Challange #3-Lets get cultural

Still working on one more... but can't seem to get past 57k... This one is without Pyramids at least, so pretty decent I guess...

The biggest problem I run into is that, when I finally land Nationalism, I can't seem to get enough money to buy the buildings. My economy is just too weak and then it is a tossup between production or specialists. Alas...

Thanks for including me. I don't really belong on the list to be honest as I wouldn't have got there without everyone else. So thanks all. If this last one does better, I will mention it.
 
here is my best one so far at 63,8k, maybe got a bit unlucky with 2 GPs instead of GAs (one with a 50/50 chance and the other with 90/10 in favor of the GA) so it could have been better.

however i barely managed to break legendary before reading some of the tips in this thread. so it was a very entertaining challenge and i learned a lot (lord knows i have to) :gp:

knowing myself i´ll probably give this another go :rolleyes:

cheers
 
I give up on this one guys... my final one I was really doing well with Sistine and Notre both done by 200 -- thanks to an engineer, then Saladin attacks me... fend him off, only to find Mansa next and he wipes the floor with me. I may go back to it as it is a fun challenge, but I'm concede on this one.

Looking forward to the next one though. :goodjob:
 
Well the last day for official-ish entries is today and I decided to finish off my 3rd attempt. Used a difficult and risky strategy. Who'd have thought that a Warmongering strat would have paid off for a culture challenge?!?


Raisers 3rd attempt: 93,277:culture:. Phew!


Details in the spoiler:
Spoiler :

Our capital was right on top of horses, and the Malinese capital is perfectly placed to dominate the NW strip of fresh water territory. So I had to try a weenie-rush tactic.


Aim:
- Chop and whip as many chariots as I could muster and take out Mansa Musa and steal his lands before he could say, "what? The curtains?"

- Establish 3rd and 4th city in between the 2 capitals. 1 for production & Marble. 1 on the rivers for a third Great Artist farm.

- Keep the peace with the remaining 2 neighbours.

- Focus everything on getting to +250% GP points (Parthenon, N epic and Pacifism) in my culture city.

- Making every great person an Artist. The speed provided by an early great scientist, prophet or engineer never out-weighed the 4000 culture bomb. And even though I could have got a scientist earlier it would have still put the 15th GA out of reach at 2200gpp's. (So that's why no Great Library in this build.)

- Then as a secondary aim use the 4 strong cities to speed to +450% culture, from Hermitage, Free Speech, 3 Cathedrals and the 100% culture slider. Adding Caste, Merch and The Sistine to get a fat total.


Not an easy road to travel:
Used every trick in the book for the rush. Straight to Bronze. Pre-chopped all the forests and built the roads to the horses, so the second Husbandry kicked in I could finish the chops and radical whip-abuse for 7 chariots in 7-ish turns.

The Capital fell by turn #59 I think, but Mansa had got out a second city (boo!), fortunately the remainder of my attack force sacked it a few turns later (yeah!).

Sped out my first settler for Marble to get the Parthenon. Thought about going for the Stone north of my captured city, but the poor position would have diluted my GA farms. So failed to get The Pyramids.

Didn't connect to the Iron to ensure that my Hereditary Rule guys stayed at a minimum cost.

Luckily got 2 religions by spread. Made a B-line to Theocracy for Christianity, as I needed The Sis' anyway. Got the 3 Cathedrals without needing monasteries. Had to hold off on the change to Pacifism for a couple of turns though.

Took Buddhism as my primary, because Saladin founded it. With a shared religion and Mansa gone it meant I could put minimum effort into keeping the peace, having only the Egyptian Lassie to keep sweet. Bribed her with a tech every once in a while.

Ignored Drama. Didn't build a single Theatre. Got to Caste System quick enough. Kept my citizens in the capital off of the 3 production tiles and working as artists to crank out the gpp's. Therefore no unnecessary buildings in the capital after I hit Caste System.

As with my previous attempts I built a late 5th city down south. For a few extra cottages and a base from which to pump out galleys to save The Culture City from having to defend its Crabs from the Barbie fleets. As a bonus this time I got an extra workboat out to the northern Fish at Timbuktu.

With the extra health resources and some complex resource trading (got wine and spices for my Iron and cash for my old Marble) I managed to get +4 health from the Grocer building. So that made it worthwhile as I'd picked up Guilds in a trade.

Starved the Culture City for the last 16 turns to crank out a grand total of 15 Great Artist (with a little help from Tokyo and Timbuktu), for a max +60,000:culture:.

Hit Free Speech a little late because of the effort of the early rush, but with the 3 cathedrals, a couple of 1000yr old Wonders and a 23 pop city to starve with specialists I managed to scrap out 33k:culture: from the city itself.


Given a total of 93,277:culture:. :crazyeye:


I'm interested to see if anyone manages to find a way to squeeze 100K out of this challenge. If you manage it, even after the finish date, then PM me and let me know. Thanks.



