CBob04 Achtung Panzer!

[Tad Empire_0_o]

Philosophy- I think we need some more workers because we need to get our lands improved so that we can catch up with our "allys" because I think that the AI have techs past Writing & might start colonizing islands & getting more powerfull & harder to kill.



Turn 0- MM Berlin. Find out everyone has Writing before us... Hit Enter

IBT- We get a warrior in Frankfort -> start on a worker

Turn 1- We kill a barb warrior with a rArcher & promotes Send settler pair toward pink circle.

IBT- Mongols Demand 25 gold fine... we need to catch up in Techs.

Turn 2-

IBT-

Turn 3- We discover a New (?) land mass with warrior... but its across the water North of Mongols. We get a Currah in Koingsburg & send it North.

IBT-

Turn 4- Found Munich on the Pink Circle (cBobs map) & start a worker.

IBT-

Turn 5-

Turn 6- We build a worker in Lepzig... start another one. Also Birlin builds settler & sends it toward the cow Gold Lake spot East.

Turn 7-

Turn 8- We lose a rWarrior vs. a Barb warrior in a camp

IBT-

Turn 9- We found Heidelburg & start worker.

Turn 10- We get writing! good news... nobody has techs past writing... start Philosophy & we might want to get lititure... we need to catch up. Move people we get Philosophy in 15 turns


Military:
Warrior: 8
Worker(s): 9
Archers: 1
Currah: 2

Picture of our empire:

The Save:

 

[ThinkTank]

Guess that makes me up. Got it. Probably will play today.

 

[Bucephalus]

Philosophy- I think we need some more workers because we need to get our lands improved

lurker's comment:

You would be better served by making more effective use of the ones you have, IMO; Hamburg - for example - has four Workers improving tiles, yet is only size one.
Yet, going by the screenshot, only Berlin is not working unimproved tiles.

BTW, Leipzig will complete its Worker 6 turns before it grows.

 

[TheOverseer714]

We need a city west of Berlin, on the river mouth, so we have a port city in that area. It would also be low corruption, so the next settler should go there. Use the forest tiles to get some growth going. Build 3 more settlers, and that will be 10 cities. 2 more fills our 12 city limit, so we might reserve them for later. Then Berlin can start building other stuff.

 

[Tad Empire_0_o]

BTW, Leipzig will complete its Worker 6 turns before it grows.

oops I have Lipzig starting on a shield tile...it should be working the Wheat... sorry

 

[ThinkTank]

Hi guys, I've played 8 turns. In turn 8 we were first to Philosophy, picking Literature. I then traded Philosophy and some change for The Wheel, Ceremonial Burial, Mathematics and MapMaking. I can now also trade Literature for Horseback Riding and Mysticsm and some 70g. Should I do this? Some considerations:

1. Self-researching HB at max takes 5 turns only, Myst 4 turns, Code of Laws 13 turns.
2. AI is normally late to research Lit so there is a good chance that Lit will keep it's trade value and we can trade it for something useful, like Code of Laws.
3. I think our overall goal should now be to acquire Code of Laws and then research Republic at min.
4. I assume that right now the AI can research CoL faster than we can do it ourselves.
5. So that means the question is how large a priority CoL is for the AI, because that will determine whether they actually will research CoL now.

Under the assumption that CoL is a priority for the AI, my vote would be to not trade Lit now, and self-research first HB, and possibly Myst after that, and try to pick up CoL form the AI in the process. What do you think?

 

[TheOverseer714]

I think self-research here is better, especially if we build the GLib ourselves. If we don't, Literature will still have trade value for some time. In 9 turns, CoL might be available anyway, and we'll have done Myst and HBR ourselves. The brisk tech pace should make CoL show up soon. Don't trade Literature yet.

 

[CommandoBob]

Sounds good to me, too.

 

[CommandoBob]

I will be on vacation from April 5 to April 12. I might have internet access but I won't have Civ with me.

I'll try to keep up, but no promises.

 

[ThinkTank]

I've played. Turnlog later today. Summary: we have 1 more city, 2 settlers on the move. We acquired Philosophy, Literature, The Wheel, Ceremonial Burial, Mathematics and MapMaking.

