Check your privileges

[Timsup2nothin]

The problem with listening to 'analysis' from people who give nothing but the knee jerk dim bulb conservative party line...and don't even understand that:

The problem...

Never mind, problem solved.

 

[bernie14]

I'm in that 20%, and I assure you that if you think taxes are going to stifle ambition, then you have no idea how ambition works.

Should achievement beget wealth which begets privileges? Sure. But that line has been perverted. It is parents' wealth that largely determines one's wealth, and the wealthy have purposely set it up that way.

There is no meritocracy in America; if you believe ambition and talent is what ought to bring one wealth and privilege, then we need to tear down those barriers, man.

Ok, so to summarize, we agree that this "check your privilege" thing is a call for wealth redistribution and we disagee on what needs to be done to make a better society

 

[civver_764]

But why? What possible reason could you have for this belief other than an irrational prejudice against burger flipping?

The problem here is that if everyone flipped burgers society wouldn't be in a state where it could finance everyone flipping burgers.

 

[bernie14]

Actually I'm more of a believer in sliding over the counter and punching them in the face, myself.

So which lowers the punching threshold more, location or level of jerkness? i would assume the latter.....but then again, a choice location may provide a good opportunity to clock a lesser jerk

 

[Borachio]

The problem with raw capitalism.

Capitalists pay their workers the least amount possible.

Capitalists compete with each other.

Capitalists now have to pay their workers less than the least amount possible.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So which lowers the punching threshold more, location or level of jerkness? i would assume the latter.....but then again, a choice location may provide a good opportunity to clock a lesser jerk

I'm generally game to clock a jerk anywhere I have a good shot at getting away with it without them hitting me back with the "civilized peaceful man" weapon of choice; an armed thug that will completely ruin my life for them. I've clocked a jerk in a fast food place, but I was an anonymous customer, not on the clock. I'm still very popular in that Taco Bell.

 

[Lexicus]

The problem here is that if everyone flipped burgers society wouldn't be in a state where it could finance everyone flipping burgers.

Neither can we build a society that functions without any burger flippers, so it seems like we'd better pay burger flippers enough to make a living, at least until monkeys or robots can be trained to do the job...

 

[Bamspeedy]

I can't believe people believe people think SS should just disappear if basic income was enacted.

Basic income: $7,000 been touted on this thread.

Average SS yearly benefit: $16,848. And note, that is average.
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2016/12/16/americans-average-social-security-benefit-at-age-6.aspx
Those that worked for more years get more than those that didn't work, worked less, or worked just enough to meet the minimum requirements.

You want the retirees to go from whatever they were making before retirement down to just 7k a year?

 

[rah]

I'm generally game to clock a jerk anywhere I have a good shot at getting away with it without them hitting me back with the "civilized peaceful man" weapon of choice; an armed thug that will completely ruin my life for them. I've clocked a jerk in a fast food place, but I was an anonymous customer, not on the clock. I'm still very popular in that Taco Bell.

While we don't always agree on things, you're certainly someone that i would enjoy going out for a drink with.

 

[metalhead]

Ok, so to summarize, we agree that this "check your privilege" thing is a call for wealth redistribution and we disagee on what needs to be done to make a better society

Not necessarily. There are plenty of non-federal reforms that would help. Like if colleges decided to end preferences for legacy applicants, if states decided on fair funding formulas for public schools, etc.

Then there are plenty of non-wealth related reforms, such as stricter enforcement of rules against redlining, and housing and lending discrimination.

More drastic measures like basic income and affordable higher ed are necessary as well, but it's not a magic bullet. A lot of other things like I've mentioned above need to happen as well.

 

[bernie14]

I'm generally game to clock a jerk anywhere I have a good shot at getting away with it without them hitting me back with the "civilized peaceful man" weapon of choice; an armed thug that will completely ruin my life for them. I've clocked a jerk in a fast food place, but I was an anonymous customer, not on the clock. I'm still very popular in that Taco Bell.

so location, location, location

While we don't always agree on things, you're certainly someone that i would enjoy going out for a drink with.

