The commercial production of Welsh slate had begun in 1820 and the mobility which the canals and then the railways made possible meant that other materials became readily available. Still, the number of thatched properties actually increased in the UK during the mid-1800s as agriculture expanded, but then declined again at the end of the 19th century because of agricultural recession and rural depopulation. Gradually, thatch became a mark of poverty and the number of thatched properties gradually declined, as did the number of professional thatchers. Thatch has become much more popular in the UK over the past 30 years, and is now a symbol of wealth rather than poverty. There are approximately 1,000 full-time thatchers at work in the UK,[6] and thatching is becoming popular again because of the renewed interest in preserving historic buildings and using more sustainable building materials.

Hmm, so maybe Railroads should provide a benefit, but have that be removed with better roads.

Peat, however, is much more important. I don't know whether it has relevant benefits in industrial+ ages, but it should.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat

11.Moving Tech, I feel chariots should come before animal riding.

Spoiler :

The Wheel (replace Horseback Riding)
iCost/ 60
ERA/ prehistoric
X/ 17
Y/ 15
OrPreReq/ Equine domestication
AndPreReq/ Boat Building

Chariotry (replace tengrii)
Cost/ 70
ERA/ Prehistoric
X/ 18
Y/ 15
OrPreReq/ The Wheel
AndPreReq/ None

Animal Riding (Horseback Riding) (replace Chariotry)
Cost/ 105
ERA/ Ancient
X/ 24
Y/ 13
OrPreReq/ Copper Working
AndPreReq/ Chariotry
Camel Riding
Elephant Riding

Mining
OrPreReq/ the Wheel
AndPreReq/ Pottery

Megafauna domestication
cost/ 110
ERA/ Ancient
X/ 25
Y/ 13
Or/ Horseback
And/ Equine, Elephant/ Camel

Tengrii
Cost/ 110
ERA/ Ancient
X/ 26
Y/ 7

Historically incorrect.

Though there is controversy over the exact date horses were domesticated and when they were first ridden; the best estimate is that horses first were ridden approximately 4500 BC. Indirect evidence suggests that horses were ridden long before they were driven. There is some evidence that about 6,000 years ago, near the Dneiper River and the Don River, people were using bits on horses, as a stallion that was buried there shows teeth wear consistent with using a bit. However, the most unequivocal early archaeological evidence of equines put to working use was of horses being driven. Chariot burials about 2500 BC present the most direct hard evidence of horses used as working animals. In ancient times chariot warfare was followed by the use of war horses as light and heavy cavalry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equestrianism#History_of_horse_use

Also,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_horse

12. Riding School, Give free promotion on move
After all it IS a school, it should be able to train old units too.

While I'd like that, I disagree. Currently, it seems that buildings provide equipment (bamboo armor, poison tips) for free but not training. Training is technically the same as bonus XP from other sources. You could give somebody a better horse, but not retrain them from scratch.

 

[Arakhor]

Scientology is also denied tax-exempt status in several other countries and barred outright in Germany. You can check here to see that such recognition is easily in the minority. Really though, are you going to take the church's opinion as proof that they are a recognised religion? You can find creationists numbering in the millions, but that does not prove the veracity of Genesis in any way.

Christianity and Judaism are both in the game, so if that's the only reason for including Mormonism as a separate religion, that's not a very good excuse. I belong to a non-Trinitarian branch of Protestant Christianity, but I wouldn't want to see Arianism or something similar included.

Besides, neither of your points excuse the heavy US bias of both 'religions' or, for that matter, that both are very modern.

 

[Dissonance]

While surfing wiki, I came across this interesting entity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_gourd

May I suggest this as a common in-game resource that would provide early Pottery benefits? This could also act as bottles, similar to the Glass Bottle requirement for milking.

The calabash was one of the first cultivated plants in the world, grown not primarily for food, but for use as a water container. The bottle gourd may have been carried from Africa to Asia, Europe and the Americas in the course of human migration. It shares its common name with that of the calabash tree (Crescentia cujete).

Also from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication#Plants

By 10,000 BC the bottle gourd (Lagenaria siceraria) plant, used as a container before the advent of ceramic technology, appears to have been domesticated. The domesticated bottle gourd reached the Americas from Asia by 8000 BC, most likely due to the migration of peoples from Asia to America.

This could potentially be under Plant Domestication, a novel tech, that would also include the various prehistoric plant harvesting facilities.

 

[DRJ]

I liked to suggest that forts cost money per turn. I have got two dozen of them, claiming huge territories and "the fort disbanded if you don't pay lump sum" event hasn't been triggered once... I'd say 5 gold per turn each fort with your culture and 10 in medieval 20 in renaissance and 50 in industrial, modern 200...