Some pictures.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

The save.

 

[ThinkTank]

Turnlog.

CBob04 - 1250 BC

Cities: 7
Pop: 12
Workers: 9
Warriors: 8
Archers: 1
Curraghs: 2
(Units total 20)

Economy: 159 g, sliders lux-sci-tax 0-50-50, Philosophy in 15.
Change sliders to 100% sci, now -10gpt, Philosophy in 9.
Since writing is known by all AIs we know, forget about Republic slingshot, and go for literature slingshot instead.

Cities

Berlin (3): settler in 1, only 4 shields needed but doing 7, exchange 1 BG for wheat.
Leipzig (1), worker in 3, growth in 7. It is using the BG doing 2f3s, with the wheat it would do 4f1s. We have 2f3s in the bin for the worker, so it needs 1 more turn doing the BG (giving 4f6s in the bin) and then the wheat for 4 turns, giving 20f10s, that is, worker produce on growth. So need to switch to the wheat not this turn but next turn.
Hamburg (1) growth in 7, warrior in 9. There are 4 workers around here. 1 of them is irrigating sugar, this is not right since the extra food will disappear due to the despotism penalty, sugar should be mined in despotism. Change work orders of 2 workers, and send 2 towards Frankfurt.
Konigsberg (2) growth in 3, worker in 5. Change build to settler. worker here is mining a plain grass that is not used, set it to mine the wheat.
Frankfurt (1): worker in 1, growth in 1; ok.
Munich (2): worker in 4, growth in 6. It uses the iron hill but both shields are corrupted, switch citizen to floodplain. Now worker still in 4, growth in 5.
Heidelberg (1): growth in 8, worker in 8: ok.

Looking at the game for a long time, we need more settler builds. Leave build orders as is for now, will set Frankfurt to settler next turn after the worker completes.

IBT
Mongols boot us, yes sir, we are not ready for you yet.
Barbarian activity near Munich.
Berlin: settler -> settler.
Frankfurt: worker -> settler.

1: 1225 BC
Switch citizen in Leipzig to wheat: now growth in 4, worker in 4.
Frankfurt is threatened by barb horse on hill, we have 1 fortified warrior there,
My gut feeling says defending gives better odds then attacking.
Due to the completion of the settler in Berlin, philosophy now in 10.
Our eastern curragh is threatened by 3 barb galleys, it kills 1.

IBT
Barb horse kills warrior in Frankfurt, we loose 1 citizen and some cash.
2 barb galleys suicide on our eastern curragh, which goes elite.

2: 1200 BC
Philosophy now in 9.
MM Konigsberg for max shields since it only needs 1 more food to grow.

IBT
Nada.

3: 1175 BC
Nuremberg founded -> rax.
Philosophy now in 7 (an extra town and growth save a turn).

IBT
1 barb galley suicides on our eastern curragh.
Munich: worker -> settler.

4: 1150 BC
Philosophy in 6.
Iroquois and Mongols have MapMaking! We have nothing to trade.

IBT
Barb galley gets 2 hp off our eastern curragh before it dies.
Leipzig: worker -> rax.
Hamburg: warrior -> rax.

5: 1125 BC
Philosophy in 5.
Vikings now have MapMaking too.

IBT
Mongols boot us again.

6: 1100 BC
Barb horse threatens worker near Munich. Our archer kills it and turns elite, but redlines.
Philosophy in 3.
Berlin has grown to 2, grows in 7, but settler in 3 shield wise. I should have seen that one coming.

IBT
Mongols boot us again.
A chop contributes to rax in Hamburg.

7: 1075 BC
Philosophy in 2. We are doing 26 bpt and we need another 38 beakers. That's 4 scientists, probably 1 or 2 more to account for missing commerce when you switch a citizen to a scientist. I add in a worker to Berlin and set the new citizen to scientist. Additionally Berlin will now be able to complete the settler in 2. I can hire some more scientists to get philosophy in 1.


