China - Qin Shi Huang Thread

[darko82]

Building the wall bit by bit with huge numbers of workers sounds very tedious.

We can shape it the way we want. It looks pretty cool. I like it.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Notes:

1. I'd like "Mandate of Heaven" (as suggested by How_to_know) much more than "Change of Dynasty". More immersive, and better fits the fact what rulers don't change in Civ. Not a game breaker, though.

2. Since great wall stays in place, it's likely to be built in the directions where you're not going to expand. This adds quite interesting strategic choice.

3. Early wonders could provide very different bonus and with eurekas covering both science and culture, I'd say China fits every victory condition except conquest.

4. Preliminary appearance on China site means Japan reveal likely wasn't a mistake, so the break of "Civ reveal on Tuesday" schedule seems to be intentional. Not sure why, though.

We can shape it the way we want. It looks pretty cool. I like it.

It was mentioned before what it could be built on your current border only. So, it's not free, although with buying tiles you could shape your border.

 

[cazaderonus]

Well, the one thing that pokes my interest most in this video is about the UA.

The narrator says it boosts "eureka and inspirationnal moments".

So, doesnt that mean that the culture tree will have its own eureka moments but called inspirationnal instead ? Afaik, this hasnt been discussed so far. What do you guys think of that ?

I'm trying to think of how these inspirationnal moments for the culture tree could happen. Maybe through the use of specific cards or government changes ? Picking a military card early could boost your culture "research" toward something like warrior code, when picking a civil card could boost toward code of law or something like that. Later on, by picking specific great persons or finding artifacts or creating great works ?

If the culture tree has that mecanic as well, it's gonna make every choices quite interesting.

As for the great wall, i really like the idea of it being a tile improvement but it's gonna be a huge trade off to build it early considering the brand new city unstacking. I dont see the great wall being valuable to build late-ish in the game so it's gonna be built at a time where you dont have much cultural border expansion.

Still, looks fun.

 

[nunor]

That background is a nice change.

 

[darko82]

It was mentioned before what it could be built on your current border only. So, it's not free, although with buying tiles you could shape your border.

Yeah, it gives defence, gold, then culture, tourism. If this is a tile improvement, then it means it takes space for other improvements, which we cannot build on those tiles. We need to shape it/plan how to build the wall. Probably there might be tiles where you do not want it to be - if I understand it correctly.

 

[stealth_nsk]

So, doesnt that mean that the culture tree will have its own eureka moments but called inspirationnal instead ? Afaik, this hasnt been discussed so far. What do you guys think of that ?

They were called "eurekas" before and work the same as eurekas for techs. It could be just introduced term, or just poetical text for narrator.

OR it could be something related to Great People. We don't know much about them and this term would fit.

As for the great wall, i really like the idea of it being a tile improvement but it's gonna be a huge trade off to build it early considering the brand new city unstacking. I dont see the great wall being valuable to build late-ish in the game so it's gonna be built at a time where you dont have much cultural border expansion.

Still, looks fun.

If you don't want to conquer other civs, building great wall on border with another civ is a good idea in most cases, especially if the border has narrow passage.

Yeah, it gives defence, gold, then culture, tourism. If this is a tile improvement, then it means it takes space for other improvements, which we cannot build. We need to shape it/plan how to build the wall. Probably there might be tiles where you do not want it to be - if I understand it correctly.

Yes. What I really like is what so far 3 of 5 revealed civs have specifics in their land usage planning. Japan adjacency bonuses from districts, Egypt bonuses from rivers, China great wall. Should be a lot of replayability as these things are not just 1-time differences, they force to play land differently.

 

[How to know]

One thing I just noticed...

The UA suggests China would receive more bonus from Eureka... 50 precent... Same as every other Video we have seem so far...

Wait... That is because we have only seem Chinese Video with the Eureka so far, that means the 50% Eureka bonus is already buffed, for other civ it could be 30%, 25%, or even a mere 15%! That could change a lot, since the Eureka would be far less tempting than before, players other than China would have more freedom on their gameplay.

 

[darko82]

Yes. What I really like is what so far 3 of 5 revealed civs have specifics in their land usage planning. Japan adjacency bonuses from districts, Egypt bonuses from rivers, China great wall. Should be a lot of replayability as these things are not just 1-time differences, they force to play land differently.

Actually, England and America also have something related to land usage, just not related to tile improvements but war.

