Caveman 2 Cosmos

[Toffer90]

top left bar still overflows.

First off, you are showcasing a totally artificial scenario where you have added hundreds of millions to your treasury in worldbuilder.
If you had achieved that amount without using the worldbuidler the value showed in the top left corner would have been:
240M 877334 - 9921134

I think I'll change it so that when you have 1 million or more gold, then only the million part will be shown followed by a e.g 401 K,
So the amount shown in your screenshot would then become be:
240M 877K - 9921134
I might even change it so that it would show like this:
240M 877K - 9M 21K
Then, if you want to know how many hundreds you have above the millions and thousands you will have to move the mouse cursor over the treasury chest to see a detailed treasury content.

 

[raxo2222]

First off, you are showcasing a totally artificial scenario where you have added hundreds of millions to your treasury in worldbuilder.
If you had achieved that amount without using the worldbuidler the value showed in the top left corner would have been:
240M 877334 - 9921134

I think I'll change it so that when you have 1 million or more gold, then only the million part will be shown followed by a e.g 401 K,
So the amount shown in your screenshot would then become be:
240M 877K - 9921134
I might even change it so that it would show like this:
240M 877K - 9M 21K
Then, if you want to know how many hundreds you have above the millions and thousands you will have to move the mouse cursor over the treasury chest to see a detailed treasury content.

I didn't edit that value with World Builder.
Looks like converter breaks when hurrying extremely expensive stuff or when you have income/expenses much larger than 1000 000 gold
I have negative income now because I reduced earth city sizes with drafting.

 

[Toffer90]

I didn't edit that value with World Builder.
Looks like converter breaks when hurrying extremely expensive stuff or when you have income much larger than 1000 000 gold

Oh, ok, I'll reformulate, without that extremely game-breaking bug, you would never have achieved those numbers. ^^
TB will have to look at that dll bug.

 

[raxo2222]

Oh, ok, I'll reformulate, without that extremely game-breaking bug, you would never have achieved those numbers. ^^
TB will have to look at that dll bug.

-9M income subtracts only 3M income from treasury.
I have -40M money unconverted now
And 197M in form of Megagold.
Lets see what happens if it crashes to 0.

 

[JosEPh_II]

-9M income subtracts only 3M income from treasury.
I have -40M money unconverted now
And 197M in form of Megagold.
Lets see what happens if it crashes to 0.

Why do you keep using a broken Save game?

 

[raxo2222]

Why do you keep using a broken Save game?

To see how long it can last until it is completely unusable and as stress test for game.
Also you can click on civic and selection will stay and you can see all effects of civic, if it had long list of effects.

Now I have 133 Megagold and -150 milion gold.
Making new engame savegame would take me two months on old settings unless I picked Blitz, Standard and Noble, then it would be two weeks or so.

Edit: it seems like I'm getting various events every 5 turns now or so as I wait for save to self destruct (46 Greater gold and -331 million of gold).
Was event spawning adjusted/fixed somewhere?
I remember that they were rare as snow on Sahara when I was doing space playtrough.
Also turn processing feels faster - it takes minute to process turn on my endgame savegame.

My save isn't in pristine condition, as I disabled revolution in quarter way of game or so, set inflation modifier to -700% in halfway of game because I rushed industrial revolution, and disabled global unhealthiness/unhappiness from properties and crime spreading from technoanarhists now due to lack of property control in space.
Also treasury normalized itself after running out of greater gold.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think it is no longer a case of all boats or none. I'll have to check and I may be wrong but I think we have the ability to build the earliest work boat in lake only cities. I think it was an experiment which turned out to work but was not then implemented fully.

Whisperr was trying to look into the xml last night and couldn't see a solution here. Do you know why the canoe can go into a lake and a workboat can't?

 

[Toffer90]

Whisperr was trying to look into the xml last night and couldn't see a solution here. Do you know why the canoe can go into a lake and a workboat can't?

This is probably the cause:
The unitInfo tag <bPrereqBonuses>1</bPrereqBonuses> that is used for all workboats require the water area the city is connected to to have bonuses in them.

    if (kUnit.isPrereqBonuses())
    {
        if (kUnit.getDomainType() == DOMAIN_SEA)
        {
            bool bValid = false;

            for (iI = 0; iI < NUM_DIRECTION_TYPES; ++iI)
            {
                CvPlot* pLoopPlot = plotDirection(getX_INLINE(), getY_INLINE(), ((DirectionTypes)iI));

                if (pLoopPlot != NULL)
                {
                    if (pLoopPlot->isWater())
                    {
                        if (pLoopPlot->area()->getNumTotalBonuses() > 0)
                        {
                            bValid = true;
                            break;
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
            if (!bValid)
            {
                return false;
            }
        }

So a lake with no bonuses will not enable a city to train workboats.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Do naval units have any kind of early blitz promotion, like hunters do with Hunter 4? I know that Blitz itself is unlocked a Military Science, in the Industrial era.

