[RD] Charlie Kirk assassinated

[danjuno]

There is a good article in the NYTs today about Kirk's wife. It is quite long. The most interesting gem from it is how Trump met Erika Kirk (before they were married).

For Erika Kirk, a Husband’s Life Cut Short by Violence He Seemed to Foresee​

In an interview, the wife of the conservative activist Charlie Kirk said she had implored him to wear a bulletproof vest. But she sees divine work in his death.

For Erika Kirk, a Husband’s Life Cut Short by Violence He Seemed to Foresee

In an interview, the wife of the conservative activist Charlie Kirk said she had implored him to wear a bulletproof vest. But she sees divine work in his death.

www.nytimes.com

Side note about the 2012 Miss USA pageant: For the first time, a question was solicited from Twitter for the final question asked of one of the five finalists. That question picked by the pageant organizers - "Would you feel it would be fair that a transgender woman wins the Miss USA title over a natural-born woman?" - was answered by the winner, Culpo

Kinda hard to square that with him changing the subject to the new ballroom on live TV.

 

[Kaitzilla]

*Stadium full of cheering people*

"Charlie is having serious heavenly fomo right now"

They are working their way up to Erika Kirk and President Trump now I think.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/charlie-kirk-funeral-09-21-25

Mikey McCoy, who is Kirk’s former chief of staff, drew one of the largest cheers from the crowd so far with a quote from a somewhat unlikely source: the Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard.

“The tyrant dies and his rule is over; the martyr dies and his rule begins,” he said, to loud cheers from the stadium.

*bold by me

 

[Gori the Grey]

Just watched Steven Miller.

Nothing less than the fate of Western Civilization is at stake. It was mostly about "the enemies," and in fact mostly addressed to those enemies. Very we/you.

 

[Evie]

No martyr has ever reigned. Only pretenders appropriating the martyr's suffering to build their own power.

Even that martyr, whose message became whatever Paul wanted it to be.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Not everyone is so us/them. Marco Rubio's is just a tribute to what he found admirable in Kirk.

I'm kind of interested in which path Trump will take.

Hesgeth: we have not just a political war, not just a cultural war, but a spiritual war. (That's not the dominant tone of the whole speech, but it does give the kind of the mentality in which people are presenting things)

Very religious, almost every speech.

RFK Jr.'s had some nice stuff in it about mourning generally; says worse than death would be losing our constitutional rights. (Maybe wanna tell your boss that?)

Don Jr starts with an imitation of Don Sr. (telling him, Jr, to rein things in on social media). Goes on to take a jab at Hilary and Harris.

Vance starts with "They." Then mostly a tribute to Kirk. Then, He was taken from us by those.

Very religious, as I said. Very Christian, specifically. Many of the speakers can speak in those terms convincingly. Very specific articles of Christian belief, not just bland platitudes. Can't imagine Trump going that way. Don Jr wasn't convincing when he went down that path. By convincing I mean, sounds like it's part of their daily life, not just trotted out for this event.

Widow forgives the shooter.

Almost feels like they should stop with her, rather than have Trump "outrank" her. In this matter, he doesn't.

Trump: Martyr for American freedom. I've been listening for what he is a martyr for. "Stadium packed with rafters of people." He calls it a revival, and many have; that's the mood. One of the last things he said to me is "Please, sir, save Chicago." Tomorrow he will announce that they have an answer to autism. "Radical left lunatics." Charlie would have just called them "the left," but I just can't. We had a country that was dead one year ago and now it is the hottest country in the world. He didn't hate his opponents, but that's not me, I hate my opponents. Paid agitators (if they all carry the same signs at a protest). Was an attack on our entire nation. People leaving during Trump's speech. Trump hopes killer will get death penalty. References Kimmel. We want God back in our beautiful USofA. We want God back. Unfocused. Bit of a ramble. No central idea. Not much fire. Certainly not throughout, just brief flashes.