Is anyone up for another challenge?

If there is interest, and no one beats 93K, I'll post one tomorrow. Let me know if you have any preferences. Total Wealth? Medium map? 1600AD finish? Prince difficulty? 2 weekends to complete?


Raiser



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Raiser, what a brilliantly played game.

Re. next challenge, tomorrow's pretty fast. Could you wait till there are a few more suggestons/ideas about the next challenge?

I like Cabert's "worlds greatest army", most level 5 units by ...AD.
 
mice said:
Raiser, what a brilliantly played game.

Re. next challenge, tomorrow's pretty fast. Could you wait till there are a few more suggestons/ideas about the next challenge?

I like Cabert's "worlds greatest army", most level 5 units by ...AD.

most level 5 units vanilla is completely different from most level 5 warlords.
In my current warlords game, i can churn out 1 level 5 unit every turn, without war :crazyeye: !
Initial idea was about warring a lot/risk management = vanilla since the common wisdom thing is it's hard to get 1 level 5 unit. I often claim it's easy, and i intend to prove it!
 
mice said:
Raiser, what a brilliantly played game.

Re. next challenge, tomorrow's pretty fast. Could you wait till there are a few more suggestons/ideas about the next challenge?

I like Cabert's "worlds greatest army", most level 5 units by ...AD.

Thank you, mice. It was a fun challenge.


Yeah, you're right. I'll leave it until Friday? Then we'll still have two weekends, ok?


I like the sound of a total wealth variant, but it might be too similar to this challenge and the third peacenik challenge in a row. (For variation; on a total wealth challenge I'd definitely pick a Pangaea map which would lessen the appeal of Great Merchant farming, as this one was all about Great Artist farming.)


Maybe a combat challenge would be a good change of pace. Three nice variants are:
- as you say, Army of Veterans (max number of level 5 units by ....AD)

- or another cabert suggestion, We Need A Hero (max xp for one unit by....AD)

- or, my fav, Snowball Fight (max number of cities by ....AD, but no producing settlers. Capturing cities only.)

Whatever challenge gets the most support I'm happy to do a bit of play testing, on thurs/fri, to find a suitable map.


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Thinking about Snowball Fight:

It would be best on a low-ish difficulty setting (Noble?), with a crowded continental map and the 'no city razing option' switched on.

- The low difficulty setting so it's not too hard to get the snowball rolling. Grow the capital take another nation's city. Then grow those two cities and pick a third target. Rinse repeat.

- The 'no city razing' option would mean you'd have to scout far and wide to find the best option for the next victim. Maybe risk spreading your nation out a bit in a vulnerable way, to get the economically strong cities.

- The crowded map and max city target, as well as the low difficulty setting, would encourage a fast momentum. A 're-build and move on' style of play. Which is a nice change of pace for those Mr Cautious-type of players. :p

- And the continental map would offer the opportunity for a player to grab the last few cities by an amphibious assault.

- The 'no settlers' rule could easily be checked on the Info screen > Stats page > 'number of settlers built = 0'.


Could be a wild warmongering challenge. :spear:




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I say hyuna capac - agressive, and the UU is relevent to the challenge but will not dominate it(as preats would), more so than kelsheiks. Plus no doubt financial will help with upkeep
 
cabert said:
In my current warlords game, i can churn out 1 level 5 unit every turn, without war :crazyeye: !

What year though? This challenge stopped at 1600AD which is probably too early for The Pentagon or Fascism or 5 self-produced Great Generals. The most experience you can get early is 3 (barracks) + 2 (stable) + 2 (Vassalage) + 2 (Theocracy) + 2N (Great Generals) = 9 + 2N. Assuming the leader isn't Charismatic, then in order for that to be 17, N must be 4.

I guess that's not a completely outrageous expectation if you're really trying to emphasize combat, but it's a lot. In my most recent Warlords game I got 5 Great Generals total by the end of the game, including the free one from Fascism. I could probably have had one more if I hadn't slowed down the combat for the space race, but I think 4 before 1600AD is an absolute maximum. This was on Epic speed, which might matter.

You could make it level 6 units which might make it reasonable to allow Charismatic. I don't think you could use a Charismatic leader for a level 5 unit challenge. You also probably don't want to use an Imperialistic leader. Game speed is a definite factor that would need to be considered.

It might be interesting to pick a somewhat unexpected leader for the challenge, sort of like you did with Tokugawa for cultural. Maybe somebody like Louis or Isabella or perhaps one of the Indians.
 
Dr Elmer Jiggle said:
What year though?
must check when i put down the second great general, but the turning point is WP.

