Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[BlueGenie]

I agree Harrier. It comes very early and gives a rather great advantage (though are they able to take on transports). A Viking Culture should also have that ability with it's Longboats too as well then, and be able to take along troops. A Longboat should be available somewhere around 500AD, the Polynesian probably a bit earlier though possibly not as early as nations get to Sailing (and Piracy) is way early too in the tech tree). Maybe move the Sailing tech forward a bit instead.

I would suggest not changing it though but instead adding "Deep Ocean" and "Shallows" to the ocean terrains, allowing Poly's Catamaran to brave Oceans and Longboats to brave Deep Oceans.
Other sea vessels can have various other allowances and the double movement added to a lot of early boats now could have that on only Shallows.

Shallows being along the coastal line (but possibly not on ALL coastal plots) and if set to not be on all those maybe even have some kind of bonus yields (or a building, or be required for Fisherman's Hut and require Coast to build a "Fishing Boat's Wharf" instead that replaces the Hut so only one of them can be built).
Coast being either only on the plot outside Shallows or mixed in with the Shallows in the coastal plots.
Ocean being a few plots out from Coasts, more possibly on larger maps, less on smaller maps, and Deep Ocean filling up the rest.

Shallows might even negate the use of Submarines on those plots, and of larger ocean-going vessels.

All in the spirit of "more is better"!

Cheers

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I did try and add a deep ocean terrain but the graphics did not work well with what we have.

Splitting ocean/coastal from depth is a good idea imho. Currently both reefs and coral are features that suggest shallow coastal water and now that we can upgrade features when improvements upgrade we can put some proper restrictions on movement through the plot.

The problem with the method of navigation used by the Polynesian Culture is that it involves lying in the bottom of the boat and closing your eyes. In the Pacific Ocean there is a regular swell that always runs the same way. Therefor you can navigate quite well without sight of land no matter how deep the ocean of how far you are from the shore.

The expansion westward by the Vikings happened because there is a strong water current that goes west near a steady air stream that goes east, making a highway with median strip in effect. Plus the "sun stone" invention helped.

 

[liosalpha]

Some thing makes me wonder how they come to those inventions/discoveries.
Stuff like closing you eyes and just wait in a little canoe. How someone though putting bad milk on a shelf and letting it sit for some time would make cheese. Or grape juice that was made by your great great great grand parents would be drinkable....

back on topic. I get sometimes resources in deep ocean like fish mostly. That lets me cross deep ocean if that is between two coasts.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Units accessing the oceans before Astronomy.

The Polynesian Culture unit "Catamaran" can enter oceans before Astronomy. It is available with the tech "Sailing" and the "Canoe builders hut".This does not seem right to me.

They can explore the map 100's of turns before other civs. They even have stronger attack/defence against sea creatures to help them. If on a random map that seems an unfair and unlikely advantage. They only managed to initialy populate parts of the Pacific ocean when sea levels were low. Then took hundreds of years to reach other islands.

If this is wanted for a scenario - e.g. World map etc. - you can connect isolated islands by placing a coastal tile link through the ocean between them. That is what I do in SEM+.

I know I can alter this for my own use by changing the relevant 'Civ4unitinfos' file and altering the <TerrainImpassible> tag. Because I do not want them to reach Asia or the America's in SEM+ before Astronomy.

But thought I should bring it to your attention - as the effected civs have only recently been added to the base mod.

Before they were custom civs and had to be edited into the mod.

If you decide to make the change, the relevant file is in:

Modules\ls612\CultureUnits\

I disagree, The Oceania cultures have far less cultures to get than the other types. A such they should be able to have an awesome unit like the Catamaran.

@BlueGenie

The Viking idea is a cool idea. I would need to adjust the other units since each culture is only allowed one UU. Which currently is the Berserker.

I also wish we could get some sort of Inuit ice walking unit that could cross ice ice tiles on water.

Some thing makes me wonder how they come to those inventions/discoveries.
Stuff like closing you eyes and just wait in a little canoe. How someone though putting bad milk on a shelf and letting it sit for some time would make cheese. Or grape juice that was made by your great great great grand parents would be drinkable....

Or even olives. The process of just making olives edibale must have been crazy to figure out.

 

[Arakhor]

I disagree, The Oceania cultures have far less cultures to get than the other types. A such they should be able to have an awesome unit like the Catamaran.

Really? They don't have enough stuff, so something they do have should be overpowered?

 

[Noriad2]

Units accessing the oceans before Astronomy.

The Polynesian Culture unit "Catamaran" can enter oceans before Astronomy. It is available with the tech "Sailing" and the "Canoe builders hut".This does not seem right to me.

They can explore the map 100's of turns before other civs. They even have stronger attack/defence against sea creatures to help them. If on a random map that seems an unfair and unlikely advantage. They only managed to initialy populate parts of the Pacific ocean when sea levels were low. Then took hundreds of years to reach other islands.

I know I can alter this for my own use by changing the relevant 'Civ4unitinfos' file and altering the <TerrainImpassible> tag. Because I do not want them to reach Asia or the America's in SEM+ before Astronomy.

