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Caveman 2 Cosmos

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    Research and production rates have to be analyzed separately. They could be in the right proportion to one another, and still be wrong. Your production rates on Long are about right (if not slightly fast). I'm guessing your research rates, in the spirit of compromise, are still 25-50% too slow.

    As for Nomadic Start, well let's just say that too must be kept separate.

    You don't have to start lower to ramp up for longer. You can instead ramp up slower.

    I really hope this is not still about not treading on toes. Like this agenda-driven trashing of civics doesn't throw everyone else's work out of balance.
     
  2. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Most likely due to a lot of crime autobuildings being present due to high crime. You usually need to get on top of crime levels before you can start expecting investigations to be successful, which is part of the barb of the whole thing.
     
  3. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    So we restarted the game tonight and the first buildings, without getting a super good start productionwise, just fairly average, were about each half of what it took to get to the next tech. That really did strike the right balance. Moving forward from there, the whole rest of the tree is progressing very nicely. In fact, I have to say this is the most enjoyable game I've had in ages. The spreading out we did of the various units really gives every sub-era of unit usage a much more prominent period and it's just wonderful and I'm feeling the civics design works out great. It was really just those first techs. They are a little longer than the rest of the techs in the era still but it varies a lot and it's not so profound that you notice it as much. You have the option of going after both buildings or getting some units out there instead if you don't go for one of the buildings and that there is a choice, which is the point that we were missing. I didn't feel I HAD to go for language right away because it wasn't quite as crucial to avoid wasting production to beeline right out the gate to be able to get the research process.

    So that pretty much did the trick in my book. Still don't think that cave dwellings is competing well with the other two for a potential best first pic but maybe if there's caves in the vicinity it might be.

    Further observations:
    @KaTiON_PT :

    1) Tracking should simply be named Trails. It was in the very beginning, pre-C2C, and the way the tree is now arranged with Persistence Hunting coming afterwards, and scouts coming up then, it would fit better as Trails (and trails are unlocked at that tech too.)
    2) That then allows 'Hunting' to be renamed to Tracking, since trackers come up then so it well fits.
    3) That then allows the term Tactics to be dropped from Hunting Tactics and voilla, Hunters are unlocked at Hunting.
    4) @Dancing Hoskuld Perhaps? It doesn't look like we have a Master Chaser but boy do we need one now. We used to have one a long time ago but Chasers were so quickly obsoleted that it wasn't worth it. But now Chasers have a very long era.
    5)Wanderers shouldn't obsolete with Chasers coming into play if that can be avoided - they are still the only scouting unit that can get improved results from goody huts for a long time.
    6)Elephant herds are possible to place with Elephants probably a lot earlier than they should be I think, given that you can't even get a pig herd until some of the animal taming techs later. A review of these herd generation tech unlocks might be in order for aligning things so that they at least make sense to an underlying set of assumable rules the player can rely on as some standards of expectations.
     
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  4. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    5) breaks games where you don't have Unlimited National Units on. National units must obsolete when the new unit comes along. The alternative is to have two units definitions for each national unit one for normal play and another for when the Unlimited National Units option is on

    6) Indian or African elephants? In theory there should be one herd for each type of unit.
    The herd placing is based on both when terrains can be modified with tools ie not through slash and burn and when improvements can be built on that terrain. This means that iron working is needed to build a herd with pasture on forest or jungle.
     
  5. tmv

    tmv Emperor

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    The Wanderer doesn't seem to be limited. iMaxPlayerInstances is at -1 (in the SVN version).
     
  6. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Chasers aren't replacements for Wanderers because wanderers are both a hunter and recon unit, though they technically are a recon that can attack. The game isn't ready to have you lose access to being able to train a unit that doesn't get bad results from goodies because the next level of recon isn't yet introduced.
    Not sure why there should be. They fulfill the same role as a domesticated elephant creature. I'm talking about the herd building, not an improvement.
     
