China and Taiwan

A national missile defense is the right thing to do...

A billion dollars spent on a missile defense system that could save ten million and ten trillion dollars is definently worth the expense.

Defense should be our first priority, social programs second.
 
Defense againt the real threat might be more useful. Let's face it gentlemen, you aren't going to war against the powers that could actually fire a serious nuke attack at the US anytime soon - unless Bush got some screwed-up ideas up his sleeve.

North Korea is a very remote possibility. And they can't field much nuke wise. One ICBM last I heard?
Iraq - It's not even certain that they have nukes at this point, let alone the ICBM to launch them. There are high (and probably justified) suspicions that they have them, but...
Iran - Major nuke power there. Yep.
China - US-China war, missile defense or not? Forget it. The Chinesse army, even with weaker equipment, would still inflict ghastly losses to the US forces through sheer number alone.
Russia - Russia is not going to go to war with you.
Israel - It's called "biting the hand that's feeding you." Israel won't do that.
India, Pakista - They'll nuke each other MAD-style before ever thinking about dropping one or two mushroom clouds on the US.
France, UK - yeah, right.

So, we have a NMD to defend against what exactly? A *single* ICBM which is just as likely to screw up and hit some random nameless rock in the pacific as to hit the US, and a POSSIBLE Iraqi nuke array?

A less-than-efficient system to combat a less-than-present threat? If you want to spend that money on defense, spend it on anti-terrorist warfare. THAT is actually going to be useful. Bolster up the secret services, etc.

But of course, Bush's friends in the defense industry won't pocket as much money then.
 
Originally posted by Oda Nobunaga
Defense againt the real threat might be more useful. Let's face it gentlemen, you aren't going to war against the powers that could actually fire a serious nuke attack at the US anytime soon - unless Bush got some screwed-up ideas up his sleeve.

North Korea is a very remote possibility. And they can't field much nuke wise. One ICBM last I heard?
Iraq - It's not even certain that they have nukes at this point, let alone the ICBM to launch them. There are high (and probably justified) suspicions that they have them, but...
Iran - Major nuke power there. Yep.
China - US-China war, missile defense or not? Forget it. The Chinesse army, even with weaker equipment, would still inflict ghastly losses to the US forces through sheer number alone.
Russia - Russia is not going to go to war with you.
Israel - It's called "biting the hand that's feeding you." Israel won't do that.
India, Pakista - They'll nuke each other MAD-style before ever thinking about dropping one or two mushroom clouds on the US.
France, UK - yeah, right.

So, we have a NMD to defend against what exactly? A *single* ICBM which is just as likely to screw up and hit some random nameless rock in the pacific as to hit the US, and a POSSIBLE Iraqi nuke array?

A less-than-efficient system to combat a less-than-present threat? If you want to spend that money on defense, spend it on anti-terrorist warfare. THAT is actually going to be useful. Bolster up the secret services, etc.

But of course, Bush's friends in the defense industry won't pocket as much money then.

None of the countries of the so-called "Axis of Evil" have nuclear weapons or delivery systems capable of reaching USA. Apparently North Korea is developing ICBMs but it is unlikely they'll build more than 1 within next 15 years.

Even though in my last post I have shown that the NMD could theoretically be quite effective, I still think it is a waste of money, because the threats are fully hypothetical. Well, it's America's money, so I don't object to them wasting $100's billions just to make them sleep better at night.


posted by rmsharpe:

Defense should be our first priority, social programs second.


Yeah, I think America definitely needs defenses, because currently it is a completely defenseless little country, with big bad bullies all around it who are all waiting to destroy the United States, so America should declare full-scale mobilisation to defend the homeland against enemy invasion! Also the Pentagon should not forget to build special defenses around tall buildings to stop aircraft smashing into them. While this build-up of military force is continuing, all social programs should be scrapped, the eldery chucked out of the retirement homes, all students whose parents cannot afford their education thrown out of schools and colleges, and low-income patients should not be allowed into hospitals. All of the money saved should be diverted to homeland defense. :crazyeyes:
 
I'm not so sure that NMD is about actually deploying a working system as it is developing the technology. If you can hit an ICBM there's pretty much nothing on this earth you can't hit. That's a capability you want to have, even if you don't actually implement a full "missile shield".

