China invasion of Taiwan POLL!

[EzInKy]

You really can't make such a comparison.

I can and I did B-)

Those are two places on the opposite sides of the Earth. And besides, Finland also belongs to the EU. Would the world just stay idle if, for example, Turkey invaded Greece? That's just as legitimate a comparison as the one you posted.

Or Iraq invading Kuwait? Saddam thought of it as just a runaway province , didn't he? Seems I remember Russia thinking the same about Finland sometime in the past. Besides, when you commit to defend something, you commit to defend it even if it is on the opposite side of the Earth.

 

[crystal]

Or Iraq invading Kuwait? Saddam thought of it as just a runaway province , didn't he? Seems I remember Russian thinking the same about Finland sometime in the past. Besides, when you commit to defend something, you commit to defend it even if it is on the opposite side of the Earth.

You're forgetting one thing: my nation haven't committed to defend anything.

 

[Karl Lenin]

I would want my nation to send troops to help China!

 

[EzInKy]

You're forgetting one thing: my nation haven't committed to defend anything.

That's right, you aren't a NATO country are you? But doesn't being part of the EU commit your country to defend Europe?

 

[crystal]

That's right, you aren't a NATO country are you? But doesn't being part of the EU commit your country to defend Europe?

No, we aren't a Nato country. The population is WAY too anti-USA for that. We depend on conscription... and good luck.

I don't think even being in the EU commits us to defend anything... there was some discussion about including some kind of mutual protection pact on EU constitution, but then Finland's "wise" political leaders decided we should excluded from that. Apparently they still fear that the Russkies are going to attack if we join any military alliances.

 

[EzInKy]

No, we aren't a Nato country. The population is WAY too anti-USA for that. We depend on conscription... and good luck.

I don't think even being in the EU commits us to defend anything... there was some discussion about including some kind of mutual protection pact on EU constitution, but then Finland's "wise" political leaders decided we should excluded from that. Apparently they still fear that the Russkies are going to attack if we join any military alliances.

So the EU is a swim together sink apart type of arrangement then B-)

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

I seem to remember that there is some mention of mutual protection in the EU constitution, but it's kind of watered down to protect the neutrality of some member states. I think there is still a pledge to "aid" a nation under attack, but not necessarily intervene. Shows how far away we are from a federal EU.

 

[10Seven]

Interesting thread...

For some history...

China had been in a particular state of civil war, with two factions emerging as the Nationalists and Communists - led by Chiang Kai-shek and Mao Tse Tung respectivly. Each had support from outside, with greater support from the USA and USSR.

At the opening of the 2nd World war the Nationalists were roughly on top, but then bore the brunt of Japanese incursion - during which a three way war was fought. The outcome was a stalemate with the Japanese who were unable to make great ground, but at the end, with growing support from the USSR the Communists were resurgent.

The end saw Chian Kai-shek and the Nationalist army withdrawing to the the island now know as Taiwan.

Each maintains claim to the other territory.

Frankly, I think the problem is with a remaining aristocracy left over from the previous conflict, and the evolving one in Mainland China.
The average person won't give a rats behind.

If China invaded Taiwan, well, I'd be mixed.

On one hand I think I would personally involve myself because:
1. Continued Chinese assertion to Taiwan is evidence of continuing imperialist agression - more likely to be piqued by a succesful invasion.
2. I consider Taiwan a sovereign nation and it's citizens to right to self determination against a larger aggressive nation.

But I might not involve myself because the tension is partly self-inflicted.

Yeah, like I'm going to help out in a brawl when two local bullies finally go at it after bawling at each other for ages?

My answer, then is: not sure.

 

[HighlandWarrior]

who cares if China invades Taiwan without provocation?
I mean, is it really important?
btw, fighting for the democracy is the secong biggest lie (the first is the fight against terrorism)

would it be important if japan was next on their list?

 

[Mr Black]

^^ LOL, that's funny

 

[romelus]

You have any cites for the Pentagon's military simulations? (I'm not necessarily disputing it, I'm just looking for more information - everything I've seen indicates that the Seventh Fleet could defend Taiwan.)

i've read about this somewhere, but can't find it at the moment. there are probably other simulations where the seventh fleet wins, but it's anything but clear cut "send in the american carriers and end of story"

china has a large stockpile of missiles both conventional and nuclear, as well as some fairly advanced russian made submarines, and missile destroyers. i don't think the US really wants to risk losing a carrier by declaring war on china, and EU is even less likely to get invovled

 

[Archer 007]

I would want my nation to send troops to help China!

Because the world can always use more land in thehands of dictators.

 

[Dann]

I'm actually enjoying this thread.

 

[wildWolverine]

GerrardCapashen made a critical observation. It would take years for China to build up the necessary transport ships to ferry their more numerous built also more ill-equipped troops to Taiwan. It would be impossible to conceal such a buildup -- reconnaissance has improved somewhat since 1944

I am by no means an expert on Chinese history, but technically, weren't the Maoists the rebels? I mean, Taiwan is the last remnants of the followers of Kai-shek, aren't they? Wouldn't this be similar to a scenario where the Federal government retreated to Puerto Rico or Cuba after losing the Civil War to the Confederacy?

 

[romelus]

I am by no means an expert on Chinese history, but technically, weren't the Maoists the rebels? I mean, Taiwan is the last remnants of the followers of Kai-shek, aren't they? Wouldn't this be similar to a scenario where the Federal government retreated to Puerto Rico or Cuba after losing the Civil War to the Confederacy?

yeah something like that. and if we were to apply the same logic, if the federal government fled to hawaii, the confederacy would be an evil nation trying for world domination if they dared to claim hawaii as part of the united states

 

[stratego]

define "unprovoked."
If China says "we have a new bomb, let's test it on Taiwan" then YES, I want the US to get involved.
But if China goes to war with Taiwan because Taiwan declare independence then no way should the US get involved. In this case, US shouldn't even sell weapons to Taiwan, because that's hypocritical.

 

[Sarevok]

Absolutely, the democracy of Taiwan must be preserved!

 

[Sims2789]

Yes, and I’m NOT from Europe. We need to protect democracy and try to stunt China's rising power if we get the chance. I doubt China would invade Taiwan anyway. They have a mutualistic relationship, i.e., Taiwan benifits from China and China benifits from Taiwan. But the whole independence thing is stupid, as the People's Republic of China never had control over Taiwan.

 

[Evertonian]

Taiwan has never been a sovereign state. It was regained by China from the Japanese at the end of ww2. The people who retreated there were trying to overthrow the now internationally recognised government of China. If they declare independence they are stealing land (and sea) from China.

In the 2 scenarios, (1. Taiwan declares independence, 2. China sends troops into Taiwan without there being a declaration of independence by Taiwan) I would prefer to join in on the Chinese side in the first case, and stay neutral in the second.

Imagine if a group within the US tried to overthrow the Government, retreated to Hawai, then declared independence! Wouldn't you want the US to do something about it!

 

[Dann]

@Evertonian
I know you've been very helpful but I have a few corrections.

The last time Taiwan was "independent" was during the 1600s, when it was ruled by the Ming loyalist general Koxinga and his heirs. Koxinga had fled with his forces to Taiwan, which was then a Dutch colony, after the Ming had fallen to the Qing. (makes today's situation slightly deja vu ) He kicked out the Dutch and an independent Taiwan existed for a few decades, not as "Taiwan" but as a last bastion for the defeated Ming.

And the KMT who retreated to Taiwan were not some rebel group trying to overthrow the now internationally recognised government of China. They were once THE internationally recognised government of China.