Changes to Existing Civ's?

[mitsho]

I think it's possible that they will update the DLC civs, but only when the game has reached the full range of content. So after Brave New World. It's not too hard to create 2 version of a civ, one without expansions and one with all DLC's and Expansions. It gets complicated to update several versions, but if you don't update anymore... And let's be honest, what it otherwise would mean is that the early first civs are those that are the least adapted to the game...

That said, I don't think they will do it, why waste money on something already sold? But there will have to be 1-2 patches after the release especially if they do a quick DLC run again, so why not adjust the game a bit in there? There will be nothing groundbreaking though in any case

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I doubt they will update the DLC civs because they need to balance against vanilla and G&K and BNW. It would not be cool for them to have 3 versions of each DLC to keep track of.

 

[SamBC]

I doubt they will update the DLC civs because they need to balance against vanilla and G&K and BNW. It would not be cool for them to have 3 versions of each DLC to keep track of.

It needn't be three version of the DLC... G&K works a lot like a mod, so they can make the xpacs include the DB data to modify the civs, vanilla or DLC, appropriate to that xpac.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yeah, it's easy to change the data even if the content isn't accessed unless you downloaded it. Weren't the UUs changed to match the combat changes when G&K came out? If they did it then they can do it again.

The reason to update it is people consider DLC to be just as much a part of the game as any other Civ and would be disappointed if no efforts are made to continue to balance them.

 

[Heinage]

I didn't notice this thread before, but I had pretty much the same thoughts as the OP and started a similar thread here (but more focused on trade, Netherlands, and Arabia).

My current ideas:

Netherlands - Dutch East India Company - Retain 50% of the happiness benefits from a Luxury Resource if your last copy of it is traded away. Upon discovery of Navigation, gain 2 extra Sea Trade Routes. Trade Ships start with x promotion. (where x is some kind of promotion giving Trade units extra strength when defending)

Arabia - Trade Caravans - Caravans move at double speed and have an unlimited range (or Land Trade Routes yield 25% extra for both Civilizations involved). Oil Resources provide double quantity.

Portugal - Global Empire - 1 free Sea Trade Route for each city settled on a different continent than your capital. Great Merchants earned at double speed.

 

[codepoet]

I didn't notice this thread before, but I had pretty much the same thoughts as the OP and started a similar thread here (but more focused on trade, Netherlands, and Arabia).

My current ideas:

Netherlands - Dutch East India Company - Retain 50% of the happiness benefits from a Luxury Resource if your last copy of it is traded away. Upon discovery of Navigation, gain 2 extra Sea Trade Routes. Trade Ships start with x promotion. (where x is some kind of promotion giving Trade units extra strength when defending)

Arabia - Trade Caravans - Caravans move at double speed and have an unlimited range (or Land Trade Routes yield 25% extra for both Civilizations involved). Oil Resources provide double quantity.

Portugal - Global Empire - 1 free Sea Trade Route for each city settled on a different continent than your capital. Great Merchants earned at double speed.

Ottomans - Barbary Corsairs - Gain Double the gold from Pirating a trade route. Pay 1/3 the usual cost for naval unit maintenance. Melee Naval Units start with x promotion (where x is some kind of promotion giving these units extra strength when attacking Trade vessels)

 

[steveg700]

Also if any Civ is in need of a fix it's America. Their UA is without a doubt the least useful. Sure it's sometimes nice to know what units your opponent has hidden in that fog of war, but basically any other UA would be better. (And tile-buying? Are you kidding me?) Something to do with culture would make more sense given how America spread its culture around the globe in the 20th century.

I have serious doubts about your doubts.

The bonus sight helps during the exploration phase of the game, and it's a great tactical aid when on the offensive. Buying tiles cheaply can also be put to good use. I often snatch up tiles right away from my encroaching neighbors. Of course, I had to play it a while before I knew what I was taking for granted. These abilities aren't so attractive with today's popular trend of tiny, purely defensive, walk-the-bases-to-victory empires. But that's not what manifest desinty is about.

One thing I hope they do is fix Austria a bit. I don't mind their UA, but I don't think they should be able to PERMANENTLY remove a city-state from play; that just seems broken to me. No other civ can do this, not even by conquest (can't raze city-states). I don't think they really thought through how completely this mechanic screws up diplomatic victories. At the very least, when you conquer a former-city state which has diplo-married into Austria, you should have the option of liberating that city-state! IMO, they should give all civs the ability to diplo-marry along these lines, but give Austria a significant bonus to this ability (eg: it costs other civs 2 or 3x as much gold to diplo-marry or something).

Yeah, Austria's UA is a bit much. For 500 gold, most civ's get a settler that builds a brand new city. Austria's 500 gold can buy them a fully developed city with numerous buildings and even a copliment of workers and military units.

My preference would be that any civ can diplomatically absorb CS'es, and Austria is just a lot better at. It might be a new sping on espionage's coups, for instance.

