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Caveman 2 Cosmos

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Ok, I'm officially calling us in a freeze period. Urgent bug fixes, balance adjustments where truly needed and not too sweeping, and maintenance only for the next week or two.

    Who is going to package things for downloading this time around?

    I'll be working on revising and updating the Player's Guide so please comment on anything out of date there that needs to be reconsidered.

    Any other last minute considerations?
     
    TaylorItaly and KaTiON_PT like this.
  2. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    I guess I managed to correct some confusing issues with buildings in last minute :p

    So if I spot more errors in movies or help texts can I commit such fixes?
     
  3. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Anything that could introduce a bug or disagreement on review should probably be held off from here if you can just hold onto it until after release. But if something is obvious and really needs it and can be argued easily fits into:
    then fine.

    Let's just try this time, and I'm holding myself to this above all, to not be delving into fixes so deep that we create a major last minute upset that requires tons of work to correct. Things are pretty stable at the moment and we need to take advantage of that, which is the point of this freeze and release cycle. Then things can go back to business as usual.
     
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  4. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    @Thunderbrd ,

    I have a question about you and alberts2 conversation about Property control units. The current Define setting is for 2 Property Control units. But...the question...Is this for every Property (Crime, Disease, Education)? Or does it mean 2 units for all 3 properties? Which could lead to 1 or 2 properties getting no help.

    I'm hoping it's 2 for Each Property. Would raising it to 3 cause AI unit overload under current system if it is 2 for each?
     
  5. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Your Culture adjustments for Later bldgs. (Post Industrial Era) are all probably good things. BUT....reductions to Culture giving Buildings from Preh thru Classical Eras was probably No So Good a thing to do. You again changed the base for which Early (and in fact all) Civics work from. Granted as stated the Eras past Industrial, those Culture giving Buildings' reductions were actually needed. Early game not so much.
     
    TaylorItaly likes this.
  6. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Yeah, a 50% culture modifier from a prehistoric building that obsoletes within an era or two is a pretty weak building stat compared to a 10% culture boost from a late game building that doesn't obsolete.
    50% of 10 is +5 while 5% of 1000 is +50.
    The sweeping culture nerf raxo made recently annoyed me on this point, it flattens the mod just as much as it balanced it.
    Some thought should go into different building groups when making such a sweeping change, they may need different nerf treatment.

    My point is mostly that buildings that obsoletes early did not need to have their stat halved, while it was appropriate to halve the stat for most other buildings.

    Setting the Building+Bonus culture modifier down to 1% in all cases is probably good, unless a buildings main stat is the culture boost from having that bonus available (may be 1 or 2 buildings in the game that is like that).
     
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  7. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    Civics quickly get overpowered at certain stage of game when it comes to culture modifiers - you can see modifiers from various sources when hovering in city window.

    There is short window in Ancient and at most medieval era, where total :culture: modifiers from civics are similar to total modifiers from buildings.
    You can check that in city window.
     
  8. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Did you read Toffer's reply above yours? He states the obvious that you seem to over look or trivialize.

    I'm trying to still get the Early Civics adjusted and working better together. I have not made it to mid civic or even late civic changes in most categories. But yet you have 3 times now changed the early game basis that All civic at game start thru Classical have to work from. Do you Not see how this constant change is wreaking Havoc on my balance efforts in this particular area of the Game play?

    I have repeatedly said late game I have not touched. So any changes you make there are Not a factor for me to be concerned about Until I get there! So any changes you make in this area (pepper's modmod addition to the Mod) is irrelevant to my work.

    If you constantly change the base values for the early game then Civic adjustments are being constantly out dated by those changes. So what is the Point of me even trying to balance the early civics??? Do you Understand??
     
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  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Its for each. If we raise it that might be overkill since the pop growth control has been effective at reducing need a lot.
     
  10. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    I'm sorry but it has to be done.

    @Dancing Hoskuld and @Thunderbrd it seems like subdued animals text help is total mess.

    Spoiler :

    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-10 08-13-30-02.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-10 08-13-34-02.png Civ4BeyondSword 2019-06-10 08-16-56-07.png

    It needs reformatting - it should state only uncommon features, and shouldn't be split in new lines.