I don't get the sense Trump is himself interested in doing much with Charlie. From the entire rest of the program (end hour or so that I watched) the theme was Christian Nationalism (as Bird has been stressing in this thread). So if someone was interested in making him the martyr to Christian Nationalism, they'd have their guy. But since Trump's heart is not in that, I don't think he really sees an angle to exploit. Kinda going through the motions, I felt.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Trump: Martyr for American freedom

He might be a martyr, but he needs a miracle to become a saint.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1969551427648569633

I want to address some of the discussion about the lack of an exit wound with Charlie. I’m usually not interested in delving into most of this kind of online chatter, and I apologize this is somewhat graphic, but in this case, the fact that there wasn’t an exit wound is probably another miracle, and I want people to know.I just spoke with the surgeon who worked on Charlie in the hospital…He said the bullet “absolutely should have gone through, which is very very normal for a high powered, high velocity round. I’ve seen wounds from this caliber many times and they always just go through everything. This would have taken a moose or two down, an elk, etc.”But it didn’t go through. Charlie’s body stopped it.I mentioned to his doctor that there were dozens of staff, students, and special guests standing directly behind Charlie on the other side of the tent, and he replied:“It was an absolute miracle that someone else didn’t get killed.”“His bone was so healthy and the density was so so impressive that he’s like the man of steel. It should have just gone through and through. It likely would have killed those standing behind him too.”In the end, the coroner did find the bullet just beneath the skin.Even in death, Charlie managed to save the lives of those around him.Remarkable. Miraculous.

 

[Lexicus]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1969811439239233571

 

[Gori the Grey]

Yeah, his heart was not in it. Not any authentic affection for Kirk, but also not any "this is our rallying point for my fascist takeover."

By sheer word count, it probably focused most on Kirk, but it looped around to how much money tariffs are bringing in, how we're going to announce the cure for autism tomorrow. etc. etc.

Oh, by the way. Given the order of speakers, look for Vance Trump 2028.

(With the usual provisos: if we still have elections. Tra la la la la.)

 

[caketastydelish]

My definition of "martyr" means they were killed by someone who opposed them, so we should fight against the political or ideological views of the killer... But if the person who murdered him was far right, not far left, then Kirk becoming a "martyr" would mean fighting against far right extremism, if someone with those views pulled the trigger on him.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Charlie kirk WAS far right

 

[Gori the Grey]

That's not usually how the term is used, cake. It means "witness" (in an old sense of that word that maybe still lingers in the phrase "witness to a belief.") Someone who is an outspoken proponent of a particular belief system (and especially to the extent of being willing to die for it). So 1) it is not defined primarily in terms of death (you can witness to a belief in ways even shy of dying for it) and 2) it is not defined primarily in terms of the people who oppose you, but in terms of your own belief system. The Christian martyrs are not defined in terms of the fact that Romans (initially) killed them, but that they died professing Christianity.

To be a martyr, then, in the generally accepted sense of the term, you have to proclaim some set of beliefs fervently, and be willing even to go to your death on behalf of them. That's why I was so interested to hear what they think he is a martyr for. Free speech was one option. And a few speakers mentioned that. But the strong message that came through the event was that he was being regarded as a Christian martyr: for believing in, and working toward, America being a Christian nation.

Literally zero mention (in the last hour and a half of the event) of the glories of freedom of worship: how "Sikh and Sufi, Mormon and Muslim all find a welcoming home in our great nation." Rather "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior. He gloriously became human and lived among us. Then died for our sins." There is one religion, the right religion, and Charlie tirelessly promoted it.

In fact, that's the main thing I learned about him from the event. His own motivations were not primarily political, but religious. He was happiest when one of his visits to a campus got some student to get baptized or start attending church, and only secondarily if they became a Republican voter (though he thought the second would naturally follow from the first). He operated kind of like an old-time revivalist preacher.

 

[caketastydelish]

Stop and think for a moment why I
A) knew you were going to reply with that
B) why that isn't the comeback you think it is
C) the actual words I used and what I am literally saying, and not just assuming a therefore I claim the contrapositive and therefore your criticism of the contrapositive is valid.

I can make this simpler.

They were left-wing dictators and strongmen. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Sarin]

He might be a martyr, but he needs a miracle to become a saint.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1969551427648569633

A few days ago, I read an analysis by supposed firearms expert some time ago indicating that Kirk wore a light bulletproof vest, and in fact the bullet clipped the edge of the vest's steel plate and ricocheted upwards into the neck. In doing so, it would lose a portion of energy and start to tumble, causing even greater wound than normally, since at such low distance, a full powered rifle bullet would have gone clean through.

 

[Gori the Grey]

he’s like the man of steel

Saint Kal-El

 

[Ordnael]

If you can access the article, I suggest you do, the sheer scale of the event testified by the photos impressed me. Sometimes I forget how big the US goes for their things!

