Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

iirc The food waste mechanic is mainly there to slow growth in the first era. The wastage gets less and less as you get more techs and buildings. I believe both reduce the waste. This means that it is not only different as time goes on but is affected by the buildings you use.

I agree the documentation on this is not easily found.

I don't think it has been moved out of the DLL and included in the XML so that it can be included in the pedia and adjusted independently.

I'm pretty sure food waste increases with era (correlation, not causation), because you have cities with more people, and you're producing more food per unit of population. I've found in my 40.0 game (I think there is a save on here somewhere), food waste becomes huge later in the game. New cities in the Information Era (where I left off) can sometimes waste more food than they consume.

I like the idea of limiting growth, but I think we need a different concept. We can keep food waste, but it would have a smaller impact, and be affected by more appropriate factors (like civics; a capitalist economy, for example, wastes more food than a communist economy, because food is thrown out if people can't afford it).

I think something regarding birth rate and infant mortality should affect food. Perhaps there could be auto-buildings from unhealth (net or gross). Various buildings can be edited to have a reduction in food or growth. For example, the Omega Child Crew could reduce food/growth, since children who work don't grow as old or reproduce as much, sometimes dying from too much work. There could be a replacement building in the Industrial Era, to reflect the child labor laws of the time. The Omega Child Crew is a strong building, so giving it a downside would, if anything, make you think whether or not you want to build it in every city.

Basically, any building that reflects overexertion of a workforce could limit population growth (like slavery buildings/specialists).
 
I agree, as it's now, I don't like the food waste mechanic either.
Perhaps the modders could change the food increases to, for example, 0.2 per pop?
So firt one uses 3 food, second one uses 3.2 food and so on?
Or perhaps 0.15 per pop, or 0.25 per pop? (depends on how you want to balance it).
Or you could increase the :yuck: per pop to 1.5 instead of 1.
That'd make the game experience way simpler IMHO.

Thunderbird, what's your opinion on this? If I recall correctly you were the one who designed this mechanic afterall, so your opinion is the most relevant one.
I designed the increases in consumption but did not design the food waste system. I've always been a little lost on the math in it. I don't like how little it is explained to the player but I just understand it as, the more you make over what you need, the more you waste, but never more than 100% of what you added. I have always wanted it to be more transparent and I've always wanted tags for techs and buildings that could adjust the wastage.

At some point, unless someone else gets to it before I do, I would go in and design a method that sits right with me. Might be a few years given the design track I'm on will take a long time to get done what I already have planned and I'm done being distracted from it for a long while here.

Increasing the cumulative food per pop would be possible maybe but I started it off at twice as potent as it is now and it felt like a bit too restrictive at the time. Maybe it won't be now that it's become the standard. We could look at an increase at some point soon perhaps.
 
Then we deeply disagree.
I find such mechanic counter-intuitive and annoying as increasing your :food: doesn't necesarely benefit the player and forces the player to micromanage spamming food caravans/merchants.
If you want to limit the growth of cities we already have :yuck: (which is only problematic during the ancient age and the early industrial age), :mad:(which is never a problem) and additional :food: per pop, I don't think we need a fourth mechanic to limit growth.

At some point, unless someone else gets to it before I do, I would go in and design a method that sits right with me
Sure, do as you will, but I'm telling you this with my best intentions and I don't think ignoring player's opinion is a good thing for both of us.
 
I think the food waste system does what it should, restricting growth like crazy but not stopping it and still having an effect when you add more food. I am strictly against changing this or trying to circumvent it. I like it how fast the cities grow currently and wouldn't want to change it.
I agree. There are things I find frustrating about the mechanism... and I even like those! :p
 
Sure, do as you will, but I'm telling you this with my best intentions and I don't think ignoring player's opinion is a good thing for both of us.
Nothing can happen overnight or it all would be done already. I'm not sitting on idle waiting for the next opinion to react to here. There are tons of things needing fixed and corrected and improved. So ... this is just another one of them.

I think the food waste system does what it should, restricting growth like crazy but not stopping it and still having an effect when you add more food. I am strictly against changing this or trying to circumvent it. I like it how fast the cities grow currently and wouldn't want to change it.
Good to know growth balance is good right now but there are still a few things I'd like to improve about the waste system so that it's more transparent and interacts better with tech improvements.
 