 

[GenjiKhan]

Also if any Civ is in need of a fix it's America. Their UA is without a doubt the least useful. Sure it's sometimes nice to know what units your opponent has hidden in that fog of war, but basically any other UA would be better. (And tile-buying? Are you kidding me?) Something to do with culture would make more sense given how America spread its culture around the globe in the 20th century.

I have serious doubts about your doubts.

The bonus sight helps during the exploration phase of the game, and it's a great tactical aid when on the offensive. Buying tiles cheaply can also be put to good use. I often snatch up tiles right away from my encroaching neighbors. Of course, I had to play it a while before I knew what I was taking for granted. These abilities aren't so attractive with today's popular trend of tiny, purely defensive, walk-the-bases-to-victory empires. But that's not what manifest desinty is about.

So,America is good at early game and its UUs are supposed to compensate the lack of the utility of its UA at mid/late game . To fix this,simply debuff both their UUs and give a little buff on its UA that is more useful at middle/late game . With the new mechanics and with the changes with the existing ones,it wouldn't be that hard to find a little bonus to give to them that are more effective at mid/late game .

 

[meteo63]

Seems to me that America, given the improved culture victory of BNW, should really get a big change to their UA. It should be for an aggressive culture game, maybe even with a strong economic element that works well somehow with the Freedom ideology to match the whole American dream/capitalism thing. France maybe too if we wanna go with the Napoleonic empire-style of aggression. Not sure what other civs should get cultural changes, though.

 

[Konsti]

Babylon's UA is terrible. It is almost fully obsolete after writing, after which you have a 50% higher chance of getting scientists. Thats all, i find this very weak. Also, the UA for France is (as a few have said) also horribly underpowered, especially after Poland now, and is alos obsolete after a point in time.

 

[Gucumatz]

Babylon's UA is terrible. It is almost fully obsolete after writing, after which you have a 50% higher chance of getting scientists. Thats all, i find this very weak. Also, the UA for France is (as a few have said) also horribly underpowered, especially after Poland now, and is alos obsolete after a point in time.

If you think either of those 2 UAs are weak, you are using them wrong simply put. They consistently rank among the top UAs whenever people vote and are among the top civs in multiplayer.

Babylon won't change, France might though considering the expansion's details

 

[Calouste]

Seems to me that America, given the improved culture victory of BNW, should really get a big change to their UA. It should be for an aggressive culture game, maybe even with a strong economic element that works well somehow with the Freedom ideology to match the whole American dream/capitalism thing. France maybe too if we wanna go with the Napoleonic empire-style of aggression. Not sure what other civs should get cultural changes, though.

I think America's current UA gets quite a few indirect buffs with what we know about BNW. No more gold from river tiles makes cash tighter early in the game and acquiring luxury tiles more important. Buying tiles at half price is definitely useful there. Extra sight for land units helps with defending trade routes, and of course you find your trading partners a bit sooner. And it probably also has synergy with the new Exploration policy tree.

 

[MisterBoomBoom]

So which Civs would I like to see BNW change? I will approach this in a very simply manner. Which Civs do I rarely play because well...they lack. Here are my 8!

#1 America...Needs a little sumthin sumthin ...I rarely play as Clinton . A MAJOR stikeout for this Civ!
#2 Austria... Wanted to love it, but face it ...playing it is a laborous thing with CS as the focus.
#3 Sweden... When I did play it I dominated, But I disliked the units and it too can be laborous.
#4 Ottomans...I dislike the whole capture of enemy unit mechanic..especially a ship.
#5 Germany... See above...Panzer not powerful and too late.
#6 Gandhi... Hate everything about this civ. And Gandhi as a warmonger...is just wrong. Change to Nehru, make them a spammer and jones the unit!
#7 Aztec... Getting a special warrior unit is about as exciting as getting the Atlatlist with Pacal, Yawn...gotta do yet another early power grab.
#8 Russia...The cossak just doesn't do it for me, a shamefully conceived near worthless concept of resources (best for USA), Ever hear of a T-34 tank!?

Ok...NOW..for those Civs I DO NOT want to see touched!

#1 England...Love the units...one of my favorite civs. HANDS OFF!
#2 The BBC...Babylon, Byzantines, & Carthage. All great civs, FUN to play! Cool powerful units.
#3 Ethiopia...A power trip, U always remember how dominate your first crushing of the world was!
#4 Japan...One of my favs; even with the zero.
#5 Dutch...A different approach type Civ, rewards those that think out of the box!
#6 French...Units kick ass, and culture...Can never have enough. A perfect civ!
#7 Korea...Come on...face it, Hwacha plus science = the easiest victory there is!
#8 Egypt... He's WONDERFUL & I Love the unit! Unlike Siam (who I just despise), I don't mind squaring off against him either.

 

[whyidie]

I think for the large part all the UA's are fine in terms of balance. The only reason some seem more lackluster than others is often because its not suited to a play style you're familiar with or fond of.

You've also gotta consider them in the context of the civ as a whole, some UA's may be weaker but they are put alongside incredibly powerful UU's or UB's.

Very true. They've really done a fine job of balancing the Civs.