Or we make it so that the cost of forts is related to the numbers you have in your territory like first fort costs 1/turn, two forts cost combined 3 per turn, three forts cost combined 6 per turn etc. So the more forts you have the more expansive it gets, regardless of the era you're in.

Third variant would be to take the number of forts (the more you have the more expansive the next one gets) and relate it also to population. So if you have a huge population you can have a cheaper price for mroe forts.

This shall rpevent that population wise small civs claim too huge territories without really having to pay for it.

Any ideas about this?

Scientology is also denied tax-exempt status in several other countries and barred outright in Germany.

It has no tax-exempt status here but barred? If you mean it's not allowed here, people are allowed to believe this crazy stuff like any other religion and if I recall we have some other real crazy religious organizations here too like mormons, jehovas witnesses and smaller guru led groups.
As we are in bureaucratic heaven , Germany , they are being watched by a "sect commissioner", though.

I am a Pastafari by the way!

 

[Hydromancerx]

While surfing wiki, I came across this interesting entity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_gourd

May I suggest this as a common in-game resource that would provide early Pottery benefits? This could also act as bottles, similar to the Glass Bottle requirement for milking.

Also from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication#Plants


This could potentially be under Plant Domestication, a novel tech, that would also include the various prehistoric plant harvesting facilities.

Well we have no graphics for bottle gourds as a map resource but I will defiantly add it to the list of crops buildings. Probably will have the requirements of Squash + Melons resources in the city vicinity. Sicne that combo has not been taken yet. I have a few more other crops I still want to make too.

 

[Dissonance]

Well we have no graphics for bottle gourds but I will defiantly add it to the list of crops buildings. I have a few more other crops I still want to make.

I'd try my hand at the graphics, but 3d MAX is out of my price range :-/ If anyone ever wants to, I think you could modify the existing watermelon resource. Remove red, squish the circle in the middle, and done.

EDIT: I saw your addition, that sounds like a reasonable combo. I have had a few cities with those two, and this would add some value to those resources.

 

[Arakhor]

It has no tax-exempt status here but barred? If you mean it's not allowed here, people are allowed to believe this crazy stuff like any other religion and if I recall we have some other real crazy religious organizations here too like mormons, jehovas witnesses and smaller guru led groups.

I didn't mean to suggest that it was actually illegal to be a member, but like in the UK and other places, it's certainly not recognised as a bona fide religion, regardless of what one of the more litigious and objectionable cults in today's world has to say about themselves.

I don't know if there are any Mormons who play C2C or R2R, but the mods do seem to be taking the line that Mormonism is not a Christian faith, despite the fact that (according to Wikipedia) LDS theology includes the Christian doctrine of salvation only through Jesus Christ and uses the Bible as one of their key texts. (That's also a complete aside to my first point that it's a predominantly American and very modern branch of religious thought.)

Well we have no graphics for bottle gourds as a map resource but I will defiantly add it to the list of crops buildings. Probably will have the requirements of Squash + Melons resources in the city vicinity. Sicne that combo has not been taken yet. I have a few more other crops I still want to make too.

At what point are you going to call time on feature addition? R2R is already 2.3 Gb in size and that cuts out the entire Galactic Era. I counted all the prehistoric techs and I believe it came to 87 in total, with 'only' 500 techs in total in the game. I love the Stone Age concept, don't get me wrong, but isn't that somewhat excessive?

 

[Dissonance]

I didn't mean to suggest that it was actually illegal to be a member, but like in the UK and other places, it's certainly not recognised as a bona fide religion, regardless of what one of the more litigious and objectionable cults in today's world has to say about themselves.

I don't know if there are any Mormons who play C2C or R2R, but the mods do seem to be taking the line that Mormonism is not a Christian faith, despite the fact that (according to Wikipedia) LDS theology includes the Christian doctrine of salvation only through Jesus Christ and uses the Bible as one of their key texts. (That's also a complete aside to my first point that it's a predominantly American and very modern branch of religious thought.)

--

At what point are you going to call time on feature addition? R2R is already 2.3 Gb in size and that cuts out the entire Galactic Era. I counted all the prehistoric techs and I believe it came to 87 in total, with 'only' 500 techs in total in the game. I love the Stone Age concept, don't get me wrong, but isn't that somewhat excessive?

