CBob04 Achtung Panzer!

[Elephantium]

...and I don't feel like I have a lot to add at this point; I really need to open the save and poke around for a while. That won't happen until Thursday or Friday this week, though (curse you, Real Life!).

 

[TheOverseer714]

When we are ready to go, the reputation becomes less of a problem. Having said that, I'd prefer to not do any RoP raping to win even faster, let us kick their butts the regular way, with a panzer army's boot up their heinies. I think with all the advantages we already have, we wouldn't want things too easy.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I wasn't thinking of RoP rape. More early bailing on alliances and engaging the AI in wars with each other.

my PC time at home is limited by my mother-in-law's sleep patterns (She likes to sleep in the room with my PC, but not all the time and sometimes not even all night.)

my sympathies. That's right up there on the nightmare list. Glad I have a laptop.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I wasn't thinking of RoP rape. More early bailing on alliances and engaging the AI in wars with each other.

Good, I think deliberate RoP rape is one of the AIs worst traits and I try to not need such a dastardly tactic. The rest, no major problem. We should get some wars going there now, those AIs are way too chummy.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

IIRC, I've never done a RoP violation, even on a solo. I need to look at the save again and will do so within 72 hours, but I think Hammy is our best friend until the railnet is up as are panzers. Without looking at the save, I suggest disbanding the 2 active armies in Berlin to speed US when we can finish it in one turn.

Did we ever do anything with Barbarossa the MGL?

Too lazy to go back to the rules page, but, as a challenge for all of us, I think we should focus on finishing in 100 turns. Remind me which VC are allowed, but I think domination or conquest is very doable within 100 turns.

Did I mention I'm rusty, old, and psychotic?

In-laws are in town tomorrow, so I'll post more psycho ramblings on thursday.

Regards,

AK

 

[TheOverseer714]

I think I'd save the armies to be loaded with our first 8 panzers, US is not such a great wonder, the lux slider can do better. I think 100 turns will be doable, maybe set a 20 turn timetable to destroy each overseas enemy civ in turn, and 20 turns to take our continental enemies.

 

[CommandoBob]

Got a boat with workers to move and need to guard our colony from errant settlers.

0 (Preflight) 1250 AD

Wake slaves and clean pollution around Berlin.
Wake Musket in Nuremburg and he guards the slaves from the Mongol Longbow.
Wake workers near Liepzig. They are standing on an unworked tile. They road from Liepzig to Berlin.
Wake slaves on the hill S-SW of Cologne. They road the forest south of Cologne (3 turns).
Wake the galleon in the red waters and sail for East Germany.

Increase science to 30%, Refining in 13, not 41, +12 gpt.
​

[IBT]
Hamburg colosseum -> vInfantry in 3.
Lots of happy people; we expand our palace; we add some sphinxes.

1 1255 AD

Road from Berlin to Nuremburg.
Road the Wines around Berlin (now at 52 shields per turn).

Shop around Electricity.
Sell Electricity to Babylon for WM, 80 gpt and 23 of 23 gold.
Sell Electricity to Arabs for 67 gpt and 137 of 137 gold.
Sell Electricity to Egypt for Horses, 96 gpt and 1 of 1 gold.
Sell Electricity to America for 6 gpt and 21 of 21 gold.

It will take us 20 turns to rail and get ready for war, so we don't hurt ourselves with these trades.

Now at +259 gpt; increase science to 60%, +7 gpt, Refining in 6.
​

[IBT]
Babylon wants to talk. Now what? An MPP with Hammurabi the Red? No.

Munich vInfantry -> rGalleon in 5.
Pollution at Heidelburg.

2 1260 AD

Artillery arrives in Stuttgart.
Heidelburg is connected.
Six slaves work on the polluted mountain near Heidelburg. That might be a mistake; 6 turns to clean up that gunk. I think we need rails more.
​

[IBT]
Frankfurt vInf -> vInf in 3.
Nuremburg factory -> vCav in 7.
Hannover Stock Exchange -> vInf in 4.

3 1265 AD

Centralia connects to Cologne and Stuttgart, and then to Berlin.
Konigsberg connects, also.
​

[IBT]

Wonderful News

Leipzig Military Academy -> Stock Exchange in 4.
Hamburg vInf -> vInf in 3.
Munich rGalleon -> rGalleon in 2.
Heidelburg vInf -> vInf in 4.
Pollution near Nuremburg.
Stuttgart factory -> Stock Exchange in 12.