/bruce
 
Originally posted by sgrig
I think it is foolish of China to seriously plan to invade Taiwan. And I think that although they constantly rattle their sabers, they are never going to do so, because if China did invade Taiwan, China's reputation would go down the drain and all their recent economic achievements would also be wasted. After such an attack, China would become isolated on the world stage, branded as an agressor and a rogue state. I think its not too hard for China's leaders to realise that. Also, when USA will built its NMD, China's nuclear arsenal would not be a major threat to USA, so USA would be able to intervene on Taiwan's side, without worrying too much about China's possible nuclear reply (which would be suicidal for China anyway).

However, personally, I do think that in perspective, Taiwan and China should be reunited, but by peaceful means.

I think that even with a communist government in China, this could be possible, under 'one country - two systems' scheme. So if China guarantees personal freedoms, etc to Taiwanese and offers them great autonomousy, Taiwan might eventually agree. So Taiwan could still be semi-independent, but formally part of China. In perspective, mainland China is bound to become more liberal, so the differences between the 'two systems' will eventually erode, and they will become one single country. I realise this is a very idealistic scenario, but maybe something similar could work out.

I don't think the one country two system is working. Check out HK, Beijing just interfered with HK's election. Beside that, it is obviously unfair to all Chinese citizens if Taiwanese produce their own law limiting the movement of Chinese people to Taiwan. It is an unfair deal for the Taiwanese and the Chinese.
 
Originally posted by Oda Nobunaga
Probably because everyone is spying on everyone, everyoen is stealing ideas - even copyrighted ones - from everyone else and so on.

And probably because they really don't see any point in ostracizing China - it's NOT going to improve human rights there. Cuba and Iraq don't seem to be noticeably gaining human rights wise from being ostracized, and the human right matter is really the only thing China is doing wrong now.

Taiwan? Well, technically, sorry to say, but the Chinesse do have a claim to the island. It was quite clearly granted to China at the end of World War II, but during the civil war the nationalist (who weren't much if at all better than the communists) fled there and decided to use the island for their own.

Technicaly, Taiwan IS a rebel Chinesse province, if you get right down to it.

What happens depend on :

A)Wheter or not Taiwan and China find a peaceful solution.
B)Wheter or not China actually attack if A fail.
C)If B happens, wheter or not the countries of the world recognize Taiwan as an actual country. Last I heard, it was LARGELY unrecognized, but I am unclear on that point.

Rebel Chinese Province???? That's funny.....appearently Taiwan was granted to the Republic of China, not People's Republic of China, so who is the Rebel Chinese Province????? The Mainland of course.

What happen depand on:
A) Wheter or not China respect human rights, freedom and the rights of Taiwanese people.
B) Wheter China is democratic or not.
C) Wheter China respect the fact that there is a nation call The Republic of China.

If non above is done,,,,,,,,nothing will happen. Taiwanese are now more pro independence as time goes. The time will come for the Taiwanese to vote for indenpence. China need to open up like bush said, or they'll lost Taiwan.
 
Originally posted by muppet
I doubt the Bush Administration would distribute NMD technology for anything short of an extortive price tag.

I believe it would in every way a 'gamble' to invest in NMD technology. They would not be squelching free press and criticism of the theoretic and implementation flaws of such a system otherwise. On the surface, it looks like more SDI propoganda.

Has anyone asked how the Tiawanese public feel about this? Obviously, the Taiwanese 'government' does not want to give up power, but how do the Taiwanese 'people' feel?

If we recall Hong Kong, the majority of the 'people' were practically concerned about transfer to China, but emotionally wanted to be 'home' again.

Out west, we often get 1/2 stories. Having asked many personal friends and business contacts in Hong Kong pre and post transfer, their hearts still belong to China eventhough they appreciate the development of Hong Kong during the British administration.

