Dinamo
Chieftain
The AI will never agree to any gpt deal if you're running defficit.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
CBob04 Achtung Panzer!
- Thread starter CommandoBob
- Start date
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Oh, yeah, that could be our problem.
Good catch, Dinamo.
I'll check that out once I get home.
lurker's comment:
I think you need both an embassy and to not be running a deficit. I also think that you can turn the slider down so that it shows a positive gpt flow, make the deal, then turn it up and run a deficit, though.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
Thanks! I'm pretty sure that this is the problem.
Correct. You can even go further: except for turning down the slider, also change all (and I mean all) citizens to taxmen. This way you can fake a very high gpt income. This can be useful if you are in the position to buy and sell an expensive tech but do not make enough gpt. You first fake the high gpt, buy the tech, and then sell it and get your gpt back, and then set all citizens back to work again.
darski
Regent in Training
This is interesting. I have gone the other way when I wanted someone in an MA. I would run up the science slider so I didn't have to pay tons of money for the Alliance.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Dinamo was right. Our negative gpt was preventing any per turn deals.
Drop science to 50% from 100%, now +16 gpt; Republic in 14 turns, not 7.
Vikings will MA for:
7 gpt
OR lump sum of 111 gold.
Iroquois will MA:
for Wines and 8 gpt
OR Wines and lump sum of 132 gold
OR lump sum of 272
OR 16 gpt.
When we discuss renegotating peace the price drops.
Peace, MA, Wines and 3 gpt
OR peace, MA, Wines and lump sum of 40 gold
OR peace, MA and lump sum of 180 gold
OR peace, MA and 10 gpt.
I think that the MA with the Vikings is best bought with a lump sum. They are closer to the Mongols than we are, so they should recieve a lot of Mongol attention. That will keep them fighting.
I think we need to keep feeding stuff to the Iroquois to keep them fighting.
Drop science to 50% from 100%, now +16 gpt; Republic in 14 turns, not 7.
Vikings will MA for:
7 gpt
OR lump sum of 111 gold.
Iroquois will MA:
for Wines and 8 gpt
OR Wines and lump sum of 132 gold
OR lump sum of 272
OR 16 gpt.
When we discuss renegotating peace the price drops.
Peace, MA, Wines and 3 gpt
OR peace, MA, Wines and lump sum of 40 gold
OR peace, MA and lump sum of 180 gold
OR peace, MA and 10 gpt.
I think that the MA with the Vikings is best bought with a lump sum. They are closer to the Mongols than we are, so they should recieve a lot of Mongol attention. That will keep them fighting.
I think we need to keep feeding stuff to the Iroquois to keep them fighting.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Lump sum for the Vikings to ally, gpt and Wines for the Iroquois, that should keep them fighting. The downside...involving the fragile Vikings might just strengthen the Mongols.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
5 - Part II 0450 BC
Drop Science down to 50%, Republic in 14 instead of 7, +16 gpt.
We bribe the Vikings with 111 gold to MA vs. Mongols.
Scandanavia DoW Mongols.
Scandanavia Trading 450 BC
We talk to Iroquois.
We offer Peace, Wines and 3 gpt for an MA vs. Mongols.
Iroquois DoW Mongols.
Iroquois Trading 450 BC
International Relations 450 BC
We raise science back to 100%, Republic in 7, -13 gpt, with 613 gold in the bank.
[IBT]
Well, surprise, surprise; the invading Mongols units leave.
Konigsberg catapult -> aqueduct in 17.
Frankfurt catapult -> catapult in 7.
Heidelburg rGalley (Deutschland) -> harbor in 6.
Palace Expansion.
Updated Palace
6 0430 BC
Deutschland sails from Heidelburg, clockwise around the continent, to remap the Iroquois coastline and later to sail West around the world (or die trying).
We begin to irrigate the grass NW of Konigsberg.
Wounded Sword that took out the Mongol that pillaged the Iron near Frankfurt is sent to Hannover to heal.
Worker begins road to connect Bremen.
A quick way to guage the progress of the Mongol war is by city counts.
In 470 BC the numbers looked like this in MapStat:
Current city count, in 430 BC:
[IBT]
Leipzig vSword -> vSword in 4.
Munich worker -> library in 20.