I'd expect only minor changes with major reactions

 

[ferretbacon]

I'd really like it if India got a full overhaul on its UA... I mean, besides being bland, it reeks of thoughtlessness. Population Growth? The UA of India is based off the fact that they have lots of kids and therefore a huge population? While it is true that India has a huge population, it is rather silly to make that their UA. I don't know enough about India to make a suggestion, but considering the long, varied history of India it shouldn't be a problem for someone knowledgeable to come up with scores of more appropriate and interesting UAs.

I think France should have an add-on after Steam Power... when the +2 stops, the second part can begin. Naturally, the second part ought to deal with artifact/great works storage and tourism. Not sure how art storage will work, but if there is a limit in each building/city, perhaps increase the limit for France.

The Netherlands certainly need an update. Their UA is named after a massive trading company, after all. If Portugal is in, then the two civs may step on each other's toes a bit, but the Dutch ought to get something like an extra sea trade route or faster cargo ship movement.

Another UA that bugs me is the Byzantines. It is powerful, to be sure, but the fact that it can be a total wash if you fail to found a religion is pretty terrible. I think there needs to be an adjustment so that you're more likely to get a religion or at least an add-on that gives a small effect so that the UA isn't completely useless in the worst case scenario. Suggestion for the former are +1 from your capital after Pottery is researched or simply begin the game with Pottery. I can't really think of a suggestion for the latter, but just something small. If you get a religion, it won't be powerful enough to make the Byzantines OP, and if you don't get a religion it acts as a small consolation. Edit: Perhaps Byzantine cities take reduced damage? Not more combat strength, just reduced damage. This would at least provide the Byzantines with some sort of UA benefit if they failed to found a religion, but wouldn't be a 'game breaking' UA when combined with an extra religious belief.

Arabia, as others have pointed out, would be the perfect candidate (of existing civilizations) for a bonus to land trade routes. Perhaps an extra land route, faster caravan speed, or the ability for caravans to defend themselves against attacks.

 

[Vandal Thorne]

I didn't notice this thread before, but I had pretty much the same thoughts as the OP and started a similar thread here (but more focused on trade, Netherlands, and Arabia).

My current ideas:

Netherlands - Dutch East India Company - Retain 50% of the happiness benefits from a Luxury Resource if your last copy of it is traded away. Upon discovery of Navigation, gain 2 extra Sea Trade Routes. Trade Ships start with x promotion. (where x is some kind of promotion giving Trade units extra strength when defending)

Arabia - Trade Caravans - Caravans move at double speed and have an unlimited range (or Land Trade Routes yield 25% extra for both Civilizations involved). Oil Resources provide double quantity.

Portugal - Global Empire - 1 free Sea Trade Route for each city settled on a different continent than your capital. Great Merchants earned at double speed.

Ottomans - Barbary Corsairs - Gain Double the gold from Pirating a trade route. Pay 1/3 the usual cost for naval unit maintenance. Melee Naval Units start with x promotion (where x is some kind of promotion giving these units extra strength when attacking Trade vessels)

These would be good changes.

 

[Calouste]

I didn't notice this thread before, but I had pretty much the same thoughts as the OP and started a similar thread here (but more focused on trade, Netherlands, and Arabia).

My current ideas:

Netherlands - Dutch East India Company - Retain 50% of the happiness benefits from a Luxury Resource if your last copy of it is traded away. Upon discovery of Navigation, gain 2 extra Sea Trade Routes. Trade Ships start with x promotion. (where x is some kind of promotion giving Trade units extra strength when defending)

Arabia - Trade Caravans - Caravans move at double speed and have an unlimited range (or Land Trade Routes yield 25% extra for both Civilizations involved). Oil Resources provide double quantity.

Portugal - Global Empire - 1 free Sea Trade Route for each city settled on a different continent than your capital. Great Merchants earned at double speed.

The Netherlands already get their UU at Navigation, so I doubt they will be getting part of their UA at the same tech as well.

 

[JanghanHong]

Babylon's UA is terrible. It is almost fully obsolete after writing, after which you have a 50% higher chance of getting scientists. Thats all, i find this very weak. Also, the UA for France is (as a few have said) also horribly underpowered, especially after Poland now, and is alos obsolete after a point in time.

I can't tell if this is satire or not.

 

[codepoet]

The big one that needs a change in my view is Polynesia.

There ability is fun to play with, but against it's just annoying. I wonder how it would work with the trade route stuff being added (and not be too large an advantage).

Specifically I've never liked their ability to embark so early. I like using borders to route scouting around and their trait circumvents that mechanic.

 

[Louis XXIV]

If you think either of those 2 UAs are weak, you are using them wrong simply put. They consistently rank among the top UAs whenever people vote and are among the top civs in multiplayer.

Babylon won't change, France might though considering the expansion's details

I think France would be a logical civ to go from defensive (culture) to offensive (tourism) at Steam Power. It would fit their history well and would be a logical switching point in time.

In fact, an argument could be made that any civ that gets culture-related bonuses should get changes because they might only be useful defensively in the future and will decline in importance when going towards a victory.