Hammurabi's Stele of Laws
Requires Mesopotamism as state religion. Give free Courthouse in every city.
Available in Ancient era, but Courthouse requires Code of Laws - tech from Classical era (next one). Is it intentional?
Also, when is Mesopotamism a state religion, you can build Ziggurat, which is replacement for a Courthouse.

I guess Courthouse effect in Ancient era is intentional to emphasize Hammurabi's Stele of Laws significance. Maybe give it "free Ziggurat in every city" instead of "free Courthouse" effect? Also, it seems Ziggurat doesn't decrease corruption. But free Courthouse from Hammurabi's Stele of Laws does.
 
Hammurabi's Stele of Laws
Requires Mesopotamism as state religion. Give free Courthouse in every city.
Available in Ancient era, but Courthouse requires Code of Laws - tech from Classical era (next one). Is it intentional?
Also, when is Mesopotamism a state religion, you can build Ziggurat, which is replacement for a Courthouse.

I guess Courthouse effect in Ancient era is intentional to emphasize Hammurabi's Stele of Laws significance. Maybe give it "free Ziggurat in every city" instead of "free Courthouse" effect? Also, it seems Ziggurat doesn't decrease corruption. But free Courthouse from Hammurabi's Stele of Laws does.
It is intentional. Wonders are supposed to do something wondrous.
Good points about the ziggurat. Most likely oversights.
 
At very end of game you should be able to generate infinite amount of science and culture.

Generate random strings of 0's and 1's
Spoiler :

Civ4BeyondSword 2020-04-01 12-04-08-43.png



Analyse that stuff.
You will get tons of stuff with one typo, with misplaced atom, or dead/miscolored pixels.
Yes, you can get all versions of Caveman2Cosmos including one with each word translated to random language.
As for energy bill.... that little manoeuvrer costed us 10^10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 joules of energy.
Spoiler :

Civ4BeyondSword 2020-04-01 12-04-14-52.png


You could generate universes on whim at random state with everything already present.
Simulations are same thing as reality at that tech level.

In Caveman2Cosmos Omniverse everything you believe is true, but you are in wrong place and wrong time ;)
Also science, technology, culture, religion and spirituality is one thing at those energy scales ;^)

I wonder how Pepper came with those ideas.
 
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Hey, first post on this forum. Im playing civ series like over 15 years. Last year i came back to IV and i proved C2C for first time. Amazing experience, so much respect to people who are working on this mod. I salute you!

Now, few things. I patched mod to newest ver. like 2 months ago, and after that i have observed massive slowdown of the game. I havent that problem in later version. For example im playing now a game on huge map with marathon pace , im on turn 2250 its around 950AD and i have to wait like 2-3 minutes after clicking turn button, im afraid whats it gonna be in later stages of the game ofc if i will have enough patience to continue this. Do you have any idea what can i do to speed things up? because making one turn in 5 minutes deprives me of any will to play it longer.
 
Hey, first post on this forum. Im playing civ series like over 15 years. Last year i came back to IV and i proved C2C for first time. Amazing experience, so much respect to people who are working on this mod. I salute you!

Now, few things. I patched mod to newest ver. like 2 months ago, and after that i have observed massive slowdown of the game. I havent that problem in later version. For example im playing now a game on huge map with marathon pace , im on turn 2250 its around 950AD and i have to wait like 2-3 minutes after clicking turn button, im afraid whats it gonna be in later stages of the game ofc if i will have enough patience to continue this. Do you have any idea what can i do to speed things up? because making one turn in 5 minutes deprives me of any will to play it longer.
Play on Small or Standard map.
Huge and bigger are more suited for Waterworld styled map with high sea levels.

You can upload save, are you playing on V40.1?
Also you can't patch mod, you have to delete old version before installing new version - files tend to be deleted or moved around.
 
You can upload save, are you playing on V40.1?
Also you can't patch mod, you have to delete old version before installing new version - files tend to be deleted or moved around.


Yes im playing on v40.1 , and yes i know i cant patch mod i just need to do things you wrote.

I attached save file.
 

Attachments

Yes im playing on v40.1 , and yes i know i cant patch mod i just need to do things you wrote.