IIRC, Taiwan does not have a UN seat - Is not an independent nation, and never has been. In short, the world community has never recognized Taiwan as a sovereign nation.

Look,,,,if u check out the opinion poll done in Taiwan, u'll find that most people do not believe that they are part of PPC. ROC was once in UN, but because Soviet backup and the fact the the nationalist lost the whole China, UN gave PPC the legitiment claim of China. UN in fact, by rejecting ROC's membership is a violation of "China's internal affair." ROC never dissapeared. In fact, if u go to Taiwan, the flag there is still ROC's flag. UN is nothing but an unable organization which afraid of wars.
 
Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
The Taiwanese people's support for independence is way overblown in the media (Western media). I think only a minority of people want independence or reunification, with the majority not caring either way. Like most average Chinese, they just want to get on with their lives and earn a good living.

When Chen Suibian (spelling?) was elected President the first time, he only got 30+% of the vote IIRC, with the KMT vote splited betw Lien Chan, the picked KMT candidate and James Soong, the popular ex-KMT candidate. Most people think that the old KMT Prez, Lee Tenghui sabotaged the KMT. He was the one who forced the ever-popular James Soong out of the party and picked the rather average Lien Chan to be the party's candidate in the Prez elections.

Had James Soong being the KMT's sole candidate, Chen Suibian wouldn't stand a chance. James didn't even speak Chinese, much less Hokkien (dialect of most native Taiwanese). That's how popular he is, even now.

Nowadays the old geez, Lee Tenghui, is openly aligned with the DPP. :rolleyes: And loudly spiking the fire so that Taiwan continued to remain a problem betw China and the USA. The Chinese side was pretty much content to leave things as they were, leaving it to time. They got better things to do.

Dude,,,,U have to understand that Taiwanese care about other stuffs more than about reunification. KMT was unpopular for it's reputation in the past. Taiwanese people wanted some change, so they picked Chen Shi-Bien. The election was not about reunification at all. Taiwanese had demostrated that they understand the essence of democracy, "the interchange of parties." You will also have to understand that pro independence opinion is getting louder mainly due to PPC's constant threat against Taiwan.
 
Originally posted by Headline


I don't think the one country two system is working. Check out HK, Beijing just interfered with HK's election. Beside that, it is obviously unfair to all Chinese citizens if Taiwanese produce their own law limiting the movement of Chinese people to Taiwan. It is an unfair deal for the Taiwanese and the Chinese.

But it is better a better deal than forced integration of Taiwan into China as a province without any rights or freedoms whatsoever. Of course, "one country, two systems" system is not ideal to say the least, but I think it is currently the best known scheme for integration of countries which are vastly different in terms of political and economical situation, because it makes the process of integration very gradual, slow, and not very painful.

For a counter-example, look at East-West Germany reunification. Despite the general hype that is has been very successful, and the initial euphoria about it on both sides of the Berlin Wall, it has in reality been very painful for many East Germans, millions of whom lost their jobs, social position etc, in the rushed process of reunification. (Some have even lost housing as well). I know this example very different from China-Taiwan case, but I think it makes the point.

Concerning Hong Kong, true, changes are taking place, but very slowly and not too painfully for anyone. Although Hong has been officially part of China for almost 5 years, it still retains its national currency, it still has a democratic lifestyle, its population hasn't been deported to forced labour camps, its people still enjoy some degree of self-determination. Travel between Hong Kong and mainland China is very limited, especially for mainland Chinese, but that makes sense because the standard of living in Hong Kong is much higher than in China proper, so limiting travel saves Hong Kong from being swamped by migrants from mainland China. I think that travel restrictions will be eased when the contrast in quality of life between China and HK decreases quite a lot.

So I don't see why this could not work with Taiwan as well. However I must admit that from I heard from Chinese people, HK Chinese are far more willing to be associated with mainland China than are Taiwanese.

