CCM1 (epic mod)

[djolecorp]

It sounds as if captured workers may not actually show as additional citizens in a city that they are ordered to join and remain as 'foreign nationals'. But then in what way are these foreign workers actually helping city production?

Thanks for info, but actually that was not my question.
They simply disappeared while trying to join city, no pop or shield boost...

#2 is likely there was a hidden unit in the stack. You usually can hear them making sounds. There are many types of hidden units in the mod (Mullah, Lawyer and so forth).

I forget the deal on the workers as I had not tried to add any as they are too useful to add.

Nice. That wasn't on my mind, it just happened few times, maybe too much coincidence, I'll try again.
Yeah, makes sense (worker thing).


While I am here, I'd like to add few things, maybe as improvement if you like them.
Now, I am playing with Russians. Just some minor game feature.
Madge, that plane that is moving through water - upgraded from heavy coastal battery has some "problems". First of all, it has two bombard options, one with range 2 and second with range 3. I guess one with range 3 is extra since I never managed to hit someone on that distance.
Also, isn't bit strange that torpedo can bombard even land units? I was just thinking...

First bombard airplane that is available for Russia is Sikorsky Mourometz V (120 shields) and it has absolutely same characteristics with his modern upgrade Tupolev SB-2 (140 shields) and it even costs 60 gold to upgrade. That was also strange to me.

Alpine troops, cheering with Nazi swastika when they get promoted? Not in my Russia
Maybe that small wonder shouldn't be created within all nations...

 

[Civinator]

First of all, great mod. Very interesting and "time-wasting"

djolecorp, thank you very much for your interest in CCM and for your reports about some bugs in CCM.

I've noticed few small bugs:
1) Mod has problem with showing Turkish leader Ataturk - immediately exits game with error that file can't be found.

I never had such a loading problem with CCM and no such problem was reported until now. So I´m interested, if other civers had such a problem with Ataturk, too.

2) Marine attacks sometimes have strange problem with attack, like they are attacking ghosts For example, I've put some marines in transport and attacked cannon, what happened is that they are attacking nothing, they are losing health like real battle (yeah, marine with 8 attack managed to lose bar against cannon ) but cannon stays in place, nothing actually happened and marine lost turn.

As said above, you had invisible units in the stacks.

3) This may not be bug, but its not explained (or I haven't noticed), I remember that I had few captured workers and I wanted them to join to some my city as citizen. First time, it succeeded, but after, I don't know, 1000 years, I have tried same and they simply disappeared while trying to join city, with no actual pop boost. I was thinking, ok, you can create workers later and join them, so disappear makes sense, but why to captured workers, they weren't created by myself.

That´s an interesting one. The worker in CCM has no population point and is only available in the late eras of CCM. The reason for this setting is, to avoid such unscrupulous tactics in CCM, that players starve down captured cities to small numbers and than fill these cities with masses of transported population points by workers. On the other side a captured worker stays a worker and therefore has no population point, too (and for the reason above, this setting will stay).

The function for workers to join cities must stay as otherwise the workers will loose their terraform options and can´t be used as workers any longer. What I can do, is a warning in the civilopedia not to use the "join city option" with workers or captured workers, if you don´t want to see that worker dissapearing in the void.

Madge, that plane that is moving through water - upgraded from heavy coastal battery has some "problems". First of all, it has two bombard options, one with range 2 and second with range 3. I guess one with range 3 is extra since I never managed to hit someone on that distance.

This is an error in the current settings of all flying boats in CCM. Thank you for reporting it. When testing how to incooperate such a class of units in an epic mod, one of the early setting of these units was, to give them an additional small rebase option (that also works for sea units) and the rebase range is determined 3 times the range of that unit. That´s why there was an additional range setting of three for these units. I removed this option from the flying boats as tests showed, that the AI didn´t use it in the way I wanted it. So in the next version of the biq, the additional setting of range 3 for all flying boats (including the Madge) will be removed, too.

Also, isn't bit strange that torpedo can bombard even land units? I was just thinking...

Yes, but this is the only way to use the torpedo attack animation in Civ 3 and I want to use this animation as it looks great in my eyes. If you only use the flying boats for attacks against ships, you will not face this shortcome so frequently.

First bombard airplane that is available for Russia is Sikorsky Mourometz V (120 shields) and it has absolutely same characteristics with his modern upgrade Tupolev SB-2 (140 shields) and it even costs 60 gold to upgrade. That was also strange to me.

I will have a look in the stats of these units.