4 1270 AD

Frankfurt is connected.
Hannover is connected.
Hamburg is connected.
We have two left over slaves and 1 spare worker; they do pollution clean up around Nuremburg. We have one Worker coming in from Old Iroquois to help do something.
​

[IBT]
Allegheny factory -> aqueduct in 5.

5 1275 AD

Munich and Bremen are connected.
Need to connect the seven cities of Old Iroquois.

Allegheny is connected.
Boatload of workers arrive in Bremen.
Akwesasne is connected.
​

[IBT]
Frankfurt vInf -> vInf in 3.
Munich rGalleon -> rGalleon in 2.

Wonderful News

Cologne Pentagon -> Stock Exchange in 5.

6 1280 AD

Grand River is connected.
So is St. Regis, our westernmost city.
​

[IBT]
We learn Refining and start on Combustion, due in 10 at 50%.

Hamburg vInf -> vInf in 3.
Hannover vInf -> vInf in 3.

7 1285 AD

Salamanca is connected.
Niagara Falls in connected.
Bonn is connected.
Our rail network connects all our cities.
We begin to clean up the pollution near Munich.
​

[IBT]
Leipzig stock exchange -> vInf in 2.


Wall Street, anyone?

Munich rGalleon -> rGalleon in 2.
Heidelburg vInf -> vInf in 4.

8 1290 AD

Konigsberg Palace -> Wall Street in 1, -68 shields.
​

[IBT]
America and Mongols sign an MPP.

Wonderful News

Konigsberg Wall Street -> vInf in 3.
Frankfurt vInf -> vInf in 3.

9 1295 AD

We have 2 Egyptian settlers 3NW of our Incense.
​

[IBT]
Egypt builds Edfu 3NW of our Incense, on a hill.

Leipzig vInf -> vInf in 2.
Hamburg vinf -> vInf in 3.
Allegheny aqueduct -> university in 5.
Munich rGalleon -> rGalleon in 2.
Nuremburg vCav -> vCav in 5.
Hannover vInf -> vInf in 3.
Centralia factory -> vInf in 4.

10 1300 AD

Berlin's Fat-X is railed.
Nuremburg's Fat-X is railed (only 11 tiles, due to the coast).
Working on Liepzig's Fat-X; seven tiles to go.
Disband Trebuchet in St. Regis; Aqueduct now in 1, not 2. It cost 150 gold for this upgrade; easier to make a new Artillery; we have 14 German and 2 captured Artillery right now.

I started to park our military between Berlin and Frankfurt, grouped by type. All Infantry in one stack, all Calvary in one stack, etc. These stacks are all on railed tiles.

I'm blind. It dawns on me (on the last turn!) that we can lower our luxury rate and not hurt ourselves. Drop the happy slider to 0% and raise smart slider to 90%; Combustion in 5 (not 7) and +2 gpt. We do have some unhappy citizens, but all of our cities are fine and productive.
​

[IBT]

 

[CommandoBob]

Colony Area

Not much to show except the city build up and our unit placement. I kept Infantry on the road to keep our trade route open, and now I remember that it has to go through Babylon to Berlin, not from Darham to Berlin.


Greater Germany

Here is how our empire looks. As a guide, I indicated which areas I think we should rail first and then second. It is just a guide.


Other Stuff

Combustion in 5
10% Tax
90% Science
00% Luxury

+0 gpt

Military

• 15 Workers
• 32 Slaves
• 01 Swords
• 05 Muskets
• 14 Cavalry (+1)
• 26 Infantry (+12)
• 14 Artillery
• 03 Frigate
• 09 Galleon (+4)
• 05 Army
• 11 Maces
• 13 Guerillas
• 00 Trebuchets (-1)
• 08 Ancient Cavalry
• 01 Barbarosa (MGL)
  • 050 Allowed units
  • 125 Current units (+16)
  • 150 gpt unit support (+32)

We are still building Universal Suffrage in Berlin, 4 turns to go.

