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Caveman 2 Cosmos

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    I have the changes to the Slaves and Slavery buildings ready to go. What I haven't done yet is the increase in costs for factories etc if you are running Slavery. I have two options
    1. increase the cost for the buildings in a way that punishes large nations more than small nations, or
    2. does the same but is not dependent on nation size (number of cities)
     
  2. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    By cost, do you mean upkeep or diminished value or construction cost?
     
  3. tmv

    tmv Chieftain

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    I think larger nations would be less sensitive to foreign developments, at least until the Internet (less people being even near any border), so larger nations might even - at least in the real world - feel a bit less pressure.

    Then again, does the Russian Empire (one of the last European powers to have serfdom) confirm this hypothesis, or does the extremely violent end of the Russian Empire refute it? Would the long period of serfdom have been enough on its own to doom the Russian Empire, even without World War 1? And what kind of role did the immense size of that country (larger than the Soviet Union ever was, because of Poland and Finland) play in the downfall of the monarchy?
     
  4. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    I wa only thinking of construction costs. It is the only one that can be done so that it varies with or without slavery. The cost of one building can be affected by the existence of another. Unless I make a resource there is no way to adjust the value. There is no way to adjust maintenance costs at all as far as I can see.
    Has nothing to do with external anything only with the population. Almost everything in game is based on a bigger nation having it better than smaller nations. Sometimes economies of scale work that way sometimes social inertia work against it. This is about social inertia. Building labour saving buildings is a big threat when the people you are displacing are not citizens but slaves who are likely to revolt if they get the chance.

    Actually that brings up another idea I was thinking about and could possibly be applied along with this. Each building of a type you build reduces the cost of the next.

    We may think there is little difference between Slavery and Serfdom but there isn't. A modern example would be women getting the vote but not being able to get a loan or buy property without the guarantee/permission of her husband or father.
     
    tmv likes this.
  5. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    If global effects would help, you could take a look at the tag in effect on the Mound wonders that makes all of the Tumulii pick up an adjusted output.
     
  6. tmv

    tmv Chieftain

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    I think the main difference is that serfs aren't a trade good. This has some implications, since it means that they are much harder to replace (pretty much only by their own children). People also don't become serfs by losing a war. Their lord can still treat serfs like slaves in almost every aspect, but it becomes - aside from morality - usually a dumb choice.

    In Germany during the Middle Ages (until 1231/32 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutum_in_favorem_principum), if a serf managed to flee into a free city and lived there for a year and a day, he was free (for once the definite gender pronoun is correct, in that time it took a bit more for a woman to become free).
     
  7. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    Serfs have rights. Not many and as usual the powerful can't always be trusted to obey the law.
     
  8. BLubmuz

    BLubmuz HoF Quattromaster

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    Thank you and to razo, i used to be somehow familiar with SVN, but i'd prefer to download the mod as it is at the present, can you please provide me a working link? Thanks in advance.
     
  9. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    It is super easy to set up SVN though, download 64bit Tortoise SVN if you have a 64bit system or download 32bit Tortoise SVN if you don't know what system you have.
    Install it, standard install, just click yes/next/ok. (may need to restart computer before moving on to next step.)
    Create an empty folder anywhere, right click that folder and select SVN Checkout.
    When it asks you for the repository URL enter 'svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/caveman2cosmos/code/trunk'

    When the download is completed, you simply have to right click the folder again and do an export, do a standard export, to the empty folder named exactly Caveman2Cosmos, it should be located in "Beyond the Sword\Mods\Caveman2Cosmos".
    If you want to skip the export step, you could do the SVN Checkout step on the empty Cavemen2Cosmos folder in "Beyond the Sword\Mods\Caveman2Cosmos" instead.
     
  10. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    38.5 is a mess of major bugs that have been corrected since. It's really not worth playing.
     
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  11. BLubmuz

    BLubmuz HoF Quattromaster

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    Thanks. ok, i'll give a try to the SVN, thanks to Toffer90 for the details.
     
  12. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    @Dancing Hoskuld
    You got tag, that changes cost of building construction backward.

    Spoiler :

    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-05-30 08-41-28-84.jpg

    Code:
    <BuildingInfo>
                <Type>BUILDING_STREET_CLEANER</Type>
                <AndDependencyTypes>
                    <DependencyType>BUILDING_STREET_CLEANER</DependencyType>
                </AndDependencyTypes>
                <GlobalBuildingClassProductionModifiers>
                    <BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_SLAVERY</BuildingClassType>
                        <iProductionModifier>-50</iProductionModifier>
                    </BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                </GlobalBuildingClassProductionModifiers>
            </BuildingInfo>
    This is how it should be done.
    Spoiler :

