Caveman 2 Cosmos

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Large amount of whale should not be located on sea close to shore unless it's deep sea, and it should definitely be placed on ocean.

There are a number of large bays eg Gulf of California that were breeding areas for whales. It was said that it was possible to walk across the Gulf on the back of whales there were so many there. They should be possible just not common.

 

[Toffer90]

There are a number of large bays eg Gulf of California that were breeding areas for whales. It was said that it was possible to walk across the Gulf on the back of whales there were so many there. They should be possible just not common.

Yes, but since there is no mechanic for making them uncomon on coastal terrain, the best solution would be to limit them to deep sea and ocean. The way it is now it will only be place 1 and 2 tiles away from land ever.

 

[raxo2222]

The Extraction Facility should work at all depths. It starts out only available on the shelf but as remote control and AI improve it can go deeper with no limit. It should probably be an upgrade Oil Rigs.

Sea resources should show up anywhere not just near the shore. How do you know where the cities are going to be to limit them!

Whales should be available as a resource on the continental shelf and in coastal waters.

Events like the migrating herd events need to be made for fist, shrimp and perhaps crab but they should be less likely.

Well, coast and (deep) sea together extends two tiles.

Extraction Facility can go anywhere right when it gets unlocked.
Three tiles away is ocean, and cities can't work on water tile, that is too far.

Some resources in oceans/trenches may never get improved, as cultural borders can go only so far.

No accident, that was how I wanted it.
I did not revert all your changes, many of the deep sea entries you added, I were about to add myself, and kept them there.
Clam, pearl and crab should not be at deep sea and ocean.
Trench can be the third tile away from a city, and whale was the only bonus I set to be able to be there.
Large amount of whale should imo not be located on sea close to shore unless it's deep sea, and it should definitely be placed on ocean. My argument for this is based on gameplay reasons; whale should be harder to reach than, fish, shrimp, lobster, etc.
Why should oil, methane, manganeese and geothermal vent only be on sea tiles and not on ocean tiles?
Why shouldn't fish and shrimp be on ocean plots?
We have a disagreement of opinion here it seems.

Well diff tool was lying then, as it showed, that sea and deep sea entries were replaced back with oceans and trench.
I removed all ocean and trench entries in my commit, so water resources including clams/pearls/crabs were spawning on coasts (if they already did) and (deep) sea, I removed their ability to spawn in deep sea now though.
Ocean/trench entries were removed, because all other mapscripts would generate resources not only too far from city vicinity (more than three tiles from land), significant amount of them could land beyond max reach of cultural borders too.

I guess there should be universal script, that would first place water resources within possible city vicinity (that is no farther than 3 tiles), and then place resources within possible cultural borders (whatever how far culture can go from city) at decreased density.
That is it spawning in oceans shouldn't reduce resource count close to land.

That was more for players, that dislike water resources being out of reach.
Also there is no way for away resource to boost yield.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I reported the bug that stops cultural borders crossing oceans awhile back.

However the extraction facility and other ocean improvements could claim the tile anyway so it does not matter where in the ocean it is.

 

[Toffer90]

Three tiles away is ocean, and cities can't work on water tile, that is too far.

Four tiles away is too far...

Well diff tool was lying then, as it showed, that sea and deep sea entries were replaced back with oceans and trench.

Diff tools don't lie.
I did not remove all of them, I kept deep sea for those that I were about to add it to myself.
e.g. Fish, Shrimp, Whale, Manganeese, Geothermal Sea Vent, Methane, Natural Gas, Oil, (Note: you did not add deep sea to all those I listed there, that was a list of those I were about to add deep sea to.)

I removed all ocean and trench entries in my commit, so water resources including clams/pearls/crabs were spawning on coasts (if they already did) and (deep) sea, I removed their ability to spawn in deep sea now though.
Ocean/trench entries were removed, because all other mapscripts would generate resources not only too far from city vicinity (more than three tiles from land), significant amount of them could land beyond max reach of cultural borders too.

Which map script places bonuses further out from land than 3 tiles? (Note: I know my map-script did that for the last three weeks, but that was a change I quickly realized was a mistake, and I reverted it in my last commit.)

I guess there should be universal script, that would first place water resources within possible city vicinity (that is no farther than 3 tiles), and then place resources within possible cultural borders (whatever how far culture can go from city) at decreased density.
That is it spawning in oceans shouldn't reduce resource count close to land.

There is, most scripts asks the dll if it can place a bonus on a plot, and the dll only allows it if the plot is no further than 3 tiles out to sea.

 

[raxo2222]

Four tiles away is too far...
Diff tools don't lie.
I did not remove all of them, I kept deep sea for those that I were about to add it to myself.
e.g. Fish, Shrimp, Whale, Manganeese, Geothermal Sea Vent, Methane, Natural Gas, Oil, (Note: you did not add deep sea to all those I listed there, that was a list of those I were about to add deep sea to.)
Which map script places bonuses further out from land than 3 tiles? (Note: I know my map-script did that for the last two weeks, but that was a change I quickly realized was a mistake, and I reverted it in my last commit.)
There is, most scripts asks the dll if it can place a bonus on a plot, and the dll only allows it if the plot is no further than 3 tiles out to sea.

I added Deep Sea to all entries - if you checked my file, then you would see, that there was as may Sea entries as Deep Sea entries.

