CBob01 AWM Training Day Game

[Phaedo]

I tend to favour an infrastructure GA. If the Aztecs have muskets now, we may be looking at infantry by the time we get a decent force over. The infrastructure will help us forever. Having said that, a swarm of cossacks can do a lot of damage.

Basically I'm easy. I think both options are good. I think our decesion will be more of what kind of game we want to play. Do we want to shuffle 1 cossack and 1 cannon to the beta continent or wait until we get caravels? We won't be able to move armies until galleons. I think waiting is safer but a galley transfer would be more challenging and perhaps more fun

 

[Norton II]

I'm not that worried about the Aztecs anymore. Sure, they've got all those wonders, but they're only a little ahead of us in tech (say, three mandatory techs at most, two is more likely), and our GA might take care of that. We've got a continent to ourselves, while they haven't taken care of the Romans or the Arabs yet. If we use our GA for infrastructure (especially universities), we can get to magnetism faster and mount a larger and more effective invasion. Also, I doubt we'll face anything worse than riflemen--remember that the AI always goes for nationalism and the government techs at the start of the IA.
Now, as for suicide galleys, I see two possible passages. One of them is in the south, where it looks like a galley could cross in two turns, three at most:

The other is up north, through American territory, which is how the Aztecs got over to us:

Keep in mind that we still need to contact the Romans and Arabs so that we can be at war with them, too. Also, if we map out the coast of the other continent now, we'll have a better idea of where to invade.

 

[Phaedo]

I was thinking about it and if we want to go for the fastest win possible, we could use a quick GA to build empty armies that could be transported and loaded up over there. We would need a ton of galleys.

 

[Aabraxan]

I like the idea of using the GA to build up our infrastructure. Once that's done, cossacks won't take that long to build, anyway, especially if we've got a strong economy and can rush some of the builds.

@Phaedo -- As far as building empty armies, a few considerations come to mind: (1) we can't build the MA until MT, so we'll have access to our UU at the same time; (2) once we get the MA, we'll still only be able to build armies in one city, so we need plans for what to do with our other cities; (3) even our best city won't be able to produce more than, what, 1 or 2 armies during the GA . . . IOW, to take best advantage of that plan, we'd need one city building armies and the others building cossacks to fill them. That runs against the "infrastructure GA," doesn't it?

Edit: And @ Norton II: well done!

 

[Phaedo]

@Aabra: Correct on all counts, my thoughts were in reference to an ASAP win which would go for unit building rather than infrastructure. Not that we are going to do it but if we did we could help rush the army by disbanding units that woudl be replaced by cossacks. We are in a rather similar situation to the phaedo01 game although we are behind a bit more in tech.

 

[CivActuary]

I am not sure we would be able to mount an effective invasion of the beta continent with only galleys. I would tend to favor finishing off the Aztecs, Germans and Babs on Exile Island with our existing forces, and then triggering the GA against the Yanks, then catch up in infrastructure.

Good turns, Norton. I must say that screenie with an all brown continent was extremely pretty.

 

[CommandoBob]

If we use our GA to build mostly/all infrastructure (which seems to be the consensus), we still need to decide when.

Broadly speaking, we still have three choices:

• Someone on Exile Island (Germany, Babylon or Aztecs)
• The Americans
• Someone past the Americans (Aztecs, Rome or Arabia)

And the Grand Prize winner is....

 

[Norton II]

@Aabra and CA: Thanks! It was really just mop-up, though. I have a feeling the rest of the game will be mop-up in a way, as long as we don't screw up royally.

@Phaedo: The only trouble with a galley invasion is that a fair number of the galleys would sink, possibly including some that are carrying armies. That would be a lot of wasted shields and turns. If our galleys find a sea passage up north (the Aztecs did, so they probably will), we can invade with caravels. Alternatively, we could wait one tech for galleons and hit Tenochtitlan first.

