Caveman 2 Cosmos

[BlueGenie]

I'm not sure what the AI gets in way of bonuses for happy/health but I don't think you can actually see exactly what they have giving happy and unhappy via the world builder. The best for getting this sorted would probably be giving the Team a save to check on properly as they know how to look for what might or might not be wrong.

Cheers

 

[Terxpahseyton]

delete

 

[perilousride]

The only thing they could possibly have that I cannot see is hidden bonuses that the AI gets on Noble (the setting that I am playing the game at). So, are there hidden happiness bonuses that the AI gets on that setting?
I understand that resources and all of that add happiness, but Sitting Bull doesn't have much of anything, except too many cities. Most of the AI have twice (12) as many cities as their civics allow, but no unhappiness in any cities. That defies the rule completely. There is no way they should have twelve cities with Chiefdom, and none of their cities are unhappy. Something is wrong.

 

[BlueGenie]

I had in my current game. It's not just buildings, it's resources, and how buildings interact with each other and with resources.
Check out Wimpy's post in Tips and Trick in the Strategy section, it's near the end of that thread. It gives a run down on possible ways to increase early happiness.

Cheers

 

[perilousride]

They don't have any buildings in their new cities. They should be unhappy, because mine would be. They have eleven cities. Six is their limit. That is a -15 midifier for a city with no buildings. The cities aren't even connected by road, so they cannot have any resources. There are no excuses.
Somehow the AI is getting happiness where they shouldn't be, or they aren't getting the unhappiness penalty. Sitting Bull has nothing, he sucks in this game, yt still can maintain 11 unconnected cities with Chiefdom. All he has done is build stacks of archers, hunters, and settlers. The game would have to be giving him happiness.

 

[BlueGenie]

Not connected by river/coast/lakes?
But like I stated before, no one can check if there's anything wrong without a savegame to look at.

Cheers

 

[Koshling]

They don't have any buildings in their new cities. They should be unhappy, because mine would be. They have eleven cities. Six is their limit. That is a -15 midifier for a city with no buildings. The cities aren't even connected by road, so they cannot have any resources. There are no excuses.
Somehow the AI is getting happiness where they shouldn't be, or they aren't getting the unhappiness penalty. Sitting Bull has nothing, he sucks in this game, yt still can maintain 11 unconnected cities with Chiefdom. All he has done is build stacks of archers, hunters, and settlers. The game would have to be giving him happiness.

If it's the latest SVN it might be the caching bug that screws up un happyness from over-limit cities as per AIAndy's fix earlier today (so if it is updating to today's SVN should fix it)

 

[perilousride]

There isn't any water source to connect them. Not even rivers. A single river doesn't go from any one of their cites to another. One thing I have also noticed is that the AI cites are growing at a much faster rate then mine, no matter what. All they do is build units, a few buildings, and they don't even do hardly anything with the land around them. Very few roads, they leave some resources untouched, and do a very poor job of building their cities.
All they do is build units that they don't even need. Some cites have over twenty units.
So, why are their cites growing so much faster than mine?
I think the negative civic modifiers for growth and number of cites look like they work, but actually only affect the player. I know you may dispute this, but make sure it is for sure. It doesn't matter what version of this I have played it always is the same.
The AI builds a few buildings, leaves a lot of land untended, a lot of resources untouched, and builds tons of units. They always build a lot of cities. I use world builder to look, and they have done basically nothing more than build units. Yet, their cites are growing at a much faster rate.
It is the first guy to build the most cities who builds most of the wonders. Then, those after him. Any AI that doesn't build enough cities is left far behind in everything. So, the AI just races to see who can build the most cities, and does a terrible job of civ management. I don't think the AI knows how to use the myth of the animals, because that is all that keeps me in the game. I get huge technology boosts from those, even though I am sure they subdue far more animals with their numerous hunters. Then we get writing, and it destroys our research. Getting writing destroys our research? Yes. We have to work our way back up, and beat the enemy where they slip up to get to the top of the game. It is a real good mod, because of all of the features (the best one), but the AI is still really predictable. It is just a race to build the most cities, and the AI mostly build tons of units. I am the only one who develops his cities, every single game. I always play on Noble. If you fixed any of this for the newest version, then I guess I just need to upgrade.