This challenge stopped at 1600AD which is probably too early for The Pentagon or Fascism or 5 self-produced Great Generals. The most experience you can get early is 3 (barracks) + 2 (stable) + 2 (Vassalage) + 2 (Theocracy) + 2N (Great Generals) = 9 + 2N. Assuming the leader isn't Charismatic, then in order for that to be 17, N must be 4.

the leader was charismatic, so level 5 is 13xp!
All i had was
2 GG = 4XP
barracks = 3 xp
WP = 4 xp
theocracy = 2 xp.
--------------------
total = 13 xp

for mounted, i wouldn't even need the theocracy bonus (but level 5 cavs are nowhere as efficient as level 5 or even level 4 cannons: city raider!)

I even put another GG in my high food + globe theater city to draft level 2 redcoats ;) without theocracy...


I guess that's not a completely outrageous expectation if you're really trying to emphasize combat, but it's a lot. In my most recent Warlords game I got 5 Great Generals total by the end of the game, including the free one from Fascism. I could probably have had one more if I hadn't slowed down the combat for the space race, but I think 4 before 1600AD is an absolute maximum. This was on Epic speed, which might matter.

You could make it level 6 units which might make it reasonable to allow Charismatic. I don't think you could use a Charismatic leader for a level 5 unit challenge. You also probably don't want to use an Imperialistic leader. Game speed is a definite factor that would need to be considered.
It might be interesting to pick a somewhat unexpected leader for the challenge, sort of like you did with Tokugawa for cultural. Maybe somebody like Louis or Isabella or perhaps one of the Indians.

my proposition was to play vanilla = no charismatic and no GG ;)
And Gandhi would be a good candidate ;)
 
cabert said:
must check when i put down the second great general, but the turning point is WP.

Oh yeah, forgot about that, though it also tends to come fairly late. It would be useful for the final endgame push, but it wouldn't let you spew out 100 units.

but level 5 cavs are nowhere as efficient as level 5 or even level 4 cannons: city raider!

They are if all you care about is the total number of units. ;) I'm actually thinking that if you wanted to go for maximum cheese effect on Warlords, you'd want to find a path that lets you keep building some kind of cheap units. If you trade away all your metal, can you keep building warriors even after macemen are discovered? Is it possible to get to Military Tradition for West Point but keeping archers avaliable by avoiding Feudalism? I think it is. Or if you need the stable points, skip Gunpowder and Guilds and make horse archers. You could even skip Archery and make Renaissance chariots. :D

my proposition was to play vanilla = no charismatic and no GG ;)
And Gandhi would be a good candidate ;)

Yeah, I think if you wanted to do that challenge, Vanilla would be better. And it would probably keep the challenge open to a wider selection of players.
 
carl corey said:
Drat, didn't have the time to play this one. Congrats, Raiser, on winning it! :) I'll probably try it sometimes just for fun, it's quite an interesting idea. And yeah, please leave the challenge deadline with 2 weekends, I'm not able to play a lot right now.
Thanks, Carl. And yeah, 2 weekends minimum. I was thinking post on the afternoon of Friday 15th. Finish date end of Sunday 24th.

Does that sound about right to the rest of you?


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The chat seems to suggest a combat orientated challenge, so slap down a post if you'd prefer:

- 1. A stats goal - i.e. promotions gained, like Army of Veterans challenge, OR

- 2. A victories goal - i.e. number of cities taken in combat, like Snowball Fight challenge.

- 3. "I don't mind I'll try either. If I find the time what with real life keeping me away from my 'puter." :wallbash:

- 4. "Neither. I only like peaceable Civ games. Violence makes me queasy ." :old:


Thanks.


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I tried to play another one, which looked really nice, but I got attacked by Saladin, when I hadn't build any military to fight him yet. I don't really think it's possible to score more than 93K though ;)

Looking forward to do some fighting now :D

How about number of cities razed?
 
93k... wow

also with a new strat so that gets extra props :)


as for the next one, how about

*earliest elimination victory* (my warmongering skills leave much to be desired so i might learn something there) or
*5 largest cities by ... AD* or
*maximun number of vassals by ... AD* (warlords though, also requires lots of civs) or
*restricted to one city, eliminate as many other civs as you can* or
*oldschool, no renessaince techs allowed*
 
How about biggest % of pop and land by 1600AD with only 3 cities allowed? :D

Oh, -- and congrats for the 93K! :)
 
parachute4u said:
How about biggest % of pop and land by 1600AD with only 3 cities allowed? :D

disclaimer : i probably won't have time to try it anyway, so i won't be hurt if my advice isn't taken into account

But

1) biggest % of pop and land in 1600 AD doesn't seem as much fun as the previous challenges.
I mean, what "specific" strat are going to improve?
2) It's a double challenge of conquest before 1600AD (= 100%pop!) + cultural victory (with cities at enough distance, it's max %of land you can get, not 100% though)
3) There already was a %land in 1600AD challenge
4) I think the challenges should be "light" on variant rules. The fun part of it is to focus on a specific goal, not to have twisted rules.

Let Raiser choose (not necessarily one that already was proposed) the next challenge, since he did win this one.
 
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