7 0410 BC
I am sending one catapult to Cologne, which is our city closest to the Mongols. Cologne has 3 Swords and 2 Warriors. It should be able to defend itself from any Mongol incursions. Any new units will head to Hannover.
[IBT]
2 Mongol victories seen, one Viking Warrior is dead, another probable Viking unit is killed near Copenhagen.
8 0390 BC
Worker 2NE of Hamburg begins a forest road, finish in 6.
We send a Sword next to Copenhagen to serve as an observer.
[IBT]
We watch Copenhagen defend itself, then we are asked to leave. We agree.
Berlin vSword -> vSword in 3.
Cologne vSword -> vSword in 5.
9 0370 BC
We move workers onto the Iron hill that the Mongols pillaged.
Minor Skirmish
vSword in Viking territory vs. rArcher 2/3, Archer wins (2 of 4).
[IBT]
We see some Iroquois people move in the general direction of the Mongols.
Hamburg vSword -> vSword in 8.
Nuremberg library -> harbor in 5.
10 0350 BC
We begin to reconnect our pillaged Iron.
[IBT]
Drop Science down to 50%, Republic in 14 instead of 7, +16 gpt.
We bribe the Vikings with 111 gold to MA vs. Mongols.
Scandanavia DoW Mongols.
Scandanavia Trading 450 BC
Spoiler :
We talk to Iroquois.
We offer Peace, Wines and 3 gpt for an MA vs. Mongols.
Iroquois DoW Mongols.
Iroquois Trading 450 BC
Spoiler :
International Relations 450 BC
Spoiler :
We raise science back to 100%, Republic in 7, -13 gpt, with 613 gold in the bank.
Well, surprise, surprise; the invading Mongols units leave.
Konigsberg catapult -> aqueduct in 17.
Frankfurt catapult -> catapult in 7.
Heidelburg rGalley (Deutschland) -> harbor in 6.
Palace Expansion.
Updated Palace
Spoiler :
6 0430 BC
Deutschland sails from Heidelburg, clockwise around the continent, to remap the Iroquois coastline and later to sail West around the world (or die trying).
We begin to irrigate the grass NW of Konigsberg.
Wounded Sword that took out the Mongol that pillaged the Iron near Frankfurt is sent to Hannover to heal.
Worker begins road to connect Bremen.
A quick way to guage the progress of the Mongol war is by city counts.
In 470 BC the numbers looked like this in MapStat:
- Germany: 10
- Scandanavia: 7
- Iroquois: 9
- Mongols: 10
Current city count, in 430 BC:
- Germany: 11
- Scandanavia: 7
- Iroquois: 10
- Mongols:
Leipzig vSword -> vSword in 4.
Munich worker -> library in 20.
7 0410 BC
I am sending one catapult to Cologne, which is our city closest to the Mongols. Cologne has 3 Swords and 2 Warriors. It should be able to defend itself from any Mongol incursions. Any new units will head to Hannover.
2 Mongol victories seen, one Viking Warrior is dead, another probable Viking unit is killed near Copenhagen.
8 0390 BC
Worker 2NE of Hamburg begins a forest road, finish in 6.
We send a Sword next to Copenhagen to serve as an observer.
We watch Copenhagen defend itself, then we are asked to leave. We agree.
Berlin vSword -> vSword in 3.
Cologne vSword -> vSword in 5.
9 0370 BC
We move workers onto the Iron hill that the Mongols pillaged.
Minor Skirmish
vSword in Viking territory vs. rArcher 2/3, Archer wins (2 of 4).
We see some Iroquois people move in the general direction of the Mongols.
Hamburg vSword -> vSword in 8.
Nuremberg library -> harbor in 5.
10 0350 BC
We begin to reconnect our pillaged Iron.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
The Mongol war has been rather boring.
There is a Mongol Archer near Cologne that should die next turn. I moved a catapult and three Swords next to it this turn. It will heal on the IBT and be at full health next turn. It is the only Mongol unit we can attack, unless we go on the attack.
We have 43 military units. Our free support is 44.
We learn Republic in 2 turns; -14 gpt.