 

[BlueGenie]

You always play on Noble?
With the numerous features in C2C the AI can't quite cope with everything yet so it's generally recommended to play at 2 difficulties higher than one normally does.

I do agree with the sentiment of getting Writing destroys ones research. Should really be the other way around, one would think.
Though there is a reason, well, not exactly why at Writing, for obsoleting all the Myths: They are meant to enable some research in the Prehistoric Era and need to be faded out somewhere in the Ancient Era as around then other things give Research huge boosts. This reason I agree with, just not all at once, and certainly not at Writing.
Luckily, perhaps anyway, I'm not the modder and can't change this. There might be other reasons that I am not privy to.

Cheers

 

[perilousride]

Well, actually I love history. It is a huge hobby of mine. Anything that has to do with world history or geography fascinates me endlessly. So I play this game like what would occur in real-life. I could find excuse that the transition to writing is such a change that people are speinding so much time learning writing, or just having fun with it, that researching other things suffers for a while. So that is not such a problem. It just scares me to get writing when it is like 100 points of research, so I dread getting it. "Oh no I'm getting writing..."
A lot of this mod is pretty spot on for playing it the way I like. The only thing is that, it comes down to a race between the AI for number of cities. You take ancient Greece in real life, they succeeded because they were a safe-haven for people. If you were a brilliant man, you didn't have to worry as much about being robbed or worse as you might in Damascus. They had a much better way of life, that lead to a much more organized machine within each city-state. There was a lot less sensless bloodshed and tyrany. That's what I want the AI to have to do to compete, to develop themselves. Imagine if a real city just build stacks of units. How would it feed all of them? I want the AI to outdo eachother with strategy, not just race for number of cities.
If the number of cities were limited, and the AI couldn't build as many as it likes, they can't race. They have to develop themselves, and the most developed civilizations would advance more rapidly. Every game I have played it is the guy who builds 18 cities, while everyone else has around 10, who builds all of the wonders, is number one in techs, builds way too many units, and the rest of the Ai is pretty much irrelevant.
So, this is an awesome mod. It is the just the AI behavior which needs to be changed to make it more interesting.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

You always play on Noble?
With the numerous features in C2C the AI can't quite cope with everything yet so it's generally recommended to play at 2 difficulties higher than one normally does.

I do agree with the sentiment of getting Writing destroys ones research. Should really be the other way around, one would think.
Though there is a reason, well, not exactly why at Writing, for obsoleting all the Myths: They are meant to enable some research in the Prehistoric Era and need to be faded out somewhere in the Ancient Era as around then other things give Research huge boosts. This reason I agree with, just not all at once, and certainly not at Writing.
Luckily, perhaps anyway, I'm not the modder and can't change this. There might be other reasons that I am not privy to.

Cheers

Myths were originally designed to help simulate the burst of knowledge at the end of the paleolithic era. At the time they were added the tech tree was much smaller. I also intended to add more thing to the myths some of which are in game, like Egyptian and Mesoamerican temples costing less if you have spotted cat myth and so on, to represent the ceremonial robes and the like.

If you have any suggestions on when they should become obsolete would be welcome. There many different options for animal use now. I use the "fighting animals" option for excess animals because I play with realistic culture spread and really want to get that resource.

I am also working on the Monastery science obsolescence stuff. Changing them from % to flat some of which never expires.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@DH
Please Tell BG why you only play on Noble. As do I.