In perspective, I don't see a future for Taiwan as a fully independent nation, especially as China's role in the world grows steadily. At some point, using Civ3 terminology, there will be a 'culture flip'!
 
Originally posted by sgrig
In perspective, I don't see a future for Taiwan as a fully independent nation, especially as China's role in the world grows steadily. At some point, using Civ3 terminology, there will be a 'culture flip'!

I have to say I find this point of view a little distressing. The Taiwanese people have established a nation (if not a country) with a strong economy and a legitimate, if fragile, democracy. If anyone has claim to independence in this world, it would seem to be the Taiwanese.

But what really distresses me is the double standard. Many who roundly blast the U.S. for throwing it's weight around in the world arena seem to think it's ok to cave in to PRC bluster regarding Taiwan.

I'm sorry, but I really believe that those of you who repeat the "Taiwan is not an independent nation" line are really kidding yourselves. If the Taiwanese, at some point, decide they want to unite with the PRC, hey, more power to them and good luck. But if they don't, then there is nothing, at the moment, that the PRC can do about it. They are, for all intents and purposes, an independent nation.

I mean, c'mon. All it would take to make Taiwan independent would be 3 little words from George Bush's mouth: "We recognize Taiwan". After that, it would be a done deal. 3 little words. How can the mere absence of those words all of the sudden make Taiwan part of the PRC?

/bruce
 
First, I'll start off with a Polish joke that was circulating back around 1990:

One day President Bush (Sr.) and First Secretary Gorbachov woke up next to each other and learned they'd been in a coma for 50 years. Lying between them was a current newspaper. Gorbachov grabs the paper and starts reading. After a few moments he begins chuckling. Bush asks him why, and he responds "Oh, nothing. It's just that there's an article here that says the U.S. is economically, militarily and therefore politically in decline." Bush angrily grabs the newspaper and begins reading it himself. After a few moments he also begins chuckling. "What're you laughing about?" asked Gorbachov warily. "Oh nothing," responds Bush. "It's just that it says here that there was a minor incident on the Polish-Chinese border this morning..." :lol:

Sorry Sgrig, no offense intended.

I had some friends from Taiwan as a student (MAN, could they cook!) and a friend who's been living and studying Chinese in Tapei for a few years has confirmed for me that there's been a resurgence of native Taiwanese nationalism over the past decade (or so), that emphasizes local native cultural virtues over Han Chinese values, whether mainland or Guomingdong-inspired. My friend told me that many of the old people remember the Japanese occupation years with affection and enjoyed speaking with him in Japanese (he'd spent a year in Osaka). This came as a shock to me, although perhaps this is because the Japanese occupied Formosa long before their ultra-nationalists came to power. I've been told that the native languages are increasingly being used in public places, in advertisements, even in parliament. Chinese still dominates, but cracks are beginning to appear.

Excellent overview of the UN situation, K-D. The issue has been simply that there is one seat for China in the UN and that hasn't changed since the UN's inception; the issue has been who represents China. I think this is the crux of the problem. Some observations:

1. Today's Wall Street Journal mentions that China has increased its military budget for next year by 17%, putting the overall Chinese government budget into deficit spending. The aim: "recovery" of Taiwan. The reality is that modern Chinese nationalists, led by the Army, are determined to incorporate Taiwan into the mainland's political fold. Although I've heard voices of reason in Beijing claiming that it may not be in China's best interest to incorporate Taiwan into the People's Republic - forcibly or otherwise - it is clear the nationalists are driving events. China is preparing for war to recover the island, and it is fully aware that its opponent will not be limited to the already-formidible Taiwanese army. Within a decade or so, we may get that ugly CNN announcement.