At Charlie Kirk memorial, Trump rallies MAGA against political opponents​

At Charlie Kirk memorial, Trump rallies MAGA against political opponents

Trump hailed slain conservative activist Charlie Kirk as a "martyr for American freedom".

www.reuters.com

• Summary
• Security tight amid turmoil after Kirk's assassination
• Stadium with capacity for 63,000 was full
• Wife says Kirk died without regrets

GLENDALE, Arizona, Sept 21 (Reuters) - President Donald Trump hailed slain conservative activist Charlie Kirk as a "martyr for American freedom" on Sunday and vowed at his memorial service to carry on his work, while again accusing what he called the "radical left" for Kirk's murder.
"The violence comes largely from the left," Trump said without citing any evidence, in remarks that downplayed political violence from the right and often turned starkly partisan in contrast to the more solemn tone that most other speakers adopted.

Trump has been blaming the left for the deadly shooting before a suspect was even detained. His messaging reflected the dual nature of Kirk's memorial, which had the feel of a religious revival mixed with a "Make America Great Again" rally.
The memorial, organized by Kirk's conservative youth advocacy organization Turning Point USA, drew tens of thousands of mourners dressed in red, white and blue who filled State Farm Stadium in Glendale, Arizona.
Kirk's friends and fellow conservatives praised him as an inspirational Christian who founded a political movement they promised to nurture.
His wife, Erika, who has taken the helm of Turning Point, delivered an emotional tribute to her late husband, looking up at the heavens and mouthing, "I love you," before speaking about his devotion to Christianity, his family and his activism. The Kirks have two young children.

"I want all of you to know, while Charlie died far too early, he was also ready to die," she said. "He left this world without regrets. He did 100% of what he could every day."
She also offered forgiveness to the 22-year-old man who has been charged with Kirk's murder, citing the Bible's account that Jesus Christ urged his followers to forgive his tormentors while on the cross.
"My husband Charlie wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life," she said, before adding tearfully, as the crowd applauded solemnly.
Some political figures cast Kirk's death as a pivotal moment in the conservative movement, exhorting followers to finish the work he began in sometimes aggressive language.
"We will carry Charlie and Erika in our heart every single day, and fight that much harder because of what you did to us," Stephen Miller, the powerful White House adviser, said in a fiery speech. "You have no idea the dragon you have awakened. You have no idea how determined we will be to save this civilization, to save the West, to save the republic."

VICE PRESIDENT, OTHER CABINET MEMBERS SPEAK​

The memorial featured a number of leading Christian rock artists, giving it the air at times of a megachurch Sunday service. As music filled the arena, some men and women closed their eyes and swayed with their arms in the air, tears rolling down their cheeks.
The arena, which normally has a capacity of 63,000, appeared completely full. Crowds of people, many wearing MAGA attire, arrived before dawn to secure seats inside the stadium, where they encountered metal detectors amid tight security.


Item 10 of 10 People gesture during a memorial service for slain conservative commentator Charlie Kirk at State Farm Stadium in Glendale, Arizona, U.S., September 21, 2025. REUTERS/Brian Snyder
[10/10]People gesture during a memorial service for slain conservative commentator Charlie Kirk at State Farm Stadium in Glendale, Arizona, U.S., September 21, 2025. REUTERS/Brian Snyder Purchase Licensing Rights
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Other speakers included Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, more evidence of Kirk's political influence.
Vice President JD Vance credited Kirk with helping get Trump elected last year by mobilizing young voters.
"Our whole administration is here, but not just because we love Charlie as a friend, even though we did, but because we know we wouldn’t be here without him,” Vance said.
Trump's speech was the most openly divisive, repeatedly attacking the "radical left" and leaning into campaign-style grievances. While some speakers, including Miller, Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, and conservative influencer Jack Posobiec, veered into politics, most kept their remarks focused on honoring Kirk without assigning blame.
At one point, the president contrasted Kirk's support for public debate - he often challenged students with opposing views to "prove me wrong" at college events - with his own scorched-earth politics.
"He did not hate his opponents," Trump said. That's where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponents."
Following his speech, Trump brought Erika Kirk onstage, who embraced him as "America the Beautiful" played over the stadium speakers.

