Yes, a lot of stuff was changed from back then.
This mod is under continuous development.
You can download V38.5 or get SVN for constant updates.
Caveman 2 Cosmos
- Thread starter strategyonly
- Start date
This mod is under continuous development.
You can download V38.5 or get SVN for constant updates.
There is indeed newer versions since 2014.
The latest official release is so old, and riddled with bugs, that I would recommend you to get the latest development build of C2C.
To get that you will have to install a program called "Tortoise SVN", here is a link to instructions on how to set up the download of the latest version of C2C from the SVN repository.
@pepper2000 @Thunderbrd @Dancing Hoskuld I found something very unusual:
There is SINGLE building that has IMPROVEMENT as requirement and this tag is working.
I think it would be useful for some projects.
Only Marina needs some sort of water related improvements.
There is <iMinAreaSize> tag, that dictates how many water tiles should be near city so buildings can be built too.
Other unusual tag is <iCitiesPrereq> and it is useful to restrict buildings from small empires.
So <iCitiesPrereq> of X in some building means, that you need at least X cities to build building.
There is SINGLE building that has IMPROVEMENT as requirement and this tag is working.
Code:
<BuildingInfo>
<!-- Marina -->
<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_MARINA</BuildingClass>
<Type>BUILDING_MARINA</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_MARINA</Description>
<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_MARINA_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
<Strategy>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_MARINA_STRATEGY</Strategy>
<Advisor>ADVISOR_GROWTH</Advisor>
<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BUILDING_MARINA</ArtDefineTag>
<ConstructSound>AS2D_BUILD_PORT</ConstructSound>
<iMinAreaSize>-1</iMinAreaSize>
<fVisibilityPriority>1</fVisibilityPriority>
<!-- Prerequisites -->
<MapCategoryTypes>
<MapCategoryType>MAPCATEGORY_EARTH</MapCategoryType>
</MapCategoryTypes>
<PrereqTech>TECH_ASTROLABE</PrereqTech>
<iPrereqPopulation>1</iPrereqPopulation>
<bWater>1</bWater>
<PrereqOrImprovement>
<PrereqImprovement>
<ImprovementType>IMPROVEMENT_FISHING_BOATS</ImprovementType>
<bPrereqImprovement>1</bPrereqImprovement>
</PrereqImprovement>
<PrereqImprovement>
<ImprovementType>IMPROVEMENT_WHALING_BOATS</ImprovementType>
<bPrereqImprovement>1</bPrereqImprovement>
</PrereqImprovement>
</PrereqOrImprovement>
...................................I think it would be useful for some projects.
Only Marina needs some sort of water related improvements.
There is <iMinAreaSize> tag, that dictates how many water tiles should be near city so buildings can be built too.
Other unusual tag is <iCitiesPrereq> and it is useful to restrict buildings from small empires.
So <iCitiesPrereq> of X in some building means, that you need at least X cities to build building.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
IIRC the farming Storage requires a farm in the vicinity too
<bPrereqImprovement> is used for Boatyard and Farm Supply too - that is those buildings use it, not just Marina after all.
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'm aware of these tags. What are you proposing?
I was just wondering if they could be useful in some stuff like property pseudobuildings or for Pepper's space stuff.
pepper2000
King
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 899
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I don't know off the top of my head how I would use it, but it may be useful.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Usually we end up using vicinity prereqs. It has its uses, yes.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
That is by design. If Slavery is active then you can't build factories. There is no economic imperative to do so. I should have implemented it so that if you build a factory you get slave revolts every turn until all your slaves are gone, but I don't know how to do that.
If you want to mod it so that you can build factories with slavery remove the file zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.XML from the folder Assets/Modules/Custom_World_Views/Slavery. You will need to do this every time you update C2C.
Update it again, as something went wrong - you should be able to build factories.
Or do cleanup.
So you can't make electricity, cars, tanks, aircraft, computers and so on when slavery is active.
AI is too dumb to trade resources it needs and to sell excess.
Sometimes you need to sacrifice realism for sanity of players and AI.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
It is their choice, they can have slaves or electricity. Seems an easy choice to me. There should be real choices in the game or what is the point in playing, otherwise it just becomes do the same thing over and over.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Slavery should be valid in all eras... maybe not optimal, but perfectly valid. I see no reason it wouldn't be and the argument that there wouldn't be factories if there were slaves is (and I say this with respect) absolute BS. It would just make factories cheaper to run and get more productivity out of the slaves you have is all it would do.
If we look at history, there are certainly examples of industrialized countries having slavery, but I don't think there is an example of a slaveholding civilization industrialising. At least for some time slavery must be gone, or there will be absolutely no incentive to build factories.