2. The "Ein Volk, ein Nation!" concept has driven much of 20th century Europe's views on who deserves independence and statehood, and therefore has influenced the rest of the world to differing extents. I'm not convinced it's the best way to go though. Europe is currently involved in an effort to establish a limited "civilizational" state, a sort of confederation, and one wonders if a similar Chinese model wouldn't be a better solution than attempting to create a massive Beijing-ruled empire. A Sinic civilizational confederation, a "CU" or "SU" (Chinese Union/Sinic Union) with sovereign states (China, Tibet, Macao, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and perhaps the Koreas, Malaysia, Singapore, etc.) would not only create ideal localized/decentralized conditions for capitalist development but would also open up trade barriers and borders within Southeast Asia. That said, I am of course aware that this is a pipe dream because the only time any historical Chinese state or empire was decentralized was when it was coming apart at the seams, collapsing into civil war. The Chinese, like the Russians, love very heavily centralized control. The Qinshihuangdi model of governance still reigns in China.

3. From a Western viewpoint, I think Taiwanese independence is worth fighting for. The West, especially the U.S., has invested too much political and economic capital in Taiwan to abandon it to nationalist Chinese imperial designs. Walking away from a functioning democratic ally in peril would be a serious blow to Western prestige around the world.

4. It seems as if a developmental cycle, a learning curve, has been in the works over the past century +; it began with the West establishing its imperial domains throughout the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, only to see them fall apart or break away in two very bloody world wars. Russia caught on in the very end of the West's imperial age and entered its own similar imperial age from 1944-1989, while modern-day China seems to be just entering that phase. After the shock of the collapse of their empires had faded, Western scholars began to tabulate the real costs and effects of their imperialism and came to realize that more often than not the empires were highly inefficient, and ended up costing the imperial states far more than they were able to extract from them through exploitation - not to mention the human rights cost. This is a lesson I think some modern Russian scholars are also coming to, though their conclusions have not been fully digested yet by the population-at-large. (Sgrig? Some input?) China seems to have taken nothing from these examples, and seems bent on building an Imperial Chinese Age in Southeast Asia. The Chinese, like many former victims of Western imperialism, have programmed themselves to believe they are exclusively victims and are blind to the reality they are treading down similar paths as those taken by the Western imperialists more than a century ago. Again, a failure to see the truly human dimension of history, and its universal lessons and effects.
 
Hmmm. Interesting thread. Most posters seem to agree that China has no rightful claim to Taiwan. Also, though not explicitly stated by all, the reason for this opinion has a lot to do with communism being 'evil' and democracy being 'good'. Thus, the opinions about China threatening to reunify with force if necessary seem to be based on the fact that China is 'evil'. I wonder what would happen, hypothetically speaking of course, if Hawaii were to decide to leave the US and become communist. I am pretty sure that the US would threaten military action to retake the islands from the 'evil' communists, while the Chinese might well hold the opinion that Hawaiins chose to be communist, and therefore the democratic US is 'evil' for threatening to reunify by force. Kind of a confusing thought. My basic point is that people who have been inundated with pro-democracy propaganda since childhood normally hold the opinion that communism is evil, and any attempt to stifle democracy is evil. On the other hand, those who have been inundated with pro-communism propaganda, will have the exact opposite beliefs. Most Americans are almost completely ignorant of the actual state of living in China and Taiwan, and so are not qualified to make a judgement on what is better for this situation, other than one based purely on ideological 'truths' that are often nothing more than a result of propaganda.

Now, I will duck for cover.;)
 
I suppose it's a fair question.

I, myself, would defend Taiwan's right to independence regardless of the form of government in place in the PRC. The fact that the PRC is communist is actually not that relevant. The fact that is it not a democracy is. I would find it very difficult to support a non-democratic country over a democratic country even if the non-democractic country was governed by the Masonic order or the Shriners.

Btw, your example with Hawaii is not perfect. A better example might be if Confederate ex-pats had retreated to Puerto Rico after the civil war and set up shop there.

/bruce
 
This is something I've been thinking about for a while. In a sense, is Taiwan not the Republic of China and the mainland the People's Republic of China? In this sense, Taiwan could regain the rebellious mainland. Rebels (Socialists) overtook China because, after WWII, President Roosevelt essentially allowed it (or at least paved the way), betraying Chiang Kai-Chek's Republican government.
 