    I fixed all help TXT KEY errors in subdued animals though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  11. mkr1977

    mkr1977 Chieftain

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    The diplomatic elections have not worked in years.
     
  12. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    I think some of them may need minimum amount of players being active. Or somehow NPC split damaged them.
     
  13. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    They should still work IF your Victory condition is only Diplomacy. But If you use Mastery or Domination or Conquest then they usually don't.
     
  14. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    This sounds like bug somewhere.
     
  15. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Really? By whose decision?

    This will be the last I'll say about this. But you seem to have unlimited decision making approval.

    In the course of my testing and playing I will change Culture levels on buildings were needed, same for Production, food and other areas like Property Control. Especially early game. Late game is a Non factor to me for sometime yet. So I have No objections to you hacking and slashing in that timeframe of the Game. In fact I encourage you to focus there. :)
     
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  16. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Old old bug if it actually is one. The decision making a long time ago on some of the Victory conditions, around the time when Mastery Victory was included, precipitated many of these type changes. Documentation was non existent back then for the most part.
     
  17. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Warlord

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    Thunderbrd approved slashing culture modifiers.

    Buildings with culture modifiers tend to not obsolete for very long time.
    Also if you looked at modifier sources in city you would see that culture usually had by far highest modifiers from buildings+resources.

    @Anq @alberts2 and @Thunderbrd can look what is going on here.
     
  18. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    In my save, AP was built, I don't think there was ever an election, the builder got - and kept - control of it, and several resolutions were voted on.
    The Congress of Vienna was built, but it was never heard from again (no votes at all).
    The UN was built, I am Sec Gen, elections and resolution votes appear to be as normal. The last few resolution votes have been reported as "Fails - 0 votes", even though I voted for them, but I've seen that before, and for now assume it is standard in the case of a veto.

    I have Mastery Victory enabled. I probably left all the others ticked as well, if that matters.
     
  19. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    A problem was identified that there was far too much culture output later in the game. I knew this would lead to a quick and dirty slashing but at the moment I feel that's more warranted than waiting for an in-depth evaluation process that would be more appropriate in the end. There are some other things I expect to change at some point about what's possible to assign buildings where commerces and yields and such are concerned so I'm not TOO worried about perfecting details at the moment because the truly fine-toothed comb now may be a bit much.

    That said, I also understand where you and Toffer are coming from on this and would just urge that these kinds of adjustments be charted and considered with some care when they are done. However, again, there will be a time in the future for that sort of evaluation. And in the meantime, where you find need to adjust certain details as you go with the projects you're working on, I'm more than happy to support you with that as well. Thus, I back you when you say:
    If in the course of modding someone does something specific that is disagreed with, on specific buildings or at specific points, we should bring up those specifics wherever possible. Even if they are just an example of more.

    I know there's been some issues with this but I'm not really sure how that whole system works - it's quite complicated - and it's one of those 'I didn't mess with it and I don't know how it SHOULD be' systems. I don't think the NPC split did much to it as something was off about it in a lot of cases before that. I suppose at some point it'll be something to make a project out of.
     
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  20. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    @Thunderbrd,
    When was Culture removed from Monasteries and Temples for All Religions? I have done nothing with these....Yet.

    Cathedrals have so many Hoops to jump thru that slashing their Culture by 80% was Overboard to say the least. But I only doubled the last change for most of them. So they are now ~ 30-35% of what they were Originally before the recent Slash and Burn.

    These slash to the early game are in most cases Non factors to the Late game Culture Glut. The Late Game Culture Glut is/was a direct result of pepper2000 modmod inclusion. Exponentially adding Culture and other Modifiers %s just like Hydro used to do. And these Hydro and Mr Azure templates were probably pepper2000's models to work from. Looking at their structuring indicates this is so. So yes the Late game has/had problems with glut. It is inherent to the models used.

    So all the regular buildings in the early game that were slashed have been upped a bit. Some (few) to previous levels but most to an intermediate level somewhere reasonable between original and slash values. Almost All these buildings Obsolete Before the Atomic Era.
     

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