Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Aug 25, 2008.
Only Natron is actually obsoleted.
Also this building gives every plant and animal.
I love this. Mountaineer hunter at turn 137! This tracker has earned a damn lot of free promos since he was a wanderer. (BUG option - Battlefield Promotions on) I'd never realized I can train Mountaineer through the Guerilla pathway!
Surprise attack from a volcano
What I was trying to say is that it WAS obsoleted, even if it's not considered obsoleted at any point now due to a change that was made. A few years ago, it obsoleted completely as a resource when paper was introduced on the tech tree. So at that point, you wouldn't bother to include it in such a late-game effect. When it was changed to not completely obsolete, it probably was never then included back into the collection of every plant and animal resource for what you were addressing. Does that include even resources that are obsolete?
Yeah, that IS cool!
Papyrus never obsoleted, but few manufactured resources were obsoleted very arbitrarily - I removed those obsoletions long ago.
And yes, that wonder gives all possible plants and animals - absolutely nothing is actually obsoleted except for Natron, though some stuff may simply lack their consumers at some poimt.
I beg to differ. Might have been before you were on the team but Papyrus definitely obsoleted. I recall complaining about it.
Agree. Whales also originally obsoleted but we changed them a different way. They lost all their and gained a few gold/commerce with the switch from meat and oil harvesting to tourism.
To be realistic the papyrus resource should not only go obsolete but it should also go extinct (in the "wild") like it has in Egypt here on Earth.
Yeah papyrus did obsolete at one time. But with a mod of this size, things get changed, but some are over looked, or a chain is redone, and before you know it you got whack a mole little bugs.
Papyrus has not gone extinct in the wild. It still grows in the Sudan, Ethiopia (seen it myself) and even in Southern Italy (Sicilia). Otherwise you should also have Donkeys, Camels and maybe others more go extinct.
I did not realize those were in Egypt!
Yes, but you said Papyrus should go extinct as it did in Egypt in the real world and I´d say it shouldn´t go extinct as it survived elsewhere.
But it has gone extinct in Egypt in the wild. Mostly due to the dam but also because there are more useful crops. Therefore if it is in a cultivated area it should be removed from the map.
I don´t think that this game works this way for any other resource. Why should it especially for Papyrus?
(IMO the resource more or less says that this piece of land is perfect for growing this resource. And that is still the case in Egypt, you could still grow Papyrus there. E.g. look at Prime Timbre, if that is cut away it is gone unless you let it grow again, thinking of the Cedars of Lebanon or most of the Redwoods in California.)
Yeah, and from that perspective this opens can of worms for future eras (what about all other resources?), not to mention that mammoths never obsolete too.
The standard I would propose on obsolescence of resources is not when they are truly gone from the world, but when they cease to be of much practical use. We have long since stopped using papyrus as a major tool for writing.
You could sell papyrus as novelty item or just sell it to less advanced civs when you are (inter)galactic civilization
Then again there is mammoth resource - it is map resource too.
And we don't even have mammoths unlike in C2C verse, where they got tamed or something.
Except in the proposed Extinction event (not Event). The only way to save them would be to have the wonder and they will only remain in that nation with that wonder and where the resource has been improved appropriately. Fortifications wont do.
If Hit Movies have to require Hollywood, fair enough - they are a luxury commodity like Ming pottery etc. But they are a prereq for cinemas, and that's just ridiculous. Brazil is exporting only one, so only two civs can watch movies?
It's easily fixed. The Movie Studio doesn't require Hollywood (iirc - certainly it shouldn't). If you have a Movie Studio, that should allow you to build cinemas.
How does WFL work? I had it turned on for human players, because I figured it'd only kick in if I fell behind, but it is out of whack. I got to Classical Lifestyle first, so it can't be tech diffusion. I was getting about 2000 science per turn from normal sources, and about 1000 from "TD and/or WFL". I had more cities, territory, and population than all but one known civ.
Unless that civ was larger in cities and population, you weren't getting any benefit from WFL. If you think you were, I wouldn't mind getting a save to evaluate to ensure that you aren't being compared against the barbs or something. I thought that was impossible though. What isn't impossible is perhaps the one you didn't know WAS larger by some 50% overall.
Tech diffusion also doesn't care if the other civs are ahead of you or behind you overall - it only cares if other known civs have the specific tech you are researching. If they do, you're getting a bonus to research when you're researching that tech.
I feel like they did have more cities and population than me. They were capturing many cities, even eliminating a civ this way. I can upload a save if you want, but I guess I'm just surprised the bonus is so large.
By the way, I posted about this rampaging civ in the strategy section, if you want to look at that. I figured WFL considered how you compared to all civs, not just bigger ones. Because I'm bigger than most, I figured I wouldn't get a bonus.
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