Alpine troops, cheering with Nazi swastika when they get promoted? Not in my Russia

And defenitely no longer in the complete CCM. I haven´t had a look into the victory image of that unit when I replaced the old alpine unit. Now the next mainfile for CCM will come much quicker as I thought I will do it. I don´t have the time any longer to wait until Wyrmshadow does some of his announced and long awaited modern western armored units - I want to get rid of the victory graphic of that unit. For a quick correction of the alpine unit I have attached a new INI with the victory graphics and sounds deleted, as I don´t like the alternative victory graphic of that unit either. Simply copy it in the old unit´s file of the Alpine troops unit and replace the old INI.

 

[tom2050]

Yes, but this is the only way to use the torpedo attack animation in Civ 3 and I want to use this animation as it looks great in my eyes. If you only use the flying boats for attacks against ships, you will not face this shortcome so frequently.

I specifically thought about this aspect when i started making the subs, and the TB, etc. I let subs shoot their deck gun first, and then Attack2 is torpedos. This should get rid of the problem with subs bombarding land with torpedos. Same with the TB's.

I hope it works sufficiently though in mods. The G-101 was set to Torpedo, Guns, Torpedo in the INI.. but it might be better to have it set to Guns, Torpedos (so the torp land bombardment problem doesn't exist).

 

[Civinator]

I specifically thought about this aspect when i started making the subs, and the TB, etc. I let subs shoot their deck gun first, and then Attack2 is torpedos. This should get rid of the problem with subs bombarding land with torpedos. Same with the TB's.

I hope it works sufficiently though in mods. The G-101 was set to Torpedo, Guns, Torpedo in the INI.. but it might be better to have it set to Guns, Torpedos (so the torp land bombardment problem doesn't exist).

tom2050, I will have a look in the settings you are posting here. And also a very big thank you very much for all your wonderful naval units you were giving to Civ 3 in the last time. Some of them will appear in the next graphics main file of CCM. The G-101 has a good chance to be among them.

 

[vmxa]

Didn't I read about an event in WWII were a torp did take out a truck?

 

[tom2050]

Wasn't that posted somewhere here? IIRC, it was in the mediterranean sea? Torpedo blew up a truck that was inland. I couldn't find the story though.

I guess Civ 3 is more accurate than we think!

Poor guy in the truck. You see a submarine and you think "I'm alright, no need to worry", and suddenly a torpedo is flying up your trucks tailpipe.

 

[vmxa]

I could not recall the theatre of the war it was in, but that is whathappened. hey shot at somethignandmissed and it hit the truck. I know they use skip bombings in WWII where a plane dropped a bomb on water and skipped it like a rock to a dam.

 

[Civinator]

I also have heard about the story of the torpedoed truck so I couldn´t find it in the internet -but I found a nice story about a truck sinking a submarine :

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/explore/sea-an...ls/was-a-german-u-boat-really-sunk-by-a-truck

tom2050 at present I´m somewhat cautious with your proposal of setting the submarine bombardement graphics, as I slightly remember that the bombardement attack only uses the graphics of the first attack animation.

 

[djolecorp]

Ok, I think I've figured out few things.
Atatürk-LG.pcx

check file name, it has non ASCII character - ü
not sure, but it looks like that may be problem...

Another thing, about workers. Point is, workers may not join city, they will be simply disbanded but slaves may! Units captured using enslaver may join city as regular citizens.

 

[Civinator]

Ok, I think I've figured out few things.
Atatürk-LG.pcx

check file name, it has non ASCII character - ü
not sure, but it looks like that may be problem...

Yes this could be that some civers here can have a problem. So for the next upload I should change this.

Another thing, about workers. Point is, workers may not join city, they will be simply disbanded but slaves may! Units captured using enslaver may join city as regular citizens.

As said, it is a question if the unit has a population point. The slave has such a point -the worker not.

 

[Moosezilla]

No symbol for airports is a pain, I have taken to basing fighers at each as reminders. Also Wall Street wonder seems to work w/banks instead of SEs. Not sure. And coastal gun obsolete is other than stated.

 

[Civinator]

No symbol for airports is a pain, I have taken to basing fighers at each as reminders.

Unfortunately Firaxis connected the plane symbol with the airtrade function of the airport and not with the function to build/heal veteran aircraft. The airtrade function in CCM is used otherwise to cut down the turntimes on big maps.

Also Wall Street wonder seems to work w/banks instead of SEs. Not sure.

In the editor that wonder is set with three stock exchanges as perequisite.

And coastal gun obsolete is other than stated.

In the civilopedia the entry when the coastal fortress (that autoproduces coastal batteries) is going obsolete(with the tech explosives) is still missing. The heavy coastal battery comes with explosives and gets obsolete with rocketry. Here the civilopedia entry is still missing, too.

 

[CommandoBob]

So what is the final word on these?

I'm in biq 1.7 and I see messages about various people having MAs. I don't recall who they are; just sorta jealous that they have them and I do not. I will take note of the next MA pop-up I see, though I expect it to be France or Britian.