IBT
Vikings demand 26g, ok, we shall meet again some time.
Philosophy comes in, choose Literature as free tech.
Heidelberg: worker -> rax.
Chop contributes to rax in Leipzig.

8: 1050 BC
Inspect the tech situation. Mongols, Iroquois and Vikings all have The Wheel, Ceremonial Burial, Mathematics, and MapMaking on us, and lack Phil and Lit.
Make the following deals (in this order, namely most expensive ones first).
Iroquois: MapMaking and 45 gold for Philosophy.
Mongols: Mathematics for 65g and Philosophy.
Vikings: The Wheel and Ceremonial Burial for 81g and Philosophy.
After the trades it turns out that Mysticism and HorsebackRiding are also around, but after consulting the team decide to not trade Lit now, and self-research first HB (in 5 at max), and possibly Myst (in 4 at max) after that, and try to pick up CoL from the AI in the process.

IBT
Berlin: settler -> library.
Iroquois establish an embassy with us.

9: 1025 BC
Not Much

IBT
Iroquois boot us, yes.
Konigsberg: settler -> worker

10: 1000 BC
End of set. Some units have movement still, please check.

 

[ThinkTank]

If all is well, CommandoBob will be back in the weekend. I think this is the roster:

Roster:
TheOverseer714 - waiting
Sasquatch - lurking
Tad Empire_0_o - waiting longer
ThinkTank - just played
Cerenkov - UP!
CommandoBob- warming up

 

[TheOverseer714]

Good turns, ThinkTank Cerenkov has been absent from the forums of late, hope all is well with him. I wonder if a new practice for SG's could be is if the person who is up makes no contact for 24 hours, then a teammate who is active might then send a PM that he is up. From there, 24 more hours and then declare a skip. So many SG team members have been disappearing of late that it's getting to be a major issue. Hope Cerenkov shows soon.

 

[Bucephalus]

Frankfurt is threatened by barb horse on hill, we have 1 fortified warrior there,
My gut feeling says defending gives better odds then attacking..

lurker's comment:

Barb Horses have the same stats as any other Horse, so you have better odds attacking.

 

[ThinkTank]

lurker's comment:

Barb Horses have the same stats as any other Horse, so you have better odds attacking.

Out in the open field I'd agree, but it was a bit more complicated, because there was a river between the town and the hill on which the horse was (it was on the tile directly S of Frankfurt).

According to BomberEscort's combat calculator, which I did not consult (hence the "gut feeeling"), the odds actually are rather close:

Defend: win 22.4, draw 56.8, loss 20.8.
Attack: win 25.6, loss 72.4.

 

[ThinkTank]

So here is a little quiz in order to kill time. What is wrong, or at least over-suggestive, with this:

lurker's comment:
Barb Horses have the same stats as any other Horse, so you have better odds attacking.

BTW, the answer also invalidates my initial reply to Buce, so I will redo that after the answer comes in.

Note that the issue was to choose between defending and attacking, for a reg warrior fortified in a town on grass, a barbarian horse on a hill, and a river between the town and the hill.

Winner gets a .

 

[Bucephalus]

lurker's comment:

Are you refering to the fact that if the Horse retreated your Warrior would move out of the city, leaving it undefended for the next Barb turn, TT?

If so, I didn't miss that, I was only replying to your statement that "my gut says defending gives better odds than attacking...".

If you had said, " my gut says that strategically I'm better off defending...", then I would have agreed.

 

[ThinkTank]

Are you refering to the fact that if the Horse retreated your Warrior would move out of the city, leaving it undefended for the next Barb turn, TT?

No, I had not thought of this, I am thinking only of combat odds.

 

[Bucephalus]

lurker's comment:

Hmm, are you refering to the Combat bonus against Barbs?

 

[ThinkTank]

Hmm, are you refering to the Combat bonus against Barbs?

Yes, and that should figure in the equation. So even if a barb horse has the same stats as an AI horse, our units have better stats against a barb horse than against an AI horse. At emperor we get a 50% combat bonus against barbs. Question is how this shifts the numbers. I'll be back on that shortly.