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They're not. Firaxis isn't rating the stuff or evaluating it themselves. They're letting laws and the users do it themselves. Funny how that works.
Censorship in civ 5
- Thread starter Blitzscream
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They're not. Firaxis isn't rating the stuff or evaluating it themselves. They're letting laws and the users do it themselves. Funny how that works.
GenericPlayer
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2010
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- 117
I do believe that not having Hitler as a leader or nazi insignia takes away credibility from any WW2 mod. However, I can understand 2k wanting to avoid any hint of impropriety. It may be a user created mod, but the important details are lost in the news. For example the hot coffee in San Andreas was not a standard feature but something the user had to make some effort to uncover - and it didn't really show anything you couldn't see in a PG 13 flick. Similarly, the love scene in Mass Effect had less nudity than, say, Cameron's Titanic, but it got the 'Fox' treatment as well.
The big issue here is that politicians (and I guess society at large) are far more critical of games than they are of movies or novels. That movie that shows Hitler's final hours (you know, the one that gets all the modded subtitles on youtube) was German. So in a movie its ok, but in a game its not. Similarly, you see a lot of movies and TV shows that depict murder, rape, theft...etc in New York City - but when GTA IV is released you see politicians and pundits blasting the game for depicting crime in something that looks like NYC.
TL;DR Computer games are not taken seriously as a form of artistic expression or education the same way movies and documentaries are.
The big issue here is that politicians (and I guess society at large) are far more critical of games than they are of movies or novels. That movie that shows Hitler's final hours (you know, the one that gets all the modded subtitles on youtube) was German. So in a movie its ok, but in a game its not. Similarly, you see a lot of movies and TV shows that depict murder, rape, theft...etc in New York City - but when GTA IV is released you see politicians and pundits blasting the game for depicting crime in something that looks like NYC.
TL;DR Computer games are not taken seriously as a form of artistic expression or education the same way movies and documentaries are.
DalekDavros
Prince
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2010
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- 303
Sure it can. By removing it in Germany (where it sounds like there may be a legal issue), the German government is censoring it. By removing it everywhere else too, 2k is censoring it. Either way it's censorship.
Jharii
King
So what. Call it censorship, call it adhering to German law, call it semantics. Their behavior in not allowing it as a mod is far more mature than whining over the same topic. It's a completely trivial issue, particularly since you can download it from other sources.
Licinia Eudoxia
Empress
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2010
- Messages
- 424
B-b-but my Video Game Hitler!!
Seriously, if you have a moral concern about censorship, you have a lot of work to do before Civilization 5's in-game mod browser becomes a worthy battleground.
It's a non-issue.
This is not right.
Bismarck crushed the republican movement by creating concflicts that only the biggest power (Prussia) could solve. In fact, he sort of threatened the German minors into forming (prussian) Germany. The main reason for not having a civil war during that time was the military power of Prussia.
It could also be argued whether or not Bismarck is at least partly responsible for what happend to Germany during WW1 and 2.
They have a multinational system, so they have to apply multinatinal standards.
You will find any game with a historical focus disallows swastikas, paradox being another notable example. This includes mods. If they didn't have such a hard line stance they would be unable to sell games in germany, austria, and possibly a few other countries i'm unaware of.
You simply can't allow modding that would make the game illegal in those countries. They still exist of course, but you won't find them hosted on official game sites.
You simply can't allow modding that would make the game illegal in those countries. They still exist of course, but you won't find them hosted on official game sites.
God forbid they actually follow the law! It may not be outright illegal, but any company in the world would rather avoid the lawsuits given a choice.
Really, some people on here...
Correct. And the Hitler mod had Nazi symbols all over the place, hence the removal.
This.
Thisthisthisthisthis.
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
Regarding the argument about following regional law vs multinational game then since it possible to block individual IPs and sniff out from what country they originate then surely it would be possible to block certain content for download - only in the regions where any legal restrictions apply.
If they want to show the innovation and flexibility they claim Steam can offer - then here is their chance to prove that claim. Otherwise then Steam fails at yet another task.
If they want to show the innovation and flexibility they claim Steam can offer - then here is their chance to prove that claim. Otherwise then Steam fails at yet another task.
It's illegal to show the swastika here but it isn't illegal to depict The Führer (as far as I'm aware)
This is a game that has a look at history and as far as I'm aware many of the leaders in history have been blood-thirsty mass murdering despots. Is it a reason not to depict them? I don't think so.
This is a game that has a look at history and as far as I'm aware many of the leaders in history have been blood-thirsty mass murdering despots. Is it a reason not to depict them? I don't think so.
Censoring it as historical reference makes no sense, it happened after all. One thing is to forbid making propagando of it, but using a flag, symbol or leader, to represent that leader in a historical game, has nothing to do with propaganda, but with beeing historically accurate.
kooboo
Lurker
There are plenty historically accurate flags of Germany, Japan, Russia or even France, Poland or China to use. There is no point to use the controversial one.
Also - it's not historical game, it's loosely based on history of humankind.
Think your missing the point.. If the mod is hosted within game using the mod browser under German laws the game would fall foul of at least six legal ammendments to the main law (they added two last year).. A lot of companies get around it by having a different platform for release in Germany though this creates problems and you find most people try to either hack their version or you end up with masses of incompatible mods..
The best solution is to allow mods to be simply entered manually and let users do this without using the mod browser and therefore keep everything that is in the mdo browser international and compatible..
This is a non issue (game wise.. German law is the only issue).. And the solution taken is the best one..
The best solution is to allow mods to be simply entered manually and let users do this without using the mod browser and therefore keep everything that is in the mdo browser international and compatible..
This is a non issue (game wise.. German law is the only issue).. And the solution taken is the best one..
M
Me,myself,and,I
Guest
I am not German so I am not 100% percent sure on this but it is my understanding that it is illegal to depict Hitler and various Nazi symbols (Death's head, swastika) in Germany, EXCEPT in historical content, so movies such as "Downfall" "Das boot" and history books are okay; but fiction that includes swastikas etc is illegal.
M
Me,myself,and,I
Guest
No there isn't anything actually illegal in those countries in ciV. Perhaps taboo (Lhasa) but not illegal.
M
Me,myself,and,I
Guest
What HE said
We are in double agreement. Now let us see if ev responds...EDIT: He did not.
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