The assumption that Polynesians never reached America may be wrong. The below documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6IrMjfbh6E

shows evidence that the oldest inhabitants of South America were related to the Australian Aboriginals.

 

[Thunderbrd]

What is on the book for a very near future project is to have ships be rated by seaworthiness which would form the basis for a round by round chance, if they are in an ocean tile, to be swallowed by the sea. Catamarans would then just be a bit abnormally seaworthy for their era.

 

[Harrier]

What is on the book for a very near future project is to have ships be rated by seaworthiness which would form the basis for a round by round chance, if they are in an ocean tile, to be swallowed by the sea. Catamarans would then just be a bit abnormally seaworthy for their era.

Sounds good.

 

[Hummvie]

Anyone else catch that on the cloud destroyer on the description it says something along the lines of "female version cannot be placed but the male can to take over" Idk something like that, too lazy to bother. Go find out

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Anyone else catch that on the cloud destroyer on the description it says something along the lines of "female version cannot be placed but the male can to take over" Idk something like that, too lazy to bother. Go find out

That means there is something wrong with the cloud destroyer XML somewhere. I can't remember what causes that message but it is an error somewhere in the XML. It is valid on the female units for missionaries and corporate execs only.

 

[dan1ell1ma]

We really need a filter to select education buildings and disease/antidisease buildings.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I know we do... from a players perspective it's getting very important to have property manipulator filters. Actually getting setup for that is going to be rather difficult.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It is all done in the python isn't it?

 

[Noriad2]

There is a button in the upper right corner (the one with the Che Guevara picture) that used to give a list of cities and their revolution status, and changes in that status. It is half broken now in that you need to configure the list of revolution parameters yourself, but I remember that it worked fine in C2C version 33.

What I'd also like is the ability to summon a similar list of all cities and a column with city properties like education, crime etc. And changes in those values.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It is all done in the python isn't it?

No. The button is but the filter system is defined in the code. So we'd need to invoke some teamwork to get the widget and filter defined in the code then handed to python for the button itself. The filter alone is going to be a trick considering the nature of the property manipulator data but that could be done on this end - it's the button I wouldn't know how to then implement.

 

[platyping]

Whether it is adding a button on the screen and what happens when you press the button, in this case to filter what items to display, it can all be done in python.

 

[God-Emperor]

There is a button in the upper right corner (the one with the Che Guevara picture) that used to give a list of cities and their revolution status, and changes in that status. It is half broken now in that you need to configure the list of revolution parameters yourself, but I remember that it worked fine in C2C version 33.

What I'd also like is the ability to summon a similar list of all cities and a column with city properties like education, crime etc. And changes in those values.

You should already be able to do that. The domestic adviser is customizable. Inside the game, with the domestic advisor up there should be a button with which you can add a page. You can set the page to shows the properties and change in properties for you cities by picking those off the list of things you can show. I always do this (and I think my Rocks 2 Rockets mod-mod comes with one already set up). I don't know if properties have to be added to the list manually or if it picks up all of them automatically, so it is possible that Education, for example, isn't on the list.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Whether it is adding a button on the screen and what happens when you press the button, in this case to filter what items to display, it can all be done in python.

If it's to be done along the same lines as AI Andy set up these filters then it would be a dll and python procedure.

 

[Noriad2]

You should already be able to do that. The domestic adviser is customizable. Inside the game, with the domestic advisor up there should be a button with which you can add a page. You can set the page to shows the properties and change in properties for you cities by picking those off the list of things you can show. I always do this (and I think my Rocks 2 Rockets mod-mod comes with one already set up). I don't know if properties have to be added to the list manually or if it picks up all of them automatically, so it is possible that Education, for example, isn't on the list.

Maybe it is my configuration, but the page I add and customize about revolution risk, is not saved and gets deleted every time I restart the game. Only the 5 default pages stay.
It would be nice if a page containing the revolution risk is added back to the default pages, as it was in V33.

My SVN version is a few weeks old, but I haven't found any of the city properties (crime, education, disease etc) yet in the list of page elements.

But the list of possible elements is very long (over 8000 elements?), maybe I overlooked them.

Education and crime are the most important figures now, revolution is only an issue if crime goes out of control, and crime usually goes out of control because of highly negative education (at least at deity/nightmare).

So a page of cities listing education and crime levels (and their recent change) would be even more useful.

 

[MacCoise]

Maybe it is my configuration, but the page I add and customize about revolution risk, is not saved and gets deleted every time I restart the game. Only the 5 default pages stay.
It would be nice if a page containing the revolution risk is added back to the default pages, as it was in V33.

.

Yes this is a nuisance, is there a solution?

I haven't actually tried this with the Revolution scheme but I found my adjusted settings "stick" better if I load the MOD and then load the game. (Instead of just loading my game from BTS)

The domestic advisor screen can be saved with the properties showing on the latest SVN but it took a while for them to "stick"


The property values are right at the bottom on the list of things can be added