  7. ssmage

    ssmage Warlord

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    I was reading the last few pages, and my thoughts on this start of game tech slowness: Palace is 12 commerce. It's lowered to 6 via civics at start. You can lose a beaker a turn straight away from Edu penalties on the higher diffs (maybe deity/nightmare only?), and can also lose science from traits, you can also gain some from traits.

    Teching language straight away wont help you straight away from the edu penalty hole, and the fact that getting animal subdues is never constant, (might get high str spawns, it's bad terrain all around, the pool of animals in your area is tiny) It can lead to just being unable tech for any decent pace for 100+ turns.

    Getting Oral or a bunch of subdues is when teching starts coming a reasonable feeling pace. I think the problem here is that early teching can be RNG/ or you've taken bad traits and now the game hates you for the really early game. And if rushing Oral is 100% the early game tech path, something is wrong here if you've designed it to be more open.
     
  8. alberts2

    alberts2 Emperor

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    I'am going to play CivVI for a while the last updates really improved it and they even added a free battle royale Mode
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  9. billw2015

    billw2015 King

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    Holy **** is that an April fools joke video?
     
  10. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Emperor

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    Nope! Free gamemode for base CIV 6 owners. :lol:
     
  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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  12. alberts2

    alberts2 Emperor

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    That's how it started but they actually added it in the september update.
     
  13. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    Ok not a bug. Used ctrl-Z (it's not my city) to find 93% insidiousness from crime autobuilds alone. City has crime above 3000, and the owner AI doesn't seem to care.

    So investigation is not cumulative between all LEs present (just as insidiousness thankfully isn't - there are 7 criminals there, all getting that bonus)? So an individual LE would need more than 30% investigation to have any chance of success? Is that right?
     
  14. fil7er

    fil7er Chieftain

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    Before release v40, make a installer. This help to make new players test this mod
     
  15. billw2015

    billw2015 King

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    Its on the list of things to do, but it won't be done for v40, there isn't enough time. It isn't something that needs to be done for a specific release anyway, once we make one we can repackage the existing releases to use it.
     
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  16. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    The investigation check is calculated from:
    1) Full amount of the LE unit with the highest current Investigation value
    2) +10% of the cumulative investigation amounts of all remaining units with investigation present
    3) +Investigation amount from buildings in the city (including player modifiers)
    4) - The city's amount of Insidiousness (including player modifiers)
    5) - The criminal who's being investigated's natural Insidiousness

    The resulting Investigation amount is either multiplied by .1 or .01 (can't recall offhand) and this becomes the % chance of a successful investigation check. One is made every round against each local criminal, even your own, and the primary LE unit involved in the check gets XP for doing it, as does the criminal for attempting to avoid being investigated.
     
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  17. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    Is it just me or are Military Captives pretty much worthless now (I'm talking about post-slavery)? 72 bread might be 0.1% (1/1000) of a pop growth for a typical city. As for production, a size 50 city gets 1000 hammers. Typical industrial buildings eg. factories cost 3-6 times that. I have to confess I haven't been in Industrial for quite a while, so I don't know how much production towards buildings a size 50 city has in that era. Which is quite important since the most important metric of the captive is how many turns he shaves off. Perhaps someone will contribute that datum. I can vaguely remember back to Modern, and since then the captive's contribution has been less than a turn. Now in early Nanotech, cities regularly have 10000+ hammers towards buildings, while rarely (10%ish) being size 50+ (on Deity).

    The main contributing factors are that captives were nerfed to balance them with cities, when city growth was out of control. Then city growth was nerfed, so I suggest captives need rebalancing once again. I hope the bread amount can also be increased, although it may never be worthwhile in any but the smallest cities.
     
  18. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    They are supposed to only be worthwhile in small cities.
     
  19. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    How many small cities actually exist in that era though? Not making an argument, just a point of consideration.
     
  20. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    By that era slavery should be over as a state run thing. Serfdom should be over also and indentured servitude on the way out. At that point they should be almost entirely about diplomacy on the world stage. They should be Prisoners of War not Captives.
     

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