Just from an immersion point of view, if I'm going to lose a non-combat unit to something, I'd rather it be almost anything but a pigeon, duck or other silly creature. At least let it be a wolf, crocodile or something vicious!
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Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)
- Thread starter strategyonly
- Start date
AIexanderTheGr8
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2014
- Messages
- 12
I like hunting ducks, just not being hunted BY ducks.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I've been an advocate of your suggestion for some time now and have been told that the reluctance is on two points:
1) If they can't attack then scouting units that are also incapable of attacking can get stuck on a clogged map of animals.
2) If they can't attack then it inhibits the ability of scouting units to hunt as they must 'bait' animals to attack them to be able to in the first place.
My counters to this have been:
1) What if we make it possible for two enemy units that cannot attack to share the same tile? (Not as easy to manipulate the code for this as it may sound and it's been one of those things I've been meaning to play around with for a long time now.)
2) If #1 is in place then it just means there's more need to get hunters out rather than just a bunch of recon units.
I also want to create a few new animal AI settings to help differentiate their behaviors a bit so as to get them to reflect their natural behaviors somewhat more accurately... a couple years ago some good AI categories were suggested for this and I've been wanting to get on that ever since.
Additionally, I have long been of the belief that we need to give ALL units SOME strength. One of the big problems with this situation is not only that ducks are rabid but that a singular duck is envisioned to be capable of taking down a fair sized group of unarmed humans. If this were RL I'd be saying, "Good luck duck." But in the game, which is supposed to be growing closer and closer to being a decently realistic model of real world dynamics, our unarmed humans have the strength of a gnat - all it takes is approaching them and they surrender. They should have SOME strength, even if it's not much. (Certainly it would be more than that of a Duck for crying out loud!) The problem here is that numerous portions of code assume ways to interact with units like settlers and workers on the basis that they should have no strength. If we give them any, for example, the AI won't see them as something that will need any protection, which they really still will. So I've thought of some ways to address this but again... so many projects, so little time.
There's more to my long term thinking here but I won't go into all that much detail because I'm really stuck on too many immediate project concerns to expect I'll ever get to it by the time this post is long forgotten.
Xeer
Chieftain
I don't mind if it's called maize, and I've lived in the U.S. my whole life (born in Ohio, currently living in Los Angeles). Most Americans are familiar with the word maize, even though we call it corn all the time. I think the reaction most people from here would have is more "Huh! OK, so it's called 'maize' now" instead of "Ah! That's just something not right!"
Having grown up in the Midwest, surrounded by quite a bit of agricultural area, I know most of them know the word maize and wouldn't have any trouble adjusting.
Understand, please, that this is no offense or criticism, Thunderbrd. I greatly respect the work you and others do on this terrific mod. But I think this is just a personal problem you have with the word. Most of our fellow Americans would adjust just fine.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
lol... it's just banter anyhow my friends. It just rubs me wrong personally I guess.
Xeer
Chieftain
Yeah, it happens. We all have little things that bug us. I know I have several that other people would find silly.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I suppose this means I should be more understanding of Vokarya's issue with the 'Commercial' part of the name of the Commercial Whaling tech... since I've found I, too, can suffer a pet peeve others may see as silly.
Sorry Vo... if you feel as strongly about that as I do about calling corn maize then I've found a way to insight into your position there. I know I was never too supportive of your view on that. I should've been moreso. In fact, I'm tempted to change it right now in recognition of that! lol
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Double post oops
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Commercial Whaling has the name Commercial in it because there was whaling before that tech. It just was not at the huge scale that it was back then.
If you want to rename it how about we call it "Modern Whaling"?
Hear hear I completely agree. May I just add that these unaggressive animals should then be able to spawn and traverse inside ones cultural borders.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
That was always my argument as well. I'm just trying to turn over a leaf here...
Vokarya always just wanted it to be Whaling. Nothing in front of it as he felt anything there would be superfluous.
I'd say Industrial Whaling would also cover it.
Maybe we should offer an olive branch and ask him and let that be his choice. When asked once what he disliked MOST about the WHOLE mod, his answer was the name of the Commercial Whaling tech.
Agreed... And a mechanism for that has been developed. However, DH has informed me that the Great Wall causes problems for that... to which we've discussed some adjustments to the way the GW mechanism actually works (I've forgotten what came of those discussions though... ugh it's been some years we've been working on these things!)
Azurian
The Azurian
@Sparth
Assets\Modules\StrategyOnly\GreatPersonMod\Art\GreatPeople
1,164 .dds files
150 MBs
Can we pack them all in one .fpk?
I noticed when I have done a SVN Checkout in the past, these files have taken forever to download 1 by 1. 1,163 less files should have some sort of perfomance boost as well.
Assets\Modules\StrategyOnly\GreatPersonMod\Art\GreatPeople
1,164 .dds files
150 MBs
Can we pack them all in one .fpk?
I noticed when I have done a SVN Checkout in the past, these files have taken forever to download 1 by 1. 1,163 less files should have some sort of perfomance boost as well.
Cool.
In case it hasn't been thought of regarding the great wall problem:
Would it not be easiest to split the animals from the barbarian faction, and make a new faction for them with it's own rules? The skulls and bones flag could for the new faction be changed out with a mother nature type symbol.
Azurian
The Azurian
deleted
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
That has long been the plan yes. However, I DID find that to do this would break compatibility unless a much better programmer than I can work around those problems.
charlesb96
King
As for the seemingly inoffensive animals "attacking" and killing defenseless units, you have to remember the time scale we are talking about as well. A pigeon does not attack a worker and peck its eyes out, this takes place over years, centuries even. They spread disease and that is what kills the worker, not an actual "attack". The same way a spearman has a chance to bring down a B-17, not through an "attack" but with wear and tear over time.
I disagree with this logic, a worker unit represents a workforce of interchanging individual workers due to retirement, disablement, natural deaths and personal occupational change. That the workplace of this unit is lush with pigeons should not always cause an epidemic that kills off the whole workforce in such a pace that they are not capable of maintaining their work; unless they have warriors to defend them from this disease.
If it is a demand for such a random natural decimation of a unit, then it should be incorporated trough the event system, or in a similar different way.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Doesn't work we started with it that way! If you have a wild animal as defend only, you wont be able to capture them with your hunters because they will run away. Also they will surround your scouts so that the scouts can't move.
Oh, and "Demon Duck of Doom" is the nickname for a real but extinct bird in Australia. It was big, carnivorous and could "rip your arm off" - just like "Aunty Jack" for those Australians old enough to remember the TV show.
The event system only allows one event per player per turn whereas as many workers as are alone in the wilderness can be killed by something. Other mods have used a "force of nature" unit for that purpose.
Oh, and "Demon Duck of Doom" is the nickname for a real but extinct bird in Australia. It was big, carnivorous and could "rip your arm off" - just like "Aunty Jack" for those Australians old enough to remember the TV show.
The event system only allows one event per player per turn whereas as many workers as are alone in the wilderness can be killed by something. Other mods have used a "force of nature" unit for that purpose.
I'm sure that almost none of you will be able to actually view this programme, but Professor Brian Cox, the physicist and former musician (as opposed to Brian May, the musician and former physicist), is doing a new science series on the BBC (called Human Universe), where the first episode is somewhat amusingly entitled Apeman to Spaceman.
charlesb96
King
may have been mentioned already, but since we went back to less civs, the ONLY South America civ left is Inca, and the ONLY Oceania civ left is Australia. There needs to be more for these culture areas than just one civ
