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Caveman 2 Cosmos

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. alberts2

    alberts2 Emperor

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    The AI chooses the wrong units see https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/something-odd-is-going-on.629200/
     
  2. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    While that is infrequently true at the moment, it's still better than the problems we WERE having. It may well be impeding growth but I'm about to post a new DLL that may help with this and at least shouldn't be able to make things any worse. Some testing would be good to ensure it's making better decisions.

    EDIT: Was going to do this now but I've gotta make sure I compile in your last changes into the dll build so that'll take me till later this afternoon since I've got stuff I gotta go do now.
     
  3. Harrier

    Harrier Deity

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    Modders come and go and then sometimes come back. It is after all a hobby and real life intervenes.
     
    Osk21 likes this.
  4. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I know, I asked how close my obserwations were to reality for that time period.
    Since no one else corrected me I guess my obserwations are pretty spot on.
     
  5. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    Maybe Joe is pissed cuz you did not mention him? He really did a great job for balancing the mod!
     
  6. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    He mentioned me 1st.

    Unit and building build times are too long in almost all cases now. But the Research rate is blamed ( Techs coming too fast complaint). So the research formula has been changed several times now. And none of it is working right. Until Unit and building build times are corrected research will be a mess.
     
  7. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    I recently downloaded it as well and noticed rapid research coming in, especially on Normal speed. Sometimes 10 or 12 techs in 1 turn. ;(
     
  8. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Yeah, I also think normal speed is way too fast atm. should ideally be around 1-2 turns per tech.

    I would like to increase base tech cost by "a lot!" and reduce the increase in tech speed per gamespeed to match the increase in building and unit cost per gamespeed.

    Normal gamespeed doesn't increase the cost of anything, but if we look at the other end of the spectrum (eternity) one can see that research cost is increased 20 fold while building and unit cost is only increased 8.25 fold. So normal speed has a way too low research cost, and the slower the gamespeed you choose the more reasonable the research cost becomes.

    I would increase the global base tech cost from 150% to 300% and change all tech cost modifiers from gamespeed to match the building and unit cost modifiers in gamespeed.
    I'm hesitant at making these changes because I always get a ****storm every time I do anything related to tech cost and gamespeed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I had a feeling this was an issue. That it was working pretty well on the settings I was testing but on other settings the math change skews things a lot more because of all that weight on the gamespeed being so severe.

    I agree with this assessment personally. We've got to get the ratio between production and research into at least a close comparison and then we can work more with the global to adjust the overall rate for all scaling situations.
     
  10. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    And you don't think it's deserved? Really? You've already played loose and fast with it and now have players *itching at what you did. But that's Okay no harm to the Mod cause It's how you do things.

    I've got 2 posts I was going to put here in response to this mess you 2 have created and are perpetuating. But I erased them both. You wouldn't listen to me any way.

    So have at it Toffer, Run Forest Run. Tear it up. Maybe you will eventually figure it out or that maybe you didn't have such a great idea after all. It's yours now to "fix" you win. I lose. But I really hope the Mod doesn't. But so far.....it's not looking good what you 2 have already done.
     
  11. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    What values for these you suggest?
    Those are current cost globals.
    Code:
        <Define>
            <DefineName>UNIT_PRODUCTION_PERCENT</DefineName>
            <iDefineIntVal>90</iDefineIntVal>
        </Define>
        <Define>
            <DefineName>BUILDING_PRODUCTION_PERCENT</DefineName>
            <iDefineIntVal>90</iDefineIntVal>
        </Define>
        <Define>
            <DefineName>UNIT_PRODUCTION_PERCENT_SM</DefineName>
            <iDefineIntVal>80</iDefineIntVal>
        </Define>
        <Define>
            <DefineName>PROJECT_PRODUCTION_PERCENT</DefineName>
            <iDefineIntVal>90</iDefineIntVal>
        </Define>
        <Define>
            <DefineName>TECH_COST_MODIFIER</DefineName>
            <iDefineIntVal>150</iDefineIntVal>
        </Define>
    
    So what values would be good? 60, 60, 50, 60 and 150?
    Or even lower values? More conservative values would be good?
     
  12. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    It doesn't matter any more Raxo....it just does not matter. Caveman2Cosmos has reached a tipping point.
     
  13. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    No, it's no harm because it's easily reverted, nothing to make a fuzz about. I wouldn't say that what I recently did was playing loose and fast, I though there was consensus that map size should not have a major impact on tech cost.
     
  14. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Balance is currently upside down, inside out, right side on left, and front side on back, when these two guys fly passenger plane as it was military plane :mwaha:
    Production costs can be cut in half for now.
    After situation stabilizes production global costs can be raised gently.

    I did simulation for cost changes of Saddler and its unlocking tech in middle of February.
    Spoiler :


    Lets see how situation changed:
    Normal/Settler/Duel:
    Nomadic Lifestyle - 3:science:
    Animal Riding - 39:science:/Saddler - 36:hammers:
    Future Tech - 730 000:science:

    Normal/Noble/Standard:
    Nomadic Lifestyle - 7:science:
    Animal Riding - 78:science:/Saddler - 45:hammers:
    Future Tech - 1 440 000:science:

    Eternity/Nightmare/Gigantic:
    Nomadic Lifestyle - 378:science:
    Animal Riding - 4212:science:/Saddler - 558:hammers:
    Future Tech - 77 760 000:science:
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
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  15. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    We're in the process of unbreaking what we broke before that you had to fix last time. You had it dialed in previous to that erroneous math that you said would be a problem and were right about. I'm sure we can get it back dialed in to something similar. There are some other considerations to make, however, like the fact that mapsize shouldn't have such a dramatic impact on the end result as it did, and that there is too great a difference between the scaling ratea of production and research taking place in gamespeed. Conceptually, I think you can understand that, right?
     
  16. Tajo

    Tajo Warlord

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    Oh crap... it is that badlly off?? Oh well off to wait for patch again.
     
  17. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I tried once to make all gamespeeds scale hammer and tech cost equally, but Joe meant it was absolutely imperative that tech cost increase more than hammer cost when slowing down gamespeed.
    I think Joe would get pissed if we changed it now, so @Tajo, you will have to wait a long time.
     
  18. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Rats! I am a couple of days behind on the updates but the research to build speeds are good again on Snail. It is fun to play again rather than a drudge.

    The only problem is I selected the "More XP to level" option to see what it is like so I now need 3 times the number of units to keep crime and disease under control because they are not starting with enough XP:lol:
     
  19. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    According to my XML file all math was done correctly in my XML file.
    No idea about beelinestings though.
     

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  20. Whisperr

    Whisperr Warlord

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    So here you are saying removing the tech cost modifier from the map is the right way to go, and now you are complaining because they are trying to work out the right way to do it through Tech cost modifiers.
     

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