Chick-Fil-A Backs Down Then Backs Up

@Lucy

Your entire post is a great example of using stats to prove anything. The factual point remains that the corporation has an extremely low rate of employee turnover and of harassment claims (of all types) which is precisely opposite of what Form (and you apparently) allege.

So what we're looking at here is a company that strongly suggests that they wouldn't hire someone they found to be gay and then says straight-up that they'd fire an employee found to be gay.

The part is bold is a straight up lie. In nothing regarding this corporation does it say such a thing. In fact, the companies official position contrary to what you just alledged is this:

The Chick-fil-A culture and service tradition in our Restaurants is to treat every person with honor, dignity and respect –regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender.

That's directly from their website and is (again) directly opposite of what you allege.

Now, I'm not asserting that Chick-fil-A illegally discriminates against gay employees.

You dont think you are implying that by posting all that crap? :confused:

Wow.

I am only asserting that Chick-fil-A said it discriminates against gay employees,

Its never said this, and in fact is about the most untruthful thing you've said.

and that they can't be sued for doing that in at least 75% of their stores.

Even if you are correct that leaves at least 25% (well over 400 stores) that can be. So....where are all the lawsuits?

What's that thing about evidence and absence?

See above.
 
Your entire post is a great example of using stats to prove anything. The factual point remains that the corporation has an extremely low rate of employee turnover and of harassment claims (of all types) which is precisely opposite of what Form (and you apparently) allege.
Again, I haven't "alleged" anything like that. That is just the usual strawman instead of addressing the real issues.

The bottom line is that Dan Cathy and CFA have been engaging in the support of homophobic organizations while creating a corporate culture which is based on their own wacky religious beliefs. While they can apparently get away with that sort of behavior in the "red states", especially the South, they are finding they must change their public persona now that they wish to expand to states with far better and far less discriminatory business ethics.

CFA has literally ruined the public perception of their company recently. Their brand index used to be much higher than the typcal fast food restaurant, and now it is not. Now they are in damage control mode by having to retract much of their public stance while trying their best not to piss off their religious right base.
 
Chick Fila A is enjoying record profits, is still expanding, and came out of this whole affair the victim. We can now add to that demonstrated it is one of the best companies to work for in regards to not being harassed or discriminated against for anything.

Again, the face of this whole incident is some douche liberal wanna be crusader harassing a sweet polite drive through worker.
 
Your entire post is a great example of using stats to prove anything. The factual point remains that the corporation has an extremely low rate of employee turnover and of harassment claims (of all types) which is precisely opposite of what Form (and you apparently) allege.

Harassment claims "of all types" has yet to be substantiated meaningfully. You should draw a distinction between harassment based on other nontransient qualities and homosexuality; the latter is the significant exception we're focusing on.

To wit, you need to demonstrate that Chick-fil-A doesn't harass homosexuals more than the "average." And no, a blanket "all types" does not work here. It's too broad and, as Lucy showed, too inaccurate to work.
 
@Lucy

Your entire post is a great example of using stats to prove anything. The factual point remains that the corporation has an extremely low rate of employee turnover and of harassment claims (of all types) which is precisely opposite of what Form (and you apparently) allege.

So what we're looking at here is a company that strongly suggests that they wouldn't hire someone they found to be gay and then says straight-up that they'd fire an employee found to be gay.

The part is bold is a straight up lie. In nothing regarding this corporation does it say such a thing. In fact, the companies official position contrary to what you just alledged is this:

The Chick-fil-A culture and service tradition in our Restaurants is to treat every person with honor, dignity and respect –regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender.
That's directly from their website and is (again) directly opposite of what you allege.

I am only asserting that Chick-fil-A said it discriminates against gay employees,
Its never said this, and in fact is about the most untruthful thing you've said.