@CommandoBob: I vote for using the Americans to launch our GA upon discovering Education. That'll let us get some universities up quickly, get to the IA sooner (possibly even overtaking the Aztecs), and finish the Military Academy in Mosaic Moscow a bit faster. Speaking of which, it might be a good idea to get MM up to 16 shields per turn (normal production, not GA) if we can. That would be one Cossack (and later one artillery) every 5 turns. 20 spt would be even better, of course, but I don't think we can manage that until MM reaches size 12.

 

[CommandoBob]

Roster:

• Phaedo - warming up
• CivActuary
• Norton II - just played
• D'Artagnan59 (MIA since last turn in the rotation)
• Aabraxan -UP! (Turnset 25)
• CommandoBob - on deck

 

[Aabraxan]

Wow. . . I'm up again. And I missed it again. Sorry about that. I'm also up in Aabra01, but I'll take a look and see if I can wrangle both games to get them played in time. I think I can.

Looking at Norton's screenshots, we're 1 turn from Military Tradition. Do we have a group decision on where we're headed next, tech-wise? And do we have a consensus on whether we're going to go ahead and research Education? I think we should. I don't think the GLib is going to be that much help to us in this game. I certainly don't think it will be as much help as galleons.

 

[Norton II]

Only one way to go, really--theology->education->astronomy->physics->magnetism. Maybe ToG instead if we want to line up a prebuild for Newton's, but I doubt we really need it. Also, we ought to switch the HE to the MA once we get MT (and I've made my quota of acronyms for the day ).

 

[CommandoBob]

We would really need The Great Library if

• we are research poor
• we are tech backward
• we are militarily tech backward

Well, we are not research poor. We've done pretty well with just libraries and the occasional geek.
We are behind some techs.
We are not behind in military tech (or won't be after the next turn).

We do need better sea vessels, so that means we need to get to astronomy fairly quickly for better boats.

The Wrinkle
We might want to get the GL if the Arabs and the Romans appear to be greatly ahead of us in tech. But we have to meet them first. I don't think they will ahead of us by much, but I'm basing this on the lack of Wonder building by them.

Since the GL only gives the owner a new tech when two other civs know that tech, well, if they (Arabs and Romans) aint smart, it aint worth it. And if we can't get units in place to capture the GL in a safe and timely manner, it is not worth the risk.

We will capture the Great Library, but not anytime soon, and long after we learn Education.

 

[CommandoBob]

@Aabraxan: in your write up, can you

• give us a rough idea of how long it will take to get to Astronomy and Magnetism?
• estimate upgrade costs of our catapults and trebuchets to cannons?
• estimate upgrade cost of our vHorses to Cossacks?

I don't think we have enough gold to upgrade everything and we don't have Leonardo's Workshop to help with the cost.

While it is tempting to take a breather and gather our forces for the next great push, I think we need to clean up Exile Island and force our way past the Americans. Even with galleys we can be deadly.

 

[Aabraxan]

Just some thoughts on my upcoming turnset:

1) I think it's time to make contact, regardless of what's going on on our side of the pond. The cities on Exile Island seem to be no threat, so I think the information to be gained by making contact outweighs any risk associated with declaring on somebody new. Thus, unless I hear strong objections, I'm going to try to get a galley over to the other continent.

2) If there's any question on the Arab's and Roman's tech status and how it impacts our GLib plans, I'll tentatively plan on stopping and posting. If we appear to be close to parity, I'm going to head for better boats.

3) It looks like a galley could get through the northern passage in one turn if it has full movement, so that's my intended crossing.

4) Do I see 8 mined mountains near the souther passage? That scares me a little because the AI is usually so bad at improving terrain.

 

[Aabraxan]

I've got it.

@Cbob -- I didn't see your post earlier, but yes, I'll try to estimate time to Astro and Magnets, as well as upgrade costs. Won't be tonight, though.