    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-05-30 09-06-56-67.jpg

    Code:
    <BuildingInfo>
                <Type>BUILDING_WV_SLAVERY</Type>
                <AndDependencyTypes>
                    <DependencyType>BUILDING_WV_SLAVERY</DependencyType>
                </AndDependencyTypes>
                <GlobalBuildingClassProductionModifiers>
                    <BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_STREET_CLEANER</BuildingClassType>
                        <iProductionModifier>-50</iProductionModifier>
                    </BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                    <BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_TREADMILL_CRANE</BuildingClassType>
                        <iProductionModifier>-50</iProductionModifier>
                    </BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                    <BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_WATERMILL</BuildingClassType>
                        <iProductionModifier>-50</iProductionModifier>
                    </BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                    <BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_WINDMILL</BuildingClassType>
                        <iProductionModifier>-50</iProductionModifier>
                    </BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                    <BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_DONKEY_MILL</BuildingClassType>
                        <iProductionModifier>-50</iProductionModifier>
                    </BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                    <BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_LUMBERMILL</BuildingClassType>
                        <iProductionModifier>-50</iProductionModifier>
                    </BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                    <BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_MODERN_MILL</BuildingClassType>
                        <iProductionModifier>-50</iProductionModifier>
                    </BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                    <BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_OXEN_MILL</BuildingClassType>
                        <iProductionModifier>-50</iProductionModifier>
                    </BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                    <BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_STEEL_MILL</BuildingClassType>
                        <iProductionModifier>-50</iProductionModifier>
                    </BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                    <BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                        <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_FACTORY</BuildingClassType>
                        <iProductionModifier>-100</iProductionModifier>
                    </BuildingClassProductionModifier>
                </GlobalBuildingClassProductionModifiers>
            </BuildingInfo>
    Committing this change.

    It seems like you uh... forgot how to mod... or something.
    You should test every change you do - even make test buildings in separate file.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
    Thunderbrd likes this.
  13. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    I did test it. The pedia said I did it right as did the hover overs. However it looks like my dyslexia must have been running overtime and you are right about the where it should be

    but
    you have it on the wrong building it is supposed to be worse with the building that is in every city. Not the one building that is national in nature. Thus being much more costly for large nations with slavery than for small nations.

    BTW you have the and dependency wrong and the XML will crash if any of the buildings are moved. All buildings (or whatever) that are not in the module should be listed in the dependency which means there should be one record per building for this to be robust enough.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  14. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    If I had BUILDING_SLAVERY, then those things would be applied X amount of cities.
    In in screenshot above you can see, that this effect is global, so I tied it on national like building.

    For example 100% slower construction of Factory in ALL cities.

    Typical players have 10 - 50 cities, so smaller nations would have 10x that value and bigger ones would have 50x that value.
    With -50/-100 it takes 16/8 cities to make building cost like project.

    So effect would have to be smaller if you want BUILDING_SLAVERY to have this tag.
     
  15. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Chieftain

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    Great! I think this would be extremely useful for the software buildings like the algorithms or facial recognition software. Maybe raxo want to take on this?
     
  16. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I agree, 50/100% cost increase is too weak if only applied once, so each city owned should increase the cost in a cumulative manner. though 50/100% may be too powerful this way, perhaps 40/60% is better.
    It makes sense that a small nation with slavery would have more will to find ways to increase productiveness than large nations with slavery as they would like to stay competitive with those large nations.
    The larger the slave empire the more decadent and arrogant it becomes.
     
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  17. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    It needs a bit of play testing to get the value right.

    Also if you use Freight and other :hammers: caravans you can build the factory faster. This is because the modifiers are not put on the cost of the building but on the :hammers: you are producing when constructing the building. Or that is the way it works with bonuses. If a bonus gives 100% to the construction of a building it does it by doubling the number of :hammers: each turn. This takes into consideration the fact that you may lose or gain the resource during construction.

    The 50% boost to subsequent factories does not belong in the World View, so I will remove it when I make adjustments due to play testing.

    BTW notice that none of the follow on factories have been modified. This is because once your city has taken to the idea of factories there is no social inertia to more.
     
  18. VCrakeV

    VCrakeV Chieftain

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    What do freed slaves do? I'm wondering when I ought to abandon slavery, and I'd like to account for how I may benefit from freed slaves (specialist).
     
  19. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

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    There are no freed slaves (specialists), unless you are asking what happens to all your slave specialists (formerly captives) when you end slavery. If I remember correctly
    • entertainer specialist slaves become entertainers
    • medical specialist slaves become healers
    • food, production and commerce specialist slaves become merchants (I think, not sure)
    • military specialist slaves become recruits (I think)
    • non specialist slaves become 1 migrant per 3 slaves with left overs becoming workers.
    BTW I have not made the changes to how many migrants can move into a city based on the administration building. Intention to allow immigrants to join a city if
    • no building, pop<7
    • village hall, pop<14
    • town hall, pop <21
    • city hall, pop <28
    • metropolitian of capital, < 100
     
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  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I would almost suggest that rather than getting a 'freed slave' unit, they should straight be converted to population in whatever city they are already settled in. 1 slave specialist = 1/3 a population right? So for the last potential 2 remainder, sure, convert them to freed slave units. Either that or just give the settling capacity (bringing food) to the freed slaves and don't limit the population of the city they can join.
     

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