I've said nothing about employee turnover or harassment claims. Employee turnover is low, sure, I'm not interested in that. I don't know about harassment claims and I don't give a crap what Forma alleges. The only thing I've proved with stats is that Chick-fil-A can legally discriminate against gays at most of their stores.

I have alleged one thing, and that is the thing you called a lie. Why would I lie? Here's the quote from your Forbes article again.

Family members of prospective operators--children, even--are frequently interviewed so Cathy and his family can learn more about job candidates and their relationships at home. "If a man can't manage his own life, he can't manage a business," says Cathy, who says he would probably fire an employee or terminate an operator who "has been sinful or done something harmful to their family members."

What kind of sinfulness do you suppose "counts"? Maybe I'm wrong when I suppose that being openly gay counts, but it's hardly a stretch, and nowhere near baseless enough to constitute a "lie". Don't you yourself consider homosexuality sinful? Why wouldn't Dan Cathy?

Even if you are correct that leaves at least 25% (well over 400 stores) that can be. So....where are all the lawsuits?

No, math. It's 25% of their stores at most that are in states where they can't discriminate based on sexual orientation. It's at least 11%. It's not super important to what I'm saying but if you're gonna use numbers you gotta use them correctly.

Now, I'm not asserting that Chick-fil-A illegally discriminates against gay employees.

You dont think you are implying that by posting all that crap? :confused:

Wow.

Nope. (Why's it crap?)

I choose words carefully. Please read them carefully.

Now, I'm not asserting that Chick-fil-A illegally discriminates against gay employees. I am only asserting that Chick-fil-A said it discriminates against gay employees, and that they can't be sued for doing that in at least 75% of their stores.

Where are the lawsuits? Well, it seems fair to give Chick-fil-A the benefit of any doubt and assume that they obey the law and do not discriminate against gay employees at the ≤25% of their stores where it is illegal to do so.

I cannot demonstrate that Chick-fil-A discriminates against gay employees at the ≥75% of their stores where it is completely legal for them to do so. I am not trying to demonstrate that. All I'm saying is that in those stores they are legally in the clear to fire or refuse to hire sinners, and that Cathy said that he would do that.

You cannot demonstrate that Chick-fil-A does not discriminate against gay employees at the ≥75% of their stores where it is completely legal for them to do so. If they do fire or refuse to hire gay sinners, it's perfectly legal. So why do you insist that they do not?
 
I can attest that I applied for a job at a Chick-fil-a in Texas. I gave the impression on the application that I was gay. So far, no interview.
 
To wit, you need to demonstrate that Chick-fil-A doesn't harass homosexuals more than the "average." And no, a blanket "all types" does not work here. It's too broad and, as Lucy showed, too inaccurate to work.

I dont need to prove the negative.

What is yet to be proven is any factual legal track record of Chic-Fil-A harassing its employees as alleged over and over.
 
What kind of sinfulness do you suppose "counts"? Maybe I'm wrong when I suppose that being openly gay counts, but it's hardly a stretch, and nowhere near baseless enough to constitute a "lie". Don't you yourself consider homosexuality sinful? Why wouldn't Dan Cathy?

I think you made an assumption, and a false one at that since there is no factual evidence on record to support it via legal record or otherwise. Dan Cathy has repeated said his views are his personal beliefs, and the comment I copied and pasted from the website stands. The other simple fact is there is an utter lack of such discrimination lawsuits even in states where they are pefectly allowed speaks volumns. This corporation simply does not engage in the levels of discrimination that it is being accused of.

I and I'm sure Mr. Cathy considers everyone (even himself) a sinner notwithstanding.

No, math. It's 25% of their stores at most that are in states where they can't discriminate based on sexual orientation. It's at least 11%. It's not super important to what I'm saying but if you're gonna use numbers you gotta use them correctly.

And the fact remains there is still an utter lack of such discrimination lawsuits from that percentage as well.