Originally posted by MajorGeneral2
This is something I've been thinking about for a while. In a sense, is Taiwan not the Republic of China and the mainland the People's Republic of China? In this sense, Taiwan could regain the rebellious mainland. Rebels (Socialists) overtook China because, after WWII, President Roosevelt essentially allowed it (or at least paved the way), betraying Chiang Kai-Chek's Republican government.

I don't know my China history as well as I should, but Roosevelt died before WWII ended. Please clarify your point if possible. Thanks :)
 
Originally posted by sgrig
For a counter-example, look at East-West Germany reunification. Despite the general hype that is has been very successful, and the initial euphoria about it on both sides of the Berlin Wall, it has in reality been very painful for many East Germans, millions of whom lost their jobs, social position etc, in the rushed process of reunification. (Some have even lost housing as well).
I've never heard anyone say unification didn't work like they wanted it to. The standard of living of my formerly east German family has probably quadrupled since the Berlin Wall fell. They are not better off than the rest of Germans, but they are sure as heck better off than they were during Communism.

I think the main difference there is that the state with the higher standard of living absorbed the one with the lower... in China-Taiwan, you have the huge difference in size & standard of living.
In Taiwan, you're talking about a nation of 22 million people with $17,000 per capita GDP. In China you're talking about 1.5 billion people with a $3,600 per capita GDP.

Unless China accepts democracy, I don't see how Taiwan could gain anything out of reunification. Yes, it is my Western bias speaking.

As far as China recapturing Taiwan, I don't see how it is feasable... I think the PRC is politically too weak to pull it off. It would be like trying to convince Americans to capture the rebellious province of Canada. Sure, we'd like to exploit them, but Canadians look like us, they talk like us, they're our North American brothers, they're an independant nation... how could we justify killing them? Does anyone think such an operation could gain public support in China? Granted, in a authoritarian state it is not as important, but for a regime like China's which has been loosing its control over the population it could be the catalyst to their fall.
 
Originally posted by eyrei
Hmmm. Interesting thread. Most posters seem to agree that China has no rightful claim to Taiwan. Also, though not explicitly stated by all, the reason for this opinion has a lot to do with communism being 'evil' and democracy being 'good'. Thus, the opinions about China threatening to reunify with force if necessary seem to be based on the fact that China is 'evil'. I wonder what would happen, hypothetically speaking of course, if Hawaii were to decide to leave the US and become communist. I am pretty sure that the US would threaten military action to retake the islands from the 'evil' communists, while the Chinese might well hold the opinion that Hawaiins chose to be communist, and therefore the democratic US is 'evil' for threatening to reunify by force. Kind of a confusing thought. My basic point is that people who have been inundated with pro-democracy propaganda since childhood normally hold the opinion that communism is evil, and any attempt to stifle democracy is evil. On the other hand, those who have been inundated with pro-communism propaganda, will have the exact opposite beliefs. Most Americans are almost completely ignorant of the actual state of living in China and Taiwan, and so are not qualified to make a judgement on what is better for this situation, other than one based purely on ideological 'truths' that are often nothing more than a result of propaganda.

Now, I will duck for cover.;)

George W Bush said: "We have to defend the American Value."
:lol:

Taiwanese shared the same value the"Freedom" with the Americans. American should defend the one who shared their common belief, or other wise, go back to isolationism before interfere with world politics. Yes, communism is evil, it interferes with American value "Freedom." In reality, the core of Axis of Evil is in China, but American wanted to use peaceful way to change China. Many people believe that China is no longer a Communist nation. Yes, China is no longer a communist nation, but it is a psudocommunist or socialist nation. If you read the news in China, u will find that their words sound very communist like, and is full of propaganda. In fact, Chinese are secretly calling the Americans "Imperialist."

Hawaiian are mainly American now, I believe. If they are using democratic way by voting to decide if they are to be independent, I believe that United States will let them do it. However, US laws also enable citizens from other states to become an Hawaiian citizen after 20 days. The result of the voting will be people from other states going to Hawaii and vote there. As the result, Hawaiian can't be independent.