 

[Aabraxan]

Pre-flight estimates:

Technology:
Mil Trad in 1 turn.
Generating 215 bpt @ 50%
Astronomy:
Requires:
Theology -- 912
Education -- 1173
Astronomy -- 1493
Total: 3578
17 turns to Astronomy

Magnetism:
Add another
Physics -- 1706
Magnetism -- 1813
Total: 3519
So another 17 turns at the current research rate.

Upgrades:
Caveat: I'm not sure I'm right on these calculations. I think the exchange rate is 3 gold per shield difference, but I don't really know.
Horsemen to Cossacks: 16 horses * 3 gold * 60 shield difference = 2880 gold
Cats to Cannons: 21 cats * 3 gold * 20 shields = 1260 gold
Trebs to Cannons: 25 trebs * 3 gold * 10 shields = 750

 

[Aabraxan]

Cbob01-1300AD+
Preflight Assessment:

Cities: 59

Military:
1 Settler
91 Workers
4 Warriors ?!?
1 Archer
11 Spearmen
8 Swordsmen
16 Horsemen
23 Pikemen
21 catapults
2 cannons
6 galleys
4 Armies
29 Maces
25 Trebuchets

Production:
2 Aqueducts
4 Cannons
7 Courthouses
4 Galleys
5 Harbors
1 Heroic Epic
2 Horsemen
1 Library
6 Markets
17 Settlers
1 Warrior
2 Wealth
7 Workers

Expected on the IBT:
Military Tradition will be discovered
1 cannon & 1 courthouse will complete

Technology:
Mil Trad in 1 turn.
Generating 215 bpt @ 50%
Astronomy:
Requires:
Theology -- 912
Education -- 1173
Astronomy -- 1493
Total: 3578
17 turns to Astronomy

Magnetism:
Add another
Physics -- 1706
Magnetism -- 1813
Total: 3519
So another 17 turns at the current research rate.


And Away we go:

Turn 0
Look around. My, my . . . this truly is a lovely brown continent.
Otherwise, Norton has left me little, if anything, to fiddle with before hitting enter.
American galley sails by Heidelburg. (Pet Peeve: I wish they'd spell that right.)

IBT
Learn MT -- Begin Theology (4t @ 60% & +69 gpt)
Iron Hill: (Dunno) --> Cossack (7)
Anywhere: Courthouse --> library (6)

Turn 1: 1305
Lots of worker shuffling.
Move galley into N. Hilton to prepare invasion.
Load MI and Pike into galley

IBT:
Shuffling about
Savignon Samara: Courthouse--> Cossack 15


Turn 2: 1310
Drop off Pike and MI outside Sippar
Fumble-finger and a settler by Whaletown ends up on a galley.

IBT:
Berlin: Worker--> worker (10) This one's at size 3, all Germans, so I make some tax

collectors and continue starvation.
Leipzig: worker-->worker (10). This one's still in resistance
Rowdy Rostov: dunno--> cossack (12)
Bremen: settler--> wealth (I really didn't know about this one. The city's 58% corrupt, and

a courthouse would take it to 41%, but it would take 80 turns.)
Staraya Russa: Warrior --> galley (30)(It's right on the edge of a foggy area that needs

'sploring.)


Turn 3: 1315
Switch Mosaic Moscow from the Heroic Epic to Military Academy -- Due in 14.


IBT
Vladimir: Settler--> worker (10)(growth is in 10, too)
Yakutsk: harbor --> cossack (7)
Murmur: cannon-->cannon (5)

Turn 4: 1320
Drop off 2 more MI on Exile Island
Found Novgorod

IBT
Learn Theo, begin Educ
Frankfurt: worker-->worker (10)
Philadelphia is struck by disease
Uruk: worker-->wealth
Samarra: worker-->worker (10)
JellyBank: Market -->Cossack (9)


Turn 5: 1325
continue moving galleys into position for run to other continent
Begin upgrading remaining 4 warriors to MI
Attack & capture Sippar

Begin Harbor in Sippar
Hire a geek in Hattusha to prevent a riot.