Yes, After you upgrade them to Combat III. Once you promote to Combat III Blitz is then revealed.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Do naval units have any kind of early blitz promotion, like hunters do with Hunter 4? I know that Blitz itself is unlocked a Military Science, in the Industrial era.

I am reviewing all hunting stuff now. Ships with hunting promotions will be able to get a blitz attack but will have the same malus against non-animal units that hunters get. When "true" hunting ships become available at Com Whaling, those ships with the hunting promotion will be able to upgrade to them or loose their hunting promotions to be replaced by others.

I like how you can pay gold to upgrade subdued animals to military units.
Maybe subdued animals should ungraded only to animal related units?

They always have been. They can upgrade to any unit that is in the upgrade chain. It just depends on what tech you have. Since, in the US of A cavalry upgrades to helicopters a subdued horse can upgrade to them also. Almost every other country had their cavalry upgrade to light tank.

 

[Thunderbrd]

This is probably the cause:
The unitInfo tag <bPrereqBonuses>1</bPrereqBonuses> that is used for all workboats require the water area the city is connected to to have bonuses in them.

    if (kUnit.isPrereqBonuses())
    {
        if (kUnit.getDomainType() == DOMAIN_SEA)
        {
            bool bValid = false;

            for (iI = 0; iI < NUM_DIRECTION_TYPES; ++iI)
            {
                CvPlot* pLoopPlot = plotDirection(getX_INLINE(), getY_INLINE(), ((DirectionTypes)iI));

                if (pLoopPlot != NULL)
                {
                    if (pLoopPlot->isWater())
                    {
                        if (pLoopPlot->area()->getNumTotalBonuses() > 0)
                        {
                            bValid = true;
                            break;
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
            if (!bValid)
            { 
                return false;
            }
        }

So a lake with no bonuses will not enable a city to train workboats.

This really shouldn't be necessary for workboats now since they do have other builds. Still... I THINK her case also had a bonus on the lake but I am not 100% sure. I will check.

 

[Niveras]

Yes, After you upgrade them to Combat III. Once you promote to Combat III Blitz is then revealed.

You may have misunderstood me, as what you said doesn't seem to be the case. I created a duel world, gave myself all techs up to (but excluding) industrial era, and a combat boat (trireme) with 1000 experience. After buying combat 3, Blitz was not yet available.

This is because, as I mentioned, Blitz itself is unlocked at Military Science in the Industrial era. I was specifically wondering whether there existed a source of Blitz for naval units earlier than that.

 

[JosEPh_II]

You may have misunderstood me, as what you said doesn't seem to be the case. I created a duel world, gave myself all techs up to (but excluding) industrial era, and a combat boat (trireme) with 1000 experience. After buying combat 3, Blitz was not yet available.

This is because, as I mentioned, Blitz itself is unlocked at Military Science in the Industrial era. I was specifically wondering whether there existed a source of Blitz for naval units earlier than that.

Yes. I thought you were talking about Modern ie non wooden ships. AFAIK wooden ships do not get blitz nor steam ships either. What threw me off was you saying you had achieved Military Science Tech.

Blitz for wooden ships or even steamships would be way to OP. I know we have a ton of Promotions but that would be going a bit far.

 

[Niveras]

It's no worries. I was finding it annoying exploring the oceans because the animals. They are almost always one per tile, and worse around coasts where birds can leave land. So dense that despite the high movement of my ships they can only move a few tiles per turn, since they can only attack one animal per turn.

Land animals have this problem a little too, but this is alleviated by Hunter IV (available to normal hunters after Hunter 3 + Forestry 3) and Master Hunter allowing multiple attacks per turn.

That said, I do not suggest any changes to the animal spawn rates. I will just create "fleets" that explore together instead of only one per direction I wanted to explore.

(Per the Pedia, wood and steam ships are permitted to take blitz, but I don't know the upgrade paths to say whether they are replaced by only modern ships by the time Military Science is researched.)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It's no worries. I was finding it annoying exploring the oceans because the animals. They are almost always one per tile, and worse around coasts where birds can leave land. So dense that despite the high movement of my ships they can only move a few tiles per turn, since they can only attack one animal per turn.