Taiwan, however, is different. There are 2 China in the world. One in Taiwan, One in Beijing. No one in the world including the PPC, the UN, and the US can deny that ROC is a nation. In Taiwan, there is constitution, national anthem, functional government, functional army and a lot more. If you are to travel in Taiwan, you will have to recieve the entrance permission in Taiwanese government represented organization to entry. Not PPC's document. ROC doesn't recongnize PPC's leginimancy in Taiwan.

Culturally, the Taiwanese are different than the mainland PPC. Taiwanese are more religious (mainland Chinese is not). Taiwanese use the traditional Chinese, mainland China does not. Taiwanese have relative stable population, while mainland China is over populated. There are more.

PPC is now, going around the world forcing people to deny the existence of ROC. It is trying to wipe out the history that ROC exist. This sounds to me is just evil.
 
Originally posted by MajorGeneral2
This is something I've been thinking about for a while. In a sense, is Taiwan not the Republic of China and the mainland the People's Republic of China? In this sense, Taiwan could regain the rebellious mainland. Rebels (Socialists) overtook China because, after WWII, President Roosevelt essentially allowed it (or at least paved the way), betraying Chiang Kai-Chek's Republican government.

Taiwan is the remains of the Republic of China. The constitution of ROC said that the whole mainland is belong to ROC. Many Taiwanese are trying to change it to only covers the Taiwanese islands. Sadly, PPC is pointing a gun at Taiwanese.

Roosevelt was dead by then when WWII is over. US did tried to help the KMT by sending them some advisor and money backup, but the KMT was so corrupted that they pretty much dug a hole and bury themselves. Trumen were angry, so no more money for KMT. The US didn't anticipate that KMT would loose to the communist so rapidly that there is no troop or weapon backup to KMT. Also, it was cold war era already back then, so Trumen was afraid of the Soviet. I don't think it's Trumen's fault.
 
Originally posted by Headline
Culturally, the Taiwanese are different than the mainland PPC. Taiwanese are more religious (mainland Chinese is not). Taiwanese use the traditional Chinese, mainland China does not. Taiwanese have relative stable population, while mainland China is over populated. There are more.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm amazed; Taiwanese are 'culturally different' fr mainland Chinese. :lol: Sure they speak the Hokkien dialect, but so do the majority of the 'mainland Chinese' in Fujian, which is the province directly across the Taiwan Straits fr China. And a lot of Chinese Hokkien communities in SE Asia and beyond.

Sure they use the traditional Chinese script, but so do the Hongkongers. In fact, most Chinese communities (like in M'sia, S'pore) for e.g. are adopting the mainland simplified script cos it's a real pain and torture to learn, read and write in the traditional script.

What does population density have to do with culture? Japan is surely more highly overpopulated than China, considering their arable land area.

FYI, the Chinese are not a really racially homogenous race like I have said many times. How can 1 billion plus people be? The Taiwanese are simply one strand of the large no of people lumped together and called the Chinese.
 
Originally posted by Headline
Roosevelt was dead by then when WWII is over. US did tried to help the KMT by sending them some advisor and money backup, but the KMT was so corrupted that they pretty much dug a hole and bury themselves. Trumen were angry, so no more money for KMT. The US didn't anticipate that KMT would loose to the communist so rapidly that there is no troop or weapon backup to KMT. Also, it was cold war era already back then, so Trumen was afraid of the Soviet. I don't think it's Trumen's fault.
Yeah, bloody stupid corrupted KMT digged their own graves themselves. So corrupted that even vast numbers of KMT's own troops went over to the Commies (something like 500Ks and more), along with their American-made rifles and such.

Also Chiang got greedy and spread all his best troops all over the N Chinese and Manchurian cities. The Commies were able to pick them off one by one. Idiot.

But the ultimate fault went to the Japanese. Chiang was on the verge of exterminating the Commies in the 30s when the imperialist Japanese invaded and destroyed most of his better troops (and officers) then.
 
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