I cannot demonstrate that Chick-fil-A discriminates against gay employees at the ≥75% of their stores where it is completely legal for them to do so. I am not trying to demonstrate that. All I'm saying is that in those stores they are legally in the clear to fire or refuse to hire sinners, and that Cathy said that he would do that.

As in you pointing out in math, you should also be accurate in what Cathy said. I do think he was implying that it was sin that would harm a persons family didnt he?

You cannot demonstrate that Chick-fil-A does not discriminate against gay employees at the ≥75% of their stores where it is completely legal for them to do so.

No, I cant prove the negative. There is simply no evidence to support that claim.

If they do fire or refuse to hire gay sinners, it's perfectly legal. So why do you insist that they do not?

I'm simply pointing out that there is no factual evidence that they do.
 
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Get your story straight...
 
I can attest that I applied for a job at a Chick-fil-a in Texas. I gave the impression on the application that I was gay. So far, no interview.

I think I'm going to try this out and see if I can get a lawsuit going...I'm not gay,but I am curious...curious how much chik a fila would pay me to keep my mouth shut and not sue....:crazyeye:

grabs a pink tie for my interview....
 
Personally, I think we should just all agree they make good chicken.
(based on anecdotal evidence as I have never eaten at one before)
 
Personally, I think we should just all agree they make good chicken.
(based on anecdotal evidence as I have never eaten at one before)

I used to eat at the Chick-Fil-A on campus until this controversy rolled out. Since gay rights is a very serious issue for me, I couldn't bring myself to eat there any more and haven't since. I don't brag about this personal boycott, or picket anywhere, or ask them to give me cups of ice water. I just don't eat there anymore.

It's a shame but I can't in good conscience move any of my economic grist into their hands. It just don't feel right.
 
The other simple fact is there is an utter lack of such discrimination lawsuits even in states where they are pefectly allowed speaks volumns.

It shows that they obey the law. The fact that the kids don't swear at the dinner table with you doesn't say anything about whether they swear when they're out with their friends.

As in you pointing out in math, you should also be accurate in what Cathy said. I do think he was implying that it was sin that would harm a persons family didnt he?

I think it's plainly obvious that he was not implying that. Supposing that he was implying that appears to me to contradict what you just said about accuracy.

I'm simply pointing out that there is no factual evidence that they do.

That's fine. And again, I'm not saying that they do. I'm just saying that at most of their stores they're allowed to so we wouldn't know if they did.
 
I think it's plainly obvious that he was not implying that. Supposing that he was implying that appears to me to contradict what you just said about accuracy.

Except his comment that you so nicely quoted said precisely that. To remind you:

has been sinful or done something harmful to their family members.

The way this is parsed leads me to believe he is referring to sins that would indeed harm their own family members, like perhaps adultery or something along those lines. Not simply being homosexual.

In any event he simply didnt specify homosexuality in any way, shape or form. No matter how much you try to deny that, its just the simple truth.

That's fine. And again, I'm not saying that they do. I'm just saying that at most of their stores they're allowed to so we wouldn't know if they did.

I'm not exactly sure your premise is correct on this, nor does it prevent us from not knowing as said persons being discriminated against have other things they could do aside from pursing litigation, like going to the press about it. But there isnt even a lot of that either, so.....that...plus the face that there simply arent any such lawsuits from areas where it is blatently against the law indicate to me that these allegations are just that...allegations and nothing more.
 
Except his comment that you so nicely quoted said precisely that. To remind you:

has been sinful or done something harmful to their family members.

The way this is parsed leads me to believe he is referring to sins that would indeed harm their own family members, like perhaps adultery or something along those lines. Not simply being homosexual.

"The way this is parsed" isn't a thing, it doesn't have any meaning. There's "the way MobBoss is parsing this", which is a deliberate pretzel.

In any event he simply didnt specify homosexuality in any way, shape or form. No matter how much you try to deny that, its just the simple truth.

I don't assert or try to deny that he didn't specify homosexuality.
 
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