I attached save file.
Suggestion get SVN (see SVN Changelog Thread 1st post of how to get it) and use it to update on a regular basis. Much Optimization has been done even after v 40.1.
Suggestion 2: Don't play on longest Game Speeds. Use any Game Speed (GS) from Blitz (1000 turns) to Marathon (8000 turns) ie Blitz ,Normal, Long , Epic, or Marathon. By using these GS you will keep the End of Turn (EoT) wait down to more manageable/comfortable waits.

This is a Turn based game with an 14 yr old engine that is 32 bit designed. You Will experience some processing time between turns. Plus there are some Options In BUG that will help with EoT processing times as well. Still you will have some wait time as the game gets advanced thru the later Eras.

Number of AI set, size of Map, and Options used to play will all affect EoT.

Thanks for playing C2C. :)
 
Then we deeply disagree.
I find such mechanic counter-intuitive and annoying as increasing your :food: doesn't necesarely benefit the player and forces the player to micromanage spamming food caravans/merchants.
If you want to limit the growth of cities we already have :yuck: (which is only problematic during the ancient age and the early industrial age), :mad:(which is never a problem) and additional :food: per pop, I don't think we need a fourth mechanic to limit growth.


Sure, do as you will, but I'm telling you this with my best intentions and I don't think ignoring player's opinion is a good thing for both of us.

Please do not be offended by this post.

When it was 1st introduced I did not like it either. But...…, over time I have adapted to it. Just like many many changes that have occurred in the Mod over the years. Adapt or move on. If it's Option induced stop using the Option, etc. We provide amny ways to play this Mod. And many of us have Long since dropped the "Suggested way to Play". Explore the Set Up Options and find a set that suits your taste for a 4X turn based game. Some times less Options used can be a much better and enjoyable way to play then using as many as you can. Again try different combinations of Set Up Options to find you preferred way to play.

One last thing, your arguments are nothing new. The Team has seen and discussed most all of them at one time or another ( and many of them multiple times and sometimes heatedly). Please be aware that we have been at this for a long time.

Just sayin', we've been around the block a few times. ;)
 
Hammurabi's Stele of Laws
Requires Mesopotamism as state religion. Give free Courthouse in every city.
Available in Ancient era, but Courthouse requires Code of Laws - tech from Classical era (next one). Is it intentional?
Also, when is Mesopotamism a state religion, you can build Ziggurat, which is replacement for a Courthouse.

I guess Courthouse effect in Ancient era is intentional to emphasize Hammurabi's Stele of Laws significance. Maybe give it "free Ziggurat in every city" instead of "free Courthouse" effect? Also, it seems Ziggurat doesn't decrease corruption. But free Courthouse from Hammurabi's Stele of Laws does.
It looks like there were not enough wonders for Mesopotamism so Hammurabi's Stele of Laws was moved from being a general great wonder to a religious wonder, but the person who did the move forgot or missed this.

Personally I would go with it giving free Courthouses and not have the Ziggurat replace the Courthouse. I can't think of any other religious building that replaces a standard building but many that suppement one.
 
It looks like there were not enough wonders for Mesopotamism so Hammurabi's Stele of Laws was moved from being a general great wonder to a religious wonder, but the person who did the move forgot or missed this.

Personally I would go with it giving free Courthouses and not have the Ziggurat replace the Courthouse. I can't think of any other religious building that replaces a standard building but many that suppement one.
Ziggurat doesn't replace anything.
Spoiler :

Civ4BeyondSword 2020-04-01 21-30-12-23.png
Civ4BeyondSword 2020-04-01 21-30-27-49.png

 
Suggestion get SVN (see SVN Changelog Thread 1st post of how to get it) and use it to update on a regular basis. Much Optimization has been done even after v 40.1.
Suggestion 2: Don't play on longest Game Speeds. Use any Game Speed (GS) from Blitz (1000 turns) to Marathon (8000 turns) ie Blitz ,Normal, Long , Epic, or Marathon. By using these GS you will keep the End of Turn (EoT) wait down to more manageable/comfortable waits.

This is a Turn based game with an 14 yr old engine that is 32 bit designed. You Will experience some processing time between turns. Plus there are some Options In BUG that will help with EoT processing times as well. Still you will have some wait time as the game gets advanced thru the later Eras.

Number of AI set, size of Map, and Options used to play will all affect EoT.

Thanks for playing C2C. :)


Hey Hey that SVN thing works really nice! Thanks a lot!
 
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