RISING FEARS OF VIOLENCE​

Kirk, 31, was killed with a single bullet as he answered an audience member's question at a campus event in Utah. A 22-year-old Utah technical college student has been charged with Kirk's murder. Investigators are still probing for a motive, which remains unclear. They have been scrutinizing his alleged texts to a friend and messages engraved into four bullet casings. Experts have said they could reference left- or right-leaning groups.
Civil rights groups criticized Kirk for rhetoric, pointing to numerous examples they described as racist, anti-immigrant, transphobic and misogynistic. His backers say he was a defender of conservative values and a champion of free speech.
His death has raised fears about the growing frequency of U.S. political violence across the ideological spectrum, while also deepening partisan divides.
Trump's speech on Sunday is unlikely to quell fears from critics that he intends to use Kirk's murder to intensify a crackdown on his political opponents.
During her remarks, Gabbard tied Kirk's killing to what she described as a historical pattern in which "political fanatics" eventually turn to violence to defend their ideals.
"They kill and terrorize their opponents, hoping to silence them," she said. "But in this evil that we have experienced - that Charlie faced - their flawed ideology is exposed, because by trying to silence Charlie, his voice is now louder than ever."
Last week, Walt Disney's (DIS.N)
, opens new tab ABC network pulled, opens new tab late-night talk-show host Jimmy Kimmel off the air after Trump's head of the Federal Communications Commission threatened the network over comments Kimmel made about Kirk's death that some conservatives found offensive.

The information age sure is something to behold!
I don't think Jesus Christ had anyway near 63k people following him before he ascended to heaven.
There might be a new sect of evangelicals brewing, Charlie might be elevated beyond martyr...he might become a prophet!
I am astounded and terrified as it's becoming more and more evident that Charlie's message sounds much different from the "unconditional love" Jesus Christ preached.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Trump will never change, but Kirk’s death shines a path to MAGA’s future​

Stephen Collinson

US President Donald Trump embraces Erika Kirk during a memorial service for her husband, slain conservative commentator Charlie Kirk, at State Farm Stadium in Arizona on Sunday.
Carlos Barria/Reuters


President Donald Trump wants the world to understand that Charlie Kirk’s killing will not temper him or induce him to mend the country’s divides.
Kirk’s memorial service in Arizona on Sunday was a remarkable hourslong eulogy for a life cruelly ended much too young, a glimpse at the future of the MAGA movement, and an unabashed religious revival.

It provided a moment that the country will long remember — an astonishing speech in which the assassinated 31-year-old’s widow forgave his killer.
But Trump bluntly and deliberately signaled that forgiveness and unity were for others, and that he’d use Kirk’s assassination to intensify his efforts to impose personal power even more ruthlessly.
He therefore confirmed that the immediate political consequence of Kirk’s shocking assassination will be more political discord.

The president described the Turning Point USA founder as “a missionary with a noble spirit and a great, great purpose.”
“He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them,” Trump said. But in a moment of brazen self-awareness that epitomized his presidency, he then broke from the script. “That’s where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent.” Trump went on, “And I don’t want the best for them.” Trump seemed to almost apologize to Erika Kirk. But it was a moment when couldn’t stop himself. Or didn’t want to, so he could remain true to himself.


More here:

https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/22/politics/trump-kirk-vance-funeral-analysis

No one familiar with Trump’s conduct over the last decade will have been surprised that his speech that was awash in gratitude for Kirk was also laced with his own political preoccupations. At one point, he even previewed a White House announcement on autism on Monday.

Trump issued fresh warnings that he’d respond to Kirk’s assassination with a crackdown on “radical” left-wing groups he accuses of fomenting violence against conservatives. He lashed out at the media and progressives, promised to double down on crime crackdowns, and even returned to his false obsession that the 2020 election was stolen.

His tone jarred with much of the rest of the memorial service, with the exception of the equally bleak speech by his top policy adviser, Stephen Miller.

The country might have hoped for more from Trump. Many lawmakers are scared to campaign in public after Kirk’s death and other political violence, which has targeted the president and several Democrats in the past few years. Millions of people who didn’t support Trump feel threatened by his presidency.

But by ostentatiously stating how he differs from Kirk — who sought to engage his opponents respectfully and who prized free speech under the First Amendment — Trump made it clear he wanted Americans to perceive something about himself. He has never made a pretense of being a leader for all Americans, as most of his predecessors have — even if they didn’t follow through.

Trump’s frankness might have disappointed some of his fellow Republicans and many outside the party. But no one could say it was a surprise. Many conservatives likely dwelled most on his generous words about Kirk and have long made their peace with his personality.