I built a lot of Infantry to make sure we would have plenty when we broke out of our shell. I know that once we can make Panzers that is probably all we will make, so we should make Infantry now. That is why I made Galleons, too.

 

[CommandoBob]

Roster:
CommandoBob - just played
Elephantium- UP!
TheOverseer714 - on deck
Admiral Kutzov - warming up

Tad Empire_0_o - lurking due to school and football practise (mentioned in another thread)
Cerenkov - lurking
Sasquatch - lurking
ThinkTank - lurking

 

[Elephantium]

I'll play my turnset over the weekend.

For now:

* Why are the cities in the SW (Bonn, St. Regis, etc) still so small?
* Do we intend to complete the US, or is it a prebuild?
* Is everyone okay with disbanding some obsolete units? I'm thinking we could speed up our research if we got rid of the ACavs, Maces, Muskets, and Swordsman.
* When are we planning to start the blitzkrieg? Once we have Panzers, once we're in Modern Times, or once we get a certain tech in the MT?
* What IS our war-plan? Attack the Mongols and the Vikings, then the guys from overseas? Attack Babylon first (to get coal)? Declare on everyone all at once?
* Should I avoid renegotiating/making new trades with any of the AIs?
* Should I avoid making new deals with any AIs in particular? (e.g. trading with Babylon is fine, but don't make any deals with Mongolia)

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

EDIT: This post has been cleaned up.

Haven't opened the save yet, but off the top...

* Why are the cities in the SW (Bonn, St. Regis, etc) still so small? No irrigation down there
* Do we intend to complete the US, or is it a prebuild? finish US if we're going to stay in republic
* Is everyone okay with disbanding some obsolete units? I'm thinking we could speed up our research if we got rid of the ACavs, Maces, Muskets, and Swordsman. Okay on dumping the ACavs. I'd rather upgrade the maces, muskets and swords. They're our garrison troops
* When are we planning to start the blitzkrieg? see below
* What IS our war-plan? Attack the Mongols and the Vikings, then the guys from overseas? Attack Babylon first (to get coal)? Declare on everyone all at once? Need to open the save first.
* Should I avoid renegotiating/making new trades with any of the AIs? I don't see why. Do what seems best. IIRC, we've agreed we're not going to worry about our reputation after panzers.
* Should I avoid making new deals with any AIs in particular? (e.g. trading with Babylon is fine, but don't make any deals with Mongolia) Again, I don't think we're going to worry about our rep after panzers.

Two words. Combat settlers. Drives me nuts to remember to starve conquered cities unless they have a wonder.

I'll look at the save in about 28 8 hours. time for night night now.

Warped thinking:
Hi, I got ambitious and went back and reviewed the rules.

I'm reposting here as an assist to my brain cell.

Just to repeat: Panzers and Modern Age.

The rest of the rules have sort of been bent, but not broken.

I'm not ambitious enough to review all the interim stuff and summarize. Bob has superbly summarazied where we are. I'm too lazy to find out how we got there.

I've haven't opened the save yet and may do so tonight (which will generate another idiotic post since I've just finish 18 hours of RL), but I actually think about these games on my 30 minute commute to work. Can we get enough cash to steal it?

We really need cops before the blitz starts. Why? Engineers can't build war machines. I'll expound if anyone can really stomach that.

Second point, everyone should review moblization rules. I think (and Igor agrees) that we can finish this pretty effen fast if we mobilize after we have cops

Third we should think about droppin' our research rate down once we've met the requirements. Use gpt to bribe the various AI into war with each other.

Fourth, Bob is now sorry and sending me PMs to be quiet.

Fifth, did I mention that I have issues?

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

well this is just plains nuts...

Well, I had too much coffee and can't sleep. Random ramblings.

Let's bring the galleons home in preparation for upgrades to transports.

My preferred research path is combustion, mass production, motorized transport, flight. Somewhere in there, beg, borrow or steal nationalism and cops.

We've got oil and rubber in the national boundaries.

Hammy is our best friend until the rest of the world is dead. Joan is our next best friend once we go.

Once we have panzers, respectfully suggest we focus our attention on Philadelphia, Abydos, then Memphis. Done right, this gets us diamonds and furs domesticaly, I'd rather resettle than starve and risk flipping. We would need 6-8 combat settlers and garrison units. This implies we drop off research at the appropriate time and upgrade a bunch of units.