IBT
Babylon: worker -->worker (10)
Ashur: settler -->settler (30)
Philly: settler-->worker (10)(got to clear that jungle . . . disease struck again)
Hattusha: library --> mace (7)
Nippur: worker -->worker (5)

Turn 6: 1330
Drop 3 trebs & 1 eSword on Exile Island
Notice that Eulbar is building a cossack 73 turns out. Switch to a settler (13)
I consider hurrying a galley at Magnitigorsk. It will only cost 88 gold right now, but I

want to finish the Germans before getting us into any more wars. One more turn in this won't

matter.


IBT
Babylon: worker --> cannon (40)
Berlin: worker -->cannon (40)
Tyrana hits its pop limit --> It's 1 turn from a courthouse and only 53% corrupt. Order to

finish cthouse and begin aque (34)
Anywhere: Library-->mace (6)


Turn 7:
Move units closer to Stuttgart, continue improving terrain.


IBT:
Iron Hill: cossack --> Heroic Epic (15, but this can be changed)
H&S: Aque: MI (5)


Turn 8: 1340
Bombard Stuttgart
Move eMace in and kill spear

Hold off attacking. I move Peter the Great into the nearest town. At the beginning of the

next turn, I'll build an army with him & leave it empty. Then I'll try to hunt another

leader.
Move single units into Koenigsberg and Seattle. They're still resisting, but with very low

numbers.

IBT
Americans request an audience. I see no point.
SSPete: cannon-->cannon(8)
Chicago: settler -->settler (30)
Murmur: cannon --> cossack (9)
American galley comes into view.
Add landscaping to the palace.

Turn 9: 1345
Bombard Stuttgart
Due to less than optimal planning on my part, I wind up having to attack Stuttgart with an

eSword. Kill the pike, but sword is redlined.
Attack remaining defender with elite* mace.
Capture Stuttgart.

Found Rostov

IBT
Learn Education, take Astronomy in 5 at +18
The temple of Artemis is now obsolete!
Civil Disorder erupts at Hattusha and Hattusas.

Akkad: settler -->cannon (40)
NewHorseTown: marketplace -->mace (7)
Add another wing to the palace

Turn 10
Examine lux slider
In Hattusas and Hattusha, I hire a clown. I figure 2 clowns is better than 10% on the lux.
There's a goodie hut on Exile Island. Unfortunately, our troops near it are redlined. I

leave it for the next player.
Move a settler into position about 3 tiles SW of Berlin. He's ready to plant.
There's a galley underway at Magnitogorks. Rush it if you'd like. I decided to kill off the

Americans and Germans.
Found New Stuttgart. Set to wealth.

Notes for Next:
We have an army on Exile Island waiting to be taken somewhere and loaded with cossacks.
We have several cossacks that we could load.
The Yanks are dead on Exile Island, but I don't think they're dead. They've got something somewhere.
There's a goody hut on Exile Island that nobody has popped.
And I have not triggered our GA.

 

[Norton II]

Not bad at all. Looks like our research has caught up to the Aztecs--they're only up republic and chivalry. Now that we have education, it might be good to rush a couple of galleys in the northeast, load them up with cossacks, and attack the Americans. Alternatively, we could get some cossacks over to Exile Island and hit the Aztecs. I'm starting to wonder whether we'll even need universities, though--since we're at tech parity with the Aztecs and likely to get the lead during our GA with or without unis, maybe we should just build up cossacks instead while beelining for magnetism.

 

[CommandoBob]

So, it looks like I get a boring set of turns, thanks to the wild killing spree we've had over the last sets of turns.

The only Industrial Age tech that would help us would be Steam Power for the rails and faster movement. Our new troops could get to the front line (or at least to the boats) much, much faster.

I'll try to get a look at the save by Saturday.

 

[Phaedo]

I agree with Norton and Cbob. If we are at tech parity now, I suppose we should forget infrastructure, hold off on the GA until we know where we are going against the other continent, and use it to pump out cossacks eh?