It seems like they were out, then added back in for Britian and France and then taken out (to be taken out ?) again.

Otherwise:

I'm on my second game of CCM and it is very, very different from 'normal' C3C. Enjoyable, but different. My first game I got stuck on Australia and it took forever to find any contacts. This was not an Earth map, as others have wanted, but Australia best describes my start. If this were Risk, that would be okay, but this is a big-boys game and that means it was a bad start.

Things I miss:
Military Alliances
Armies
Sun Tzu's instant barracks
Pyramids instant granaries (but not as much as the barracks; too many AW games!)
CxxC city spacing for early defense (another AW inspired reflex)
No building maintainence
Three movement-point Cavalry

Things I like:
Two movement-point workers (when you can build them)
Two movement-point settlers (when you can build them)
You can cross a border with a two move settler AND build a city, all on the same turn woohoo
Enslaving by invisible units

Things I'm learning to deal with:
Limited early growth potential
Lack of late game tech trading
Is that slave a Move 1 or a Move 2 unit?
Bloodier/more costly wars
Artillery is very different, but Move 2 is a nice feature
Fewer things to do with an MGL.

And, oh, yeah, it is Fun!

 

[Elephantium]

Things I miss:
Military Alliances
Armies
Sun Tzu's instant barracks
Pyramids instant granaries (but not as much as the barracks; too many AW games!)
CxxC city spacing for early defense (another AW inspired reflex)
No building maintainence
Three movement-point Cavalry

Finally getting Lancias (3-move armored cars) in Rat41 was VERY nice It's amazing how much of a difference that makes!

 

[Moosezilla]

I'm playing as a Monarchy ie no SE but while conquering Portugal I suddenly have the the Wall Street build on my city screen.

 

[tom2050]

Things I miss:
Military Alliances
Armies
Sun Tzu's instant barracks
Pyramids instant granaries (but not as much as the barracks; too many AW games!)
CxxC city spacing for early defense (another AW inspired reflex)
No building maintainence
Three movement-point Cavalry

One successful thing I've used for Armies, is that when an army has a successful battle, it allows for an improvement to be built which auto-produces a 1-unit army every so often. This lets AI usually get Armies before human player. Of course, I don't use leaders, so Armies are created through successful combat, which ensures AI will built Army producing improvements and get them. It also means you can only have a single "produced-by-combat army" at a time. The earlier this happens, can make a big difference in power later on.

It also means that militaristic civ's have a much better chance of this happening and and improves their militaristic-ness even more.

I think CCM, IIRC uses leaders, so that idea may not work as well here. Just a thought.

 

[CommandoBob]

One successful thing I've used for Armies, is that when an army has a successful battle, it allows for an improvement to be built which auto-produces a 1-unit army every so often. This lets AI usually get Armies before human player. Of course, I don't use leaders, so Armies are created through successful combat, which ensures AI will built Army producing improvements and get them. It also means you can only have a single "produced-by-combat army" at a time. The earlier this happens, can make a big difference in power later on.

It also means that militaristic civ's have a much better chance of this happening and and improves their militaristic-ness even more.

I think CCM, IIRC uses leaders, so that idea may not work as well here. Just a thought.

I've had MGLs in CCM but Armies are not allowed at all. That takes some getting used to. Armies are great for taking out the best defender in a city.

Hmm.

What if Armies initially were only 2 units strong and then later could hold 3 units? Would that be enough to make them less awesome?

 

[tom2050]

I used 1 unit Armies, because you can get 2 Armies every 45 turns or so, and AI uses w/o problem. It's tough to get AI to use 2/3/4 units Armies because of the bug Firaxis introduced into the Conquests expansion.

Plus, if Armies get very little overall bonus (+1 hitpoint, etc and perhaps ZOC, Radar), then they will still get taken out by regular troops if not protected... so it gives advantage but doesn't make them invincible to the AI.

 

[vmxa]

You could make a case that the invincible aspect of armies is the largest boost. IOW I can have say a knight army at full health and never worry about it being attack in the field, if it is healthy.

This is more useful to me than being able to kill any unit in town. I can kill the unit in town anyway, just needs more units or bombardment. In CCM the biggest problem for me is invading and having my stack get attacked.

That stack would be safe in a normal game, with an army covering it. Then I do not take all those losses on the IBT. I can even deal with the losses on offense in CCM, but the stacks being attacked can often doom my attempt to capture a given town.

Further even when I take few losses on defense, I may lose a key unit or two to units that get to select the target they attack. Say they take out you culture bombing units or the artillery piece that has low defense, but great attack.

 

[Moosezilla]

I like one unit armies but I find my experience w/MEM proves that the human can easily exploit this w/multiple armies. AI needs the break found here in CCM.