Open for discussion. Hopefully, someone can come up with a more effcient plan.

 

[CommandoBob]

Trading and Science
We have 5 turns left for Combustion at 90%, leaving Mass Production, Motorized Transport and Flight needed to finish out this age. I don't know the beaker costs of these techs, but Combustion initially was 10 turns at 50% science; so maybe 7 or 8 turns at 90%. Three full techs (3 x 8 = 24) plus 5 more for this tech brings us to around 29, say 30 turns to get all this research done. Three turnsets.

So we do want to sell techs to the AIs so that their gold will fuel our research.

Cops will help us reduce corruption and help to build our spiffy engines of war, but Universal Suffrage puts a police station in each city for no charge and that will reduce corruption, too. That may be just as good as using cops, but I don't know for sure.

Older Units
We have 8 Ancient Calvary. Why not upgrade them to full Cavlary?

We have:
1 Sword
5 Muksets
11 Maces
13 Guerillas
26 Infantry

If we upgrade the Sword, Muskets and Maces we would double the number of Guerilla units. Sounds good. We have units in Armies. Can they be upgraded too? I have never tried.

Our Galleons are all in port; we have one Frigate off the west coast that is eyeing a small American fleet.

Initial War Plans
Uh, Joan isn't in this game. The Pink Powder-Puff Civ is actually the Arabs.

Aside from that, I have no objection to pouncing on the Yanks first. Getting luxuries for us I always like.

In addition to combat settlers, with Flight we can build Airfields. They cost us a worker but if we could throw 5 units across the ocean every turn, in addition to our transports, we should wear down resistance in no time.

With about 30 or more turns until we be can be little Rommels, we need to try to produce 2 settlers a turn set. Once we get Panzer production on-line, we can crank out workers from our smaller cities, earmarked for airfields. Razing and replacing cities will give us a lot of overseas slaves, so railing for conquest should not be a problem.

Ike
I've spent a good portion of the night watching the newshounds chatter and ramble on about Hurricane Ike. I'm in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, so all we will get is rain, but my wife is from around Port Arthur, so she pays a lot of attention to these weather events. That is why I am posting so late. For me it really is almost 2 am.

 

[Optional]

Kibitzer: Ancient Cavalries do not upgrade.
Does Universal Suffrage really put a police station everywhere? I've never built it, but why have I never come across that bit of info?
Edit: Units in armies also don't upgrade.

 

[Elephantium]

AFAIK the US doesn't create a police station - it just reduces war weariness (perhaps by the same amount as a police station does?)

 

[CommandoBob]

...but Universal Suffrage puts a police station in each city for no charge and that will reduce corruption, too. That may be just as good as using cops, but I don't know for sure.

I should have gone to bed eariler.

Building US does reduce War Weariness, according to the Civlopedia, but that book doesn't say how it manages to do that. It does not put a Police Station in any city, as I once thought. Police Stations become available once Communism is learned; the specialists Police Officers come with Nationalism.

Somehow US does reduce WW, but I wasn't able to find out the nuts and bolts details of how it works. The most I found was that it's magic is applied to the WW formula before WW is calculated and applied.

I tried Googling for Universal Suffrage and Police Station and Optional's post above was on the first page of results.

 

[Elephantium]

I'd like to disband both MDI armies to speed Factory builds. Any objections?

 

[TheOverseer714]

We have the Pentagon and HE and the Military Academy, so the MDI armies are replaceable, and what they will be replaced with are Panzer armies. As they say in Minnesota, gopher it. That's my 1 per day pun limit....

 

[Elephantium]

Gopher it.

*snerk*



...Oh, no! I mis-clicked and GAVE Cleo wines, spices, and ivory Just when we could have used 'em to renegotiate our Furs deal, too.

Should I reload that autosave?

 

[CommandoBob]

...Oh, no! I mis-clicked and GAVE Cleo wines, spices, and ivory Just when we could have used 'em to renegotiate our Furs deal, too.

Should I reload that autosave?

Your call, really. I don't have a problem with that; not for this kind of mistake.

I would point out that we have six turns left on the Fur deal with Egypt. We could get Furs as part of a tech trade, too.