Land animals have this problem a little too, but this is alleviated by Hunter IV (available to normal hunters after Hunter 3 + Forestry 3) and Master Hunter allowing multiple attacks per turn.

That said, I do not suggest any changes to the animal spawn rates. I will just create "fleets" that explore together instead of only one per direction I wanted to explore.

(Per the Pedia, wood and steam ships are permitted to take blitz, but I don't know the upgrade paths to say whether they are replaced by only modern ships by the time Military Science is researched.)

I am looking at two changes to do with ships

1. As your ships get better they wont "see" lesser sea critters so in the modern era you will be able to travel the full distance with your ships.
   
   
2. "sea hunter" ships and promotions to let some ships see the sea critters and attack them. These "sea hunters" will get blitz early but wont be good at fighting other ships.

 

[hrudey]

It's no worries. I was finding it annoying exploring the oceans because the animals. They are almost always one per tile, and worse around coasts where birds can leave land. So dense that despite the high movement of my ships they can only move a few tiles per turn, since they can only attack one animal per turn.

You should be able to use the Stay the Hand status and simply move through the animals for the most part.

 

[JosEPh_II]

It's not hard to send your ships out in pairs or triples and not have this annoyance. If one considers this to be an annoyance.

Question do you play with Peace Among NPC On? If so turn it Off. You will have less animals on both land and sea to have to deal with.

EDIT: And if you are using SM take hrudey's advice from his post above mine.

 

[Thunderbrd]

EDIT: And if you are using SM take hrudey's advice from his post above mine.

Stay the hand isn't related to SM.

You should be able to use the Stay the Hand status and simply move through the animals for the most part.

ONLY if those animals cannot attack non-specific type targets. AKA, dangerous animals are still dangerous, just means you aren't attacking them. And if you see a dangerous animal you can't move onto the tile so you get stuck there (if you have StH on.)

 

[Thunderbrd]

It's no worries. I was finding it annoying exploring the oceans because the animals. They are almost always one per tile, and worse around coasts where birds can leave land. So dense that despite the high movement of my ships they can only move a few tiles per turn, since they can only attack one animal per turn.

Land animals have this problem a little too, but this is alleviated by Hunter IV (available to normal hunters after Hunter 3 + Forestry 3) and Master Hunter allowing multiple attacks per turn.

That said, I do not suggest any changes to the animal spawn rates. I will just create "fleets" that explore together instead of only one per direction I wanted to explore.

(Per the Pedia, wood and steam ships are permitted to take blitz, but I don't know the upgrade paths to say whether they are replaced by only modern ships by the time Military Science is researched.)

Sounds like a LOT of spawns though. It shouldn't be THAT bad.

 

[Niveras]

You should be able to use the Stay the Hand status and simply move through the animals for the most part.

It's not hard to send your ships out in pairs or triples and not have this annoyance. If one considers this to be an annoyance.

Question do you play with Peace Among NPC On? If so turn it Off. You will have less animals on both land and sea to have to deal with.

EDIT: And if you are using SM take hrudey's advice from his post above mine.

I've never seen Stay the Hand on a ship, I assumed it was only available to units that are stealth or can assassinate. But I don't often use HN pirate ships so maybe they can do that. (I do play with whatever the option is to allow stealth strikes, so missing that is not limiting my available units.) I do use this a bit with exiles for early land exploration, as they can move with impunity due to Stay the Hand, won't get attacked by animals due to their stealth, and have that -1 Terrain Cost Modifier by default, letting them move 2 tiles - with Quick March - across nearly all terrain every turn. (QM doesn't negate stealth, or maybe it is Forced March, whichever one adds only +1 movement instead of +2.)

I do use Peace Among NPCs, which would explain why there are so many sea critters. I assume the sea critters would not only attach each other but keep birds clear from coasts, given most birds are very low strength. It is likely this option is the major cause for my annoyance.

Sounds like a LOT of spawns though. It shouldn't be THAT bad.

As mentioned, it is likely playing with the PAN game option on is why I feel sea animal populations are high.

DH's ideas of being able to move through weak critters, and of having sea animal hunting ships (presumably akin to hunters) with early blitz but weak against everything else, would certainly help as well. Even just the latter would be fine - increase the "non-animal" penalty on the sea hunting line and adding blitz to Sea Hunter IV would be a quick solution.