Once we learn Republic we will need to revolt right away. We'll take a hit for a few turns on unit support, maybe as much as 70 gold per turn for a while. We have warriors we can disband, which will help some, saving us 2 gold per turn in upkeep. Leipzig will be size 7 and Berlin hits size 7 in just four turns. Colonge and Hamburg are at size 5 and don't need aqueducts to grow. Frankfurt, Konigsberg, Heidelburg and Nuremburg are all at size 4. Konigsberg needs an aqueduct to grow and is building it now. The others have their own source of fresh water. Munich and Bremen have flood plains for fast growth but both will need aqueducts.
We have a Warrior on its way to Bremen to swap places with the Sword and allow the Sword to be part of the Iroquois war.
We have two workers in two adjacent tiles building roads to connect Konigsberg and Munich with a coastal roadway.
We have 15 turns to go before we have war with the Iroqouis. The Deutschland will need to be outside of Iroquois waters at that time. If that means risking a turn at sea, then take the risk. Otherwise we take a rep hit for having units inside Iroqouis borders when we go to war.
The Iroquois have not started on The Statue of Zeus, even though they have Mathematics, the needed tech.
We need two workers around Cologne to replace the two the Mongols slaughtered. One BG is mined and needs a road; the other is undeveloped.
There is a Mongol Archer near Cologne that should die next turn. I moved a catapult and three Swords next to it this turn. It will heal on the IBT and be at full health next turn. It is the only Mongol unit we can attack, unless we go on the attack.
We have 43 military units. Our free support is 44.
We learn Republic in 2 turns; -14 gpt.
Once we learn Republic we will need to revolt right away. We'll take a hit for a few turns on unit support, maybe as much as 70 gold per turn for a while. We have warriors we can disband, which will help some, saving us 2 gold per turn in upkeep. Leipzig will be size 7 and Berlin hits size 7 in just four turns. Colonge and Hamburg are at size 5 and don't need aqueducts to grow. Frankfurt, Konigsberg, Heidelburg and Nuremburg are all at size 4. Konigsberg needs an aqueduct to grow and is building it now. The others have their own source of fresh water. Munich and Bremen have flood plains for fast growth but both will need aqueducts.
We have a Warrior on its way to Bremen to swap places with the Sword and allow the Sword to be part of the Iroquois war.
We have two workers in two adjacent tiles building roads to connect Konigsberg and Munich with a coastal roadway.
We have 15 turns to go before we have war with the Iroqouis. The Deutschland will need to be outside of Iroquois waters at that time. If that means risking a turn at sea, then take the risk. Otherwise we take a rep hit for having units inside Iroqouis borders when we go to war.
The Iroquois have not started on The Statue of Zeus, even though they have Mathematics, the needed tech.
We need two workers around Cologne to replace the two the Mongols slaughtered. One BG is mined and needs a road; the other is undeveloped.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
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ThinkTank
RL Addict
Looking good! I have 2 concerns.
1:
I agree with revolting ASAP but we are at war right now, so revolting right away may be too soon. I'd like to time the revolt with respect to our military builds. I mean, it is sort of ineffective to start a revolution 1 turn before 4 sword builds complete.
2: The risk right now is that the Mongols will only get stronger by the current war because the Vikings are too weak and the Iroquois too far away. I think this means that we need to engage a small "corrective" force to the north, say 5 swords and 4 cats or so.
1:
I agree with revolting ASAP but we are at war right now, so revolting right away may be too soon. I'd like to time the revolt with respect to our military builds. I mean, it is sort of ineffective to start a revolution 1 turn before 4 sword builds complete.
2: The risk right now is that the Mongols will only get stronger by the current war because the Vikings are too weak and the Iroquois too far away. I think this means that we need to engage a small "corrective" force to the north, say 5 swords and 4 cats or so.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Mongol Expeditionary Force
Around Cologne we have 3 swords and 1 catapult. We have 2 warriors inside Cologne that we could upgrade to Swords. The next Swords from Berlin and Leipzig could head to Cologne also.
We have three catapults in Hannover. They are several turns from Cologne, with maybe a river or two on the way.
Maybe 5 Swords and 1 catapult?
Around Cologne we have 3 swords and 1 catapult. We have 2 warriors inside Cologne that we could upgrade to Swords. The next Swords from Berlin and Leipzig could head to Cologne also.
We have three catapults in Hannover. They are several turns from Cologne, with maybe a river or two on the way.
Maybe 5 Swords and 1 catapult?