I'm obviously not Hydro, but here are my pennies.
Mormonism to me simply fills in a modern religion concept. I'm not aware of many major religions that have their roots in modern times, and I'm happy to have Mormonism and Scientology fill those slots. The actual size of the religion is, to me, irrelevant as the fictional setting of the game can easily create a 21st century Caanite empire.

In terms of the size, it personally has never bothered me. I do have a really good internet connection, but I'm willing to download a very large mod because it's essentially a new game. In the past, I would simply set such downloads overnight and go to sleep. When I used to have an unstable connection, I would use a download manager to mitigate it.

EDIT: Further reading on religions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

 

[awesome]

Why are Scientology and Mormonism listed as religions in this mod? They're both very US-centric, Mormonism is simply a very variant version of Christianity and Scientology is regarded as merely a cult in many countries outside the US.

"...outside the US."
It's seen as a cult INSIDE the US. People make fun of it all the time. Probably even more than people make fun of Mormonism.

 

[strategyonly]

I didn't mean to suggest that it was actually illegal to be a member, but like in the UK and other places, it's certainly not recognized as a bona fide religion, regardless of what one of the more litigious and objectionable cults in today's world has to say about themselves.

I'm happy to have Mormonism and Scientology fill those slots. The actual size of the religion is, to me, irrelevant as the fictional setting of the game can easily create a 21st century Canaanite empire.

PLS no more religion stuff in this thread thx, C2C has a religion thread just for stuff like this, thx.

 

[God-Emperor]

At what point are you going to call time on feature addition? R2R is already 2.3 Gb in size and that cuts out the entire Galactic Era. I counted all the prehistoric techs and I believe it came to 87 in total, with 'only' 500 techs in total in the game. I love the Stone Age concept, don't get me wrong, but isn't that somewhat excessive?

That would be 86 prehistoric techs in R2R, actually. The breakdown is this:
86 prehistroic
43 ancient
46 classicial
37 medieval
58 renaisance
79 industrial
69 modern
80 transhuman
2 future (future tech, or course, and "special promotion")

The 80 transhuman has always seemed to be a few too many, even though I already removed a lot of them. The amount of new stuff in this era is spread somewhat thinly across the techs in R2R.

Anyhow, C2C is already much larger than R2R in number of buildings. It gets more so with every version. It has a few more units too, although the difference is smaller. The next version of R2R is getting one such unit (the kayak), but it probably won't get any new buildings.

On the other hand, C2C has autobuilt buildings and R2R doesn't (the functionality is in there but it isn't used), which is probably the main reason why the prehistoric era actually seems to go by a bit quicker (in terms of turns; not sure about real world time) in C2C. Once you get shelter building in C2C it automatically builds things which increase your production, which you have to spend turns to build in R2R so in C2C you can use the "free turns" to either build more buildings sooner or build more hunters or a bit of both. The various additional buildings in C2C also ultimately speed things up, and the stone tools workshop building ultimately gets 1 more research (last time I checked) than in R2R. You can also possibly get a little more food from the extra buildings in C2C as well, allowing slightly faster city growth. The actual cost of the techs is probably not quite the same anymore either. So it goes a little quicker even though there are a few more prehistoric techs in C2C to get through.

Eventually C2C will have to stop adding buildings and other stuff simply due to the 4GB memory limitation. Especially Earth based stuff if the other maps are really going to be added since it needs memory space for all the offworld stuff to use. The vast majority of the things being added is still in the first 3 eras. C2C might run out of memory space for new stuff before anybody gets around to fleshing out the later eras and adding the additional maps.

 

[Arakhor]

So why are the Ancient, Classical and Mediaeval eras so much smaller than the others? Shouldn't each era be equally as important?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Why are Scientology and Mormonism listed as religions in this mod? They're both very US-centric, Mormonism is simply a very variant version of Christianity and Scientology is regarded as merely a cult in many countries outside the US.

Scientology is in because the original modder (AAranda) of the religions put it in. Mormon is in because a Mormon who plays the game did a lot of the work with me to get it in.

 

[W|M]

I think Civ III-style colonies are a good idea. (Civ III-style colonies are where a worker can build a road to a resource outside of your borders, then build an improvement to acquire it. Making the improvement destroys the worker, having a country expand its borders into the colony will destroy it)

 

[Hydromancerx]

I'm obviously not Hydro, but here are my pennies.

Dancing Hoskuld is the religion guy. I tend to try to stay away from all that with a 10 foot pole. And when I have done stuff such as inheriting buildings from GeneralStaff like the Revivalist Church, people like Joe were offended and had me change them. So rather than the Revivalist Church being a more negative building its a positive building and a Fanatics Compound was made to take it previous stats.