JosEPh

 

[gdambrauskas]

Well, actually I love history. It is a huge hobby of mine. Anything that has to do with world history or geography fascinates me endlessly. So I play this game like what would occur in real-life. I could find excuse that the transition to writing is such a change that people are speinding so much time learning writing, or just having fun with it, that researching other things suffers for a while. So that is not such a problem. It just scares me to get writing when it is like 100 points of research, so I dread getting it. "Oh no I'm getting writing..."
A lot of this mod is pretty spot on for playing it the way I like. The only thing is that, it comes down to a race between the AI for number of cities. You take ancient Greece in real life, they succeeded because they were a safe-haven for people. If you were a brilliant man, you didn't have to worry as much about being robbed or worse as you might in Damascus. They had a much better way of life, that lead to a much more organized machine within each city-state. There was a lot less sensless bloodshed and tyrany. That's what I want the AI to have to do to compete, to develop themselves. Imagine if a real city just build stacks of units. How would it feed all of them? I want the AI to outdo eachother with strategy, not just race for number of cities.
If the number of cities were limited, and the AI couldn't build as many as it likes, they can't race. They have to develop themselves, and the most developed civilizations would advance more rapidly. Every game I have played it is the guy who builds 18 cities, while everyone else has around 10, who builds all of the wonders, is number one in techs, builds way too many units, and the rest of the Ai is pretty much irrelevant.
So, this is an awesome mod. It is the just the AI behavior which needs to be changed to make it more interesting.

writing AI is very hard. Vanilla game has crap AI, now you add 100x more content and ways to play, AI goes down the drain. That's why I play multiplayer games, it's completely boring to play civ with or without mods, even on diety it is not match.

 

[BlueGenie]

@DH
Please Tell BG why you only play on Noble. As do I.

JosEPh

I know both that you do and why you play on Noble. Didn't know DH did though. But it was perilousride I was responding to.
Oh, and almost forgot to say that the game needs testing on all game difficulties to see how the balance is and what might or might not need changing. The team is more along the lines of making the AI better though rather than making the higher difficulties more difficult via extra bonuses for the AI.

That, gdambrauskas, is also why Deity isn't that difficult too. Try setting yourself up with some challenges instead, like removing all options that make it more difficult for the AI, setting restrictions on yourself, following a certain path with a certain nation (I'm doing Romans with Slavery and avoiding all + Wonders while trying for the military ones right now), and so on and on.

@perilousride:
That is interesting. I see and understand growth being a factor in development but I also do not see only the many city civs building all the wonders in my games. I'm wondering if Noble vs. Deity makes that difference, or if it is also due to game speeds. What game speed do you play on usually?
In my current game, and not counting myself, there's one civ with 8 cities and 6 Wonders that aren't Culture Wonders and another with 26 cities and 10 Wonders that aren't Culture Wonders.
The Civs in between that in number of cities/Wonders goes as:
25/1, 24/4, 17/0, 16/0, 14/0, 13/1, 12/1, 12/0, and 9/1.
Mostly though I think you are right as development usually gives more and thus getting to start building the Wonders earlier.
Just interesting to see that all games are not all alike.

Cheers

 

[BlueGenie]

Myths were originally designed to help simulate the burst of knowledge at the end of the paleolithic era. At the time they were added the tech tree was much smaller. I also intended to add more thing to the myths some of which are in game, like Egyptian and Mesoamerican temples costing less if you have spotted cat myth and so on, to represent the ceremonial robes and the like.

If you have any suggestions on when they should become obsolete would be welcome. There many different options for animal use now. I use the "fighting animals" option for excess animals because I play with realistic culture spread and really want to get that resource.

I am also working on the Monastery science obsolescence stuff. Changing them from % to flat some of which never expires.

Sorry for double posting but felt this should go separately DH.