TheOverseer714
Overseer
1 catapult won't do it anyway, so I would wait until the rest get there. I'll look at the save tomorrow and begin play.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Stop the presses, folks, I have an emergency! A good one, though. When Republic arrived, we got an SGL! I am stopping play so we may discuss what to do with him. Pretty much all the AA wonders are available, so we pretty much get our pick of the litter. In an ordinary game, the Pyramids are a no-brainer for an SGL. In this game, I'm not totally convinced that free granaries are that big of a deal, but then again, the Pyramids never expire. I still lean toward that wonder, myself. I think a decision of this magnitude needs discussed before it gets acted on.
darski
Regent in Training
lurker's comment: Oooh. nice one! I would vote (if I had a vote) for the pointy piles of sand but they have always been a fave of mine.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
None of the Ancient Wonders really help us that much, not for what we want to do.
Now, Sun Tzu's Art of War, Leonardo's Workshop, or Theory of Evolution could be big helps later in the game.
I think for now the best thing to do is place our SGL in Berlin under protective custody.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
The variant determines we're not going to have many cities (restricts usefulness of Sun Tzu and Pyramids) nor have a very large army until the panzers (resticts usefulness of Leo's). ToE we can get 95% of the time with a timed prebuild and proper trading and/or self research.
We want the few cities we will have to be big as soon as possible. The Pyramids helps with this. So I think I vote Pyramids.
We want the few cities we will have to be big as soon as possible. The Pyramids helps with this. So I think I vote Pyramids.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I'm not totally sure of how SGLs work, does it prevent getting military great leaders? Also, I know keeping one does prevent getting other SGLs, and we might get more later. It also costs unit support, 1 unit hanging around doing nothing for 1500 years seems like a bad idea. I think I want to use it soon and hope for another later. So Pyramids, Sun Tzu's, or Leonardo's? We have 1 vote for Pyramids for sure. I'm leaning that way too. There's also the revolt, how soon? I am okay with revolting soon, but we are at war and we have many units that would cost us a fortune, not to mention needing some lux spending. Revolt, and disband all warriors? This turn or wait several more? We can get Currency in 8 turns without a revolt at current spending levels, which should give us our next era tech free. I always wait too long to revolt, so maybe I will recuse myself here.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
SGL
I tend to avoid building the AA Wonders, since so many of them have expiration dates. I know I don't have Wonder Addiction, but I do have a fairly serious case of Wonder Aversion (I hope!).
If we have to pay upkeep on our SGL and if he prevent us from getting a second one; well, I did not consider that in my earlier post. I wouldn't mind paying upkeep for a while, but if we don't have a chance to get SGL2 while SGL1 is alive, then, let's use SGL1.
Pyramids look to be the best Wonder for our needs. It gives us a city improvment that we mostly lack and it does not expire.
Republic
On revolting, I'm not sure when the best time will be. We do have a lot of units, so maybe we should wait until we have more cities at size 5 or 6. I'm okay with revolting when we start to learn a new tech, but that would place the revolt just before or during the Iroquois war.
I'm getting the impression that we might want to wait until we get our borders settled, and our cities larger, before we become a Republic. Would that be too long?
I tend to avoid building the AA Wonders, since so many of them have expiration dates. I know I don't have Wonder Addiction, but I do have a fairly serious case of Wonder Aversion (I hope!).
If we have to pay upkeep on our SGL and if he prevent us from getting a second one; well, I did not consider that in my earlier post. I wouldn't mind paying upkeep for a while, but if we don't have a chance to get SGL2 while SGL1 is alive, then, let's use SGL1.
Pyramids look to be the best Wonder for our needs. It gives us a city improvment that we mostly lack and it does not expire.
Republic
On revolting, I'm not sure when the best time will be. We do have a lot of units, so maybe we should wait until we have more cities at size 5 or 6. I'm okay with revolting when we start to learn a new tech, but that would place the revolt just before or during the Iroquois war.
I'm getting the impression that we might want to wait until we get our borders settled, and our cities larger, before we become a Republic. Would that be too long?
TheOverseer714
Overseer
The rule of thumb is the bigger the empire, the longer the anarchy, capping at 9 turns. If we wait much longer, we might draw a longer anarchy. I will play that by ear then. I will build the Pyramids with Copernicus, which might also get us bigger cities faster, easing the unit support problem. The warriors will still need to go, no matter what. We need one more town to build the FP, so where is a good spot? Both for the town and the FP.