Also I thought it was norm for mapsripts to place water resources father than 3 tiles from land, and only your map script was not placing resources too far.
I'll add Ocean to all entries, that have Deep Sea on them (that is no Clam/Crabs/Pearls in oceans) then, since placement is already limited to 3 tiles away from land.

All water minerals should be placed in trench not just ocean too - that is Manganese, Geothermal Sea Vent, and Methane not just whales.

 

[Toffer90]

@Toffer90 looks like you reverted all my changes here

I added Deep Sea to all entries - if you checked my file, then you would see, that there was as may Sea entries as Deep Sea entries.

I know, and I disagree that all water bonuses should be placed in deep sea, but that doesn't mean I reverted all your changes.

All water minerals should be placed in trench not just ocean too - that is Manganese, Geothermal Sea Vent, and Methane not just whales.

Mining minerals and extracting gas, on the bottom floor of deep ocean trenches would require a better tech to unlock, perhaps we also must add in a new future era type of improvement for that purpose. It is easier to limit those to ocean and sea...
Whaling is pretty much the same regardless of the water depth.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yes, but since there is no mechanic for making them uncomon on coastal terrain, the best solution would be to limit them to deep sea and ocean. The way it is now it will only be place 1 and 2 tiles away from land ever.

I don't know this for sure but do they spawn things that shouldn't be spending time on shorelines?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I reported the bug that stops cultural borders crossing oceans awhile back.

It's not a bug that they can only go as far as a city's workable radius can reach. That's very intentional because early ships are allowed to go wherever the culture claims, even if it's not just the coast.

 

[Toffer90]

I don't know this for sure but do they spawn things that shouldn't be spending time on shorelines?

Raxo made it so that no bonuses whatsoever will ever be placed on ocean terrains, only on sea and coast. I reverted his change but he insist on it and reverted my reversion of his change.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Raxo made it so that no bonuses whatsoever will ever be placed on ocean terrains, only on sea and coast. I reverted his change but he insist on it and reverted my reversion of his change.

I was talking more about the whales being on coastal waters discussion between you and DH. Do whale resources become spawning points for animals that shouldn't be on the coast?

 

[Toffer90]

I was talking more about the whales being on coastal waters discussion between you and DH. Do whale resources become spawning points for animals that shouldn't be on the coast?

Hmm, a perspective I haven't thought about (Toffer looks in files).

The giant squid, Hammerhead Shark, and the Great White Shark could get land locked by it; if:

X = Whale Bonus
S = Shore/Land
C = Coast

C S S
S X C
S C C
S S S
​

Or similar formations.

 

[Thunderbrd]

My explorer boats get slaughtered by Great Whites on the regular but Squids probably shouldn't be able to be coastal.

 

[raxo2222]

Okay, so following resources spawn in:
Clam, Crab, Pearls - Coast, Sea; Clam doesn't spawn in Polar variant.
Fish, Lobster, Murex, Shrimp - Coast, Sea, Deep Sea, Ocean; Murex doesn't spawn in Polar variant.
Whale - Deep Sea, Ocean, Trench

Manganese, Natural Gas, Oil - Sea, Deep Sea, Ocean (Natural gas and Oil spawn on land too)
Geothermal Sea Vent, Methane - Deep Sea, Ocean

@Toffer90 would be that okay?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Knew I should not have updated twice today. smh

 

[Toffer90]

Okay, so following resources spawn in:
Clam, Crab, Pearls - Coast, Sea; Clam doesn't spawn in Polar variant.
Fish, Lobster, Murex, Shrimp - Coast, Sea, Deep Sea, Ocean; Murex doesn't spawn in Polar variant.
Whale - Deep Sea, Ocean, Trench

Manganese, Natural Gas, Oil - Sea, Deep Sea, Ocean (Natural gas and Oil spawn on land too)
Geothermal Sea Vent, Methane - Deep Sea, Ocean

@Toffer90 would be that okay?

Geothermal Sea Vent and Methane can imo be on regular sea too.
Murex (represent Sea Snails of many genuses within the muricidae family) should not be in deep sea and ocean. those thrive in shallower water closer to land, ideally only in coast terrain, but I can accept regular sea too.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Geothermal Sea Vent and Methane can imo be on regular sea too.
Murex (represent Sea Snails of many genuses within the muricidae family) should not be in deep sea and ocean. those thrive in shallower water closer to land, ideally only in coast terrain, but I can accept regular sea too.

This is part of the problem Sea has no meaning as far as depth is concerned it only means that you are over the horizon as far as sitting in a small boat is concerned. This means that all shell critters should be in shallow waters which could be coast, sea or even ocean. So "shelf" or possibly "sea mount" without regard to the navigation classification.

As I said elsewhere I have found a "simple" method of adding in ocean currents, possibly as a non-removable feature. The method is only for oceanic currents or in our terms not continental shelf. It will require some movement changes since your speed in the plot will depend on which way you are going not just one static value. Interestingly enough some Polynesian cultures explored against the current because that way if you got in trouble it was easier to get back home. Yes this is another of our potential projects.

 

[Yudishtira]

max reach of cultural borders

With Fixed Borders there is no max to this reach. (Aside: With cultural borders spreading as stupidly as they currently do, Fixed Borders is pretty much a necessity.)

Please place resources according to realism, regardless of whether any potential city can reach them.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Yes, your borders also spread differently across water depending if you have "Realistic Cultural Spread" on or not.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yes, your borders also spread differently across water depending if you have "Realistic Cultural Spread" on or not.

It doesn't change the maximum reach of them though.