Just by looking at history, even science should take a hit. It should not come as a surprise that the massive increase in technology only started after slavery (and serfdom, which is pretty much slavery without slave markets) was gone. Labor must be fairly expensive to start thinking about labor-saving mechanisms, and there are more people who are allowed to get an education, which means that less prodigies are wasted doing menial work. In that sense, every step that is taken to give equal rights to more people should be a benefit to all kinds of commerce and to production. If an Albert Einstein had lived in medieval times, say, as a woman or a serf, we would simply have had an immensly smart person doing back-breaking labor all the day. The same is true for any other scientist, engineer, artist, or any other kind of "Great Person".
Simply put, in a "hyper-totalitarian" state where no one but the dictator is allowed to have good ideas, the nation has the skill-set of one person available, whereas in a free state, where everyone is basically on an equal footing (at least with respect to the law), the set of skills at the nation's disposal is much larger. Even if we disregard all ethics, here is perhaps the main advantage of a free country with equal rights for all.
There is another reason for Slavery combined with Industry: War. In a big war workers can become rare which would drive a country to innovation and industrialism even if there is slavery. In WW2 Germany deported hundred of thousands of people mostly from Eastern Europe and let them work more or less as slaves. It was an industrialized country anyway. In C2C slavery is a for a good part having prisoners of war work as slaves. I don´t see why this would stop in a totalitarian industrialized nation - or why this would stop factories from being built or utilized.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Forced prisoner labour is part of the next steps in the Captive/Prisoner of War development but it is different to slavery.
Are you trying to tell me i can have deer, bear riders....da vinci, steam tanks.......but i cant have my slave city? 
china strongly disagree 
btw still cant build factories with active slavery, tried to update svn again didnt help, tried to hold shift during start to clear cache didnt help
cant find cache folder manualy in windows 10, any other ideas or my last hope is delete whole civ and reinstal?
Edit: added save
china strongly disagree btw still cant build factories with active slavery, tried to update svn again didnt help, tried to hold shift during start to clear cache didnt help
cant find cache folder manualy in windows 10, any other ideas or my last hope is delete whole civ and reinstal?
Edit: added save
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Maybe you have mod twice installed - in BTS mods and in my documents BTS.Are you tyring to tell me i can have deer, bear riders....da vinci, steam tanks.......but i cant have my slave city?
btw still cant build factories with active slavery, tried to update svn again didnt help, tried to hold shift during start to clear cache didnt help
cant find cache folder manualy in windows 10, any other ideas or my last hope is delete whole civ and reinstal?
File is here: Beyond the Sword\Mods\Caveman2Cosmos\Assets\Modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery
zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos XML should look like this:
Code:
<!-- Severe penalties if slavery is active -->
<BuildingInfo>
<Type>BUILDING_STEEL_MILL</Type>
<AndDependencyTypes>
<DependencyType>BUILDING_STEEL_MILL</DependencyType>
</AndDependencyTypes>
<GlobalBuildingExtraCommerces>
<BuildingExtraCommerce>
<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_WV_SLAVERY</BuildingClass>
<CommerceType>COMMERCE_GOLD</CommerceType>
<iExtraCommerce>-20</iExtraCommerce>
</BuildingExtraCommerce>
</GlobalBuildingExtraCommerces>
</BuildingInfo>
<BuildingInfo>
<Type>BUILDING_FACTORY</Type>
<AndDependencyTypes>
<DependencyType>BUILDING_FACTORY</DependencyType>
</AndDependencyTypes>
<GlobalBuildingExtraCommerces>
<BuildingExtraCommerce>
<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_WV_SLAVERY</BuildingClass>
<CommerceType>COMMERCE_GOLD</CommerceType>
<iExtraCommerce>-100</iExtraCommerce>
</BuildingExtraCommerce>
</GlobalBuildingExtraCommerces>
</BuildingInfo>Upload save.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Agree. Furthermore, economics is all about getting things as cheap as you can. There is no point where something is 'too cheap' when you are in competition with other businesses to manufacture and provide a good to market as cheaply as possible. Human labor is not cheap usually even if we're talking slavery. You still have to feed, house, and maintain those people and people come with costs as a result. So even though slavery might be cheap'er' labor, it never hurts to make cheap'er' labor cheaper still. There would always have been the motive to industrialize whether you had slaves or not, and there dang sure isn't any reason to not care to obtain further goods for society just because you have slaves still.
Abolition may have spurned the need for factories, but I think it was just that it was happening at the same time as a social awakening to human rights and the realization that with our new industrialization technologies, we could enable people to have enough value that they could support themselves rather than having to rely on an owner to do it for them. Remember that slavery in a more recent sense came about primarily from people becoming too poor and incapable to provide wealth for themselves that they had to sell themselves into slavery to survive. As we now start moving into a great surge in automation and AI, we may well see people lose the value in their labor enough to be again incapable of supporting themselves and needing to resort to selling themselves back into slavery to survive again and at that point, even then their labor value may not be enough for the wealthy to consider it valuable enough to own them so people just start to starve or we are forced to rely on government to redistribute wealth.
I completely see how science and GP rates should be greatly diminished in a slaving society. The traits system somewhat reflects some of those insights where it can.