I can image going out for drinks with Tim would be akin to rock climbing. ..unique, exhilarating, fun.....but one wrong move and you may end up battered and bloody

Not necessarily. There are plenty of non-federal reforms that would help. Like if colleges decided to end preferences for legacy applicants, if states decided on fair funding formulas for public schools, etc.

Then there are plenty of non-wealth related reforms, such as stricter enforcement of rules against redlining, and housing and lending discrimination.

More drastic measures like basic income and affordable higher ed are necessary as well, but it's not a magic bullet. A lot of other things like I've mentioned above need to happen as well.

Much room for compromise. ...there is hope for us yet

 

[civver_764]

Neither can we build a society that functions without any burger flippers, so it seems like we'd better pay burger flippers enough to make a living, at least until monkeys or robots can be trained to do the job...

Sure we can, people just need to flip their own burgers.

The problem with raw capitalism.

Capitalists pay their workers the least amount possible.

Capitalists compete with each other.

Capitalists now have to pay their workers less than the least amount possible.

Competition leads them to pay workers more, not less.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Sure we can, people just need to flip their own burgers.

This still implies you can't have a functioning society without burger consumption. The vegans won't be happy with this

 

[Zelig]

If your house catches fire, it isn't less on fire because you're white.

Sure, but my house is up to code, so escape would be easy, my physical goods are insured (and I've got an itemized list of everything I own, with receipts) and my digital goods are backed up.

My house burning to the ground would be just a temporary inconvenience.

Shorter work weeks are not the answer. We don't need anything else that will make us less competitive globally and adding that kind of expense certainly won't help.

I doubt that a shorter work week would hurt global competitiveness. Working less correlates to greater productivity.

Here's that "woven in" sense of superiority. Go work in a fast food place, encounter a steady stream of jerks letting you know how superior they are since they have a "demanding" job to cry the blues about and figure you're paid to be a dumping ground and make them feel better about themselves, and then get back to me about how 'undemanding' it is.

Interacting with people in retail makes me feel bad.

The problem with basic income:

1. Give everybody $20000.
2. Raise taxes on rich people and corporations to finance it.
3. Corporations raise the price of their goods, $20000 is now only worth $18000.
4. Give everybody $2000 more, raise taxes more.
5. Rinse and repeat.

This is equally applicable to any income. You're describing inflation.

 

[civver_764]

This is equally applicable to any income. You're describing inflation.

Yep but this income especially exacerbates the problem because it always goes along with increased government spending, which means increased taxes or borrowing and printing more money.

 

[rah]

I doubt that a shorter work week would hurt global competitiveness. Working less correlates to greater productivity.

We're talking total output, not necessarily greater productivity. A person working one day a week can't compete in terms of output with someone working five. Yes, an exaggeration but one that demonstrates there are limits. I'd want to see your studies that show the total output. It doesn't take much to be a loser in global terms.

 

[Senethro]

Yah and some people argued that we couldn't have child labor laws forbidding 12 hour days for the under 14s or else the money would get sad but somehow we managed.

A basic income and societal attitudes towards it needs to be sorted out before the first time that 5% of the workforce is automated out of employment.

 

[Lexicus]

Yep but this income especially exacerbates the problem because it always goes along with increased government spending, which means increased taxes or borrowing and printing more money.

No, it doesn't. This explanation doesn't even make any sense - the question here is whether the extra spending will lead to an increase in real production, and certainly according to sound economic theory giving money to poor people will do exactly that by increasing consumption and thus investment and production.

A person working one day a week can't compete in terms of output with someone working five.

This is obviously false as an unqualified statement. A person working with a backhoe can do more in a few hours than a person with a shovel can in five days.

 

[rah]

changing the definition. There was no caveat that their tools would be different. The comparison was made on time only.

Working less correlates to greater productivity.

 

[Lexicus]

changing the definition. There was no caveat that their tools would be different. The comparison was made on time only.

Right, and my point is technological advance may make it possible for someone in, say, 2025 working one day a week to match or beat the output of someone working a five-day week in 2017. But what you quoted presumably is referring to the fact that numerous studies have demonstrated a four-day workweek would increase productivity, and I think total output as well though I'm not totally sure about that.