A fascinating glimpse into the evolving MAGA movement​

Until Trump spoke, Kirk’s memorial provided a fascinating MRI of the Make America Great Again movement and potential new directions for modern conservatism.

It showed exactly why Trump won the election last year. And it showed how much the loss of Kirk — and his skill in broadening the MAGA coalition and uniting disparate political strains into a winning movement — will be missed in the years ahead.

While the pain of Kirk’s loss was evident among tens of thousands of mourners, there was also a sense that his followers are gathering, as Turning Point USA steels itself to become a mightier force forged from the martyrdom of its founding hero.

Most interestingly, this was a rare MAGA event involving Trump that was not exclusively about the president. It therefore hinted at the potential evolution of populist conservatism after the president has left the political stage.

 

[Lexicus]

an astonishing speech in which the assassinated 31-year-old’s widow forgave his killer.

This is QED proof he wasn't a lefty lol

who sought to engage his opponents respectfully

Lie! Obvious and shameful lie!

It showed exactly why Trump won the election last year. And it showed how much the loss of Kirk — and his skill in broadening the MAGA coalition and uniting disparate political strains into a winning movement — will be missed in the years ahead.

This is such BS, polling before he died showed that the people who liked him most were boomers, he was like 40 points underwater with Gen Z.

 

[Gori the Grey]

But in a moment of brazen self-awareness that epitomized his presidency, he then broke from the script. “That’s where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent.” Trump went on, “And I don’t want the best for them.” Trump seemed to almost apologize to Erika Kirk. But it was a moment when couldn’t stop himself. Or didn’t want to, so he could remain true to himself.

So this was the bit that I wanted to comment about.

In her speech Erika Kirk forgave the shooter. People who aren't favorably disposed toward Kirk, her, Christians, the right, etc. will find plenty of grounds to regard it with cynicism, skepticism, dismissal. I won't try to argue anyone out of that view. But I don't hold it. I think it was genuine and I think it was admirable. My reason for feeling that way is just that she offered the forgiveness in as public a forum as one can imagine, no backsies, and there's nothing in particular to motivate it besides her own commitment to the Christian teaching that we should forgive those who harm us and love our enemies. It would be difficult for anyone, I should think, only ten days after someone's having murdered their spouse, to even phonily mouth such a message in such a forum.

For any who did find it a moment of authentic commitment to the most demanding of Christ's ethical teachings, you didn't have to wait more than ten minutes for Trump to take a s--- on it.

And I want to take a moment to say exactly the form that that took, because I think it's an illustration of his utter spiritual depravity. It involved the quote above. He said it just as it reads there and it was the single most impassioned statement he made on any topic in his long rambling speech. I heard opponents, plural. "I hate my opponents. And I don't want what's best for them." And then (the quote above leaves it out) "I hate them." He did then half apologize to Erika for that sentiment. Of course he didn't mean that apology, but there's a reason he mentioned her at that point.

His move was this. (I think it's instinctual rather than deliberate.) To set the two up as simple, equally-weighted alternatives. Sure you can love your enemy, as we heard earlier, but you can also hate them. That's another possibility. Pick whichever of the two you want, really, since they're each a viable possibility. You know, nothing to distinguish them really. Choice A or Choice B.

This Christian, Christian, Christian event had had a moment that one could categorize expressive of Christianity's actual moral code: love your enemy. And Trump just wants to make sure everyone feels permission to hate their enemy if they'd rather do that, because, you know, that's cool too. Casting moral poles as moral equivalents.

One last thing: my prediction about Charlie Kirk going forward. I don't think he's going to serve as a rallying cry for anything on the right. I don't think he's going to become a Horst Wessel. They don't have a focused message about what he's supposed to stand for. I predict he's just going to become an argumentative trump card. Any time people are arguing about which party is worse, the right will end the discussion with "Look, our side doesn't murder its political opponents, 'mkay?"

 

[Hygro]

They were left-wing dictators and strongmen. I'm not sure what you mean.

A square is always rectangle but a rectangle is oft not a square.

 

[Birdjaguar]

This Christian, Christian, Christian event had had a moment that one could categorize expressive of Christianity's actual moral code: love your enemy. And Trump just wants to make sure everyone feels permission to hate their enemy if they'd rather do that, because, you know, that's cool too. Casting moral poles as moral equivalents.

Evangelical, Evangelical, Evangelical Christian event....

Evangelicals are Christian, but not all Christians are evangelicals.

I think the distinction is important.