Suggestion/responce:
Myths science bonus could be phased out slower instead of all at once. Once animals can be fully used the science could be dropped in simulation of that once one knows most about something it's hard to learn more from it.
Like Horse Myth with Equine Domestication, Camel with Camel Domestication, Birds at Poultry or Falconry (or have two different Bird Myths, Predator and Prey birds, and phase each out on the appropriate technology), Dogs at Canine Domestication (early, I know, start the phasing out early...), Animal Domestication for phasing out Cow/Bull, Pig/Boar, Goat Myths, and Trade with it's cage buildings for animals could phase out a few out that didn't get phased out earlier.

I'd also like to revisit an earlier suggestion with the Elder Council since you brought up the Monasteries; having Monasteries replace the Elder Council instead of it going obsolete at Writing. The Elder Council was where discussions and debates were taking place but that moved with the coming of Monasteries. Just because you can write it down doesn't mean the discussions and debates stop.
(And reduce the Elder Council to +1, +10%)

Cheers

 

[perilousride]

I always play on the slowest speed possible. I think that would be called Eternal with this mod. I am pretty sure this is not a popular choice with most players due to the enormous time it takes to finish a game, but I have the patience for it. It is probably not a recommended game speed, but it works out pretty well for me for realism.
The AI with the most cities (in all the games I played) uses those cities to build more cities. They just never stop. It multiplies. They end up with more and more cities, and those cities build more and more cities. This gives them way more research than the other AI civs, leaving them far behind in technology. Once they hit the ancient era, they are so much in the drivers seat and start building every wonder in sight. It isn't so obvious at the start, but pretty soon they have built Petra, the Oracle, the Parthenon, the Great Library, the Colossus, and so forth. Eventually you don't even need to guess who built the next wonder.
It would be really cool if the leaders could somehow act like they really would. Stalin would go right to building an internal investigation party, making the city control everything, anybody that gets out of line is dead, anybody that doesn't get out of line might be dead (if Stalin gets a bad feeling about them), he pushes production on a massive level, and keeps everything regulated by the state.
Adolph Hitler creates fake currency to trade for arms related resources, kills off any unwelcome citizens, builds a massive war machine as quickly as possible, and attacks anybody nearby with precious resources before they even know what is going on.
Alexander's military genius never seems to appear in any form, which makes me sad as I really want to match up with him when I see his name on the list of rivals. He does have an iron fist approach, is very decisive, but over-expands (leaving his cities held together by a thread).
Instead, the names are different, but most of the AI is basically the same person with a different name (except Ragnar who always attacks me with a stack of like 40 units).
When I see the names of the greatest leaders in history, that is who I want to be playing against, but it never feels like it. If somehow it could be done, where the leaders acted a little bit more like themselves, it would be the most awesome game ever.
I am pretty sure it cannot be done, but they already did a lot with this mod that didn't seem possible. Everything with it is awesome, except the AI (not their fault), and overpowered pigeons that can kill an injured spearman unit. I cannot imagine the poor souls being torn to bits and pieces by hoards of pigeons or ducks.

 

[dusckr87]

If it's the latest SVN it might be the caching bug that screws up un happyness from over-limit cities as per AIAndy's fix earlier today (so if it is updating to today's SVN should fix it)

Unless i missed something in between, in post 5574 he says he is still playing v23. That may be a reason why he says he is seeing something that others don't.

 

[AIAndy]

Updates

• Added PlotCondition and UnitCondition to Outcome Mission.
• Fixed a bug in outcome result display.

 

[jmmendesp]

Everything with it is awesome, except the AI (not their fault), and overpowered pigeons that can kill an injured spearman unit. I cannot imagine the poor souls being torn to bits and pieces by hoards of pigeons or ducks.

I recently lost a stack of 11 workers to this hellbeast pigeon.

 

[draz]

I recently lost a stack of 11 workers to this hellbeast pigeon.

Yeah I learned early on to not let non-combat units EVER go outside of your borders unescorted, even if it's just for one turn. Some of those pesky animals have 4 (or ignore terrain costs like eagles and hawks), it just isn't worth the risk.