- fighting stronger when fighting away from the capital's continent.
- bonus to fighting on its home continent

 

[AriochIV]

So, doesnt that mean that the culture tree will have its own eureka moments but called inspirationnal instead ? Afaik, this hasnt been discussed so far.

Yes, this has been said before; the Eurekas for Civics are called Inspirations. It doesn't really affect anything; it's just a different name for the same thing.

 

[Suho1004]

One thing I just noticed...

The UA suggests China would receive more bonus from Eureka... 50 precent... Same as every other Video we have seem so far...

Wait... That is because we have only seem Chinese Video with the Eureka so far, that means the 50% Eureka bonus is already buffed, for other civ it could be 30%, 25%, or even a mere 15%! That could change a lot, since the Eureka would be far less tempting than before, players other than China would have more freedom on their gameplay.

I noticed this as well. I have always thought that a bonus of 50% was rather excessive, so I would welcome 50% actually being a buff.

 

[mitsho]

The Great Wall taking up a whole tile seems another effect of how much planning for how you'll use your land will be important. I would have liked it better if the Great Wall would have been at the edge of a tile so that you don't lose land. As it is, the tile needs the culture bonus later on to not be too much of a drag. I wonder how that'll play out.

They didn't expand on his agenda any more than what we know already, right?

 

[stealth_nsk]

One thing I just noticed...

The UA suggests China would receive more bonus from Eureka... 50 precent... Same as every other Video we have seem so far...

Wait... That is because we have only seem Chinese Video with the Eureka so far, that means the 50% Eureka bonus is already buffed, for other civ it could be 30%, 25%, or even a mere 15%! That could change a lot, since the Eureka would be far less tempting than before, players other than China would have more freedom on their gameplay.

Good point, but I believe developers specifically mentioned the 50% boost. The indicator in the video could be a mistake.

 

[Bast]

China looks very interesting. I just wish they had a different leader. I hate Qin Shi Huang. I wish it was Wu Zetian or Wen of Sui. Why didn't they go for a Hojo Tokimune (lesser known type) here. LOL

 

[blackcatatonic]

I couldn't get the video quality to go very high, so I wasn't able to read most of the tooltips etc.

Thoughts:

1. Was that our first look at the Hanging Gardens quite early on in the video?

2. Qin's appearance has been cartoonised to the point that he doesn't look especially Chinese! He does actually have a very beautiful background, though, which makes a nice change.

3. China seem a little... dull? The video mentioned that the Great Wall provides 'defence', I assume that just means that units stationed on the UI will get a defensive bonus. I like the idea of it being a tile improvement but I do hope we're not going to get AI China building random tiles of Great Wall here there and everywhere The UA does sound interesting, though. It seems like China are the new Babylon: early tech boost and defensive playstyle, with added emphasis on Wonders esp. in the early game.

4. Had to Google the crouching tiger cannon to check that it was a real thing! Not really much to say here; it doesn't really sound as though it will give China an especially noteworthy military advantage.

 

[Civciv5]

Qin Shi Huang looks like the best designed leader so far, I really like the Imperial Chinese crown, though I would have preferred even more pearls!

Also, I'm beginning to seriously hate the word "civ", especially when the woman says it in a a particularly annoying way in the beginning. Can't she just say "civilization", it shows a bit more sophistication.

 

[stealth_nsk]

1. Was that our first look at the Hanging Gardens quite early on in the video?

We've seen them before.

2. Qin's appearance has been cartoonised to the point that he doesn't look especially Chinese! He does actually have a very beautiful background, though, which makes a nice change.

He looks quite close to the image. And different China people look differently, so it could be quite close to reality.

3. China seem a little... dull? The video mentioned that the Great Wall provides 'defence', I assume that just means that units stationed on the UI will get a defensive bonus. I like the idea of it being a tile improvement but I do hope we're not going to get AI China building random tiles of Great Wall here there and everywhere The UA does sound interesting, though. It seems like China are the new Babylon: early tech boost and defensive playstyle, with added emphasis on Wonders esp. in the early game.

Since Great Wall could only be built on the border only, it should look quite same even with AI.

In addition to defense, the great wall could affect movement points for enemies.

4. Had to Google the crouching tiger cannon to check that it was a real thing! Not really much to say here; it doesn't really sound as though it will give China an especially noteworthy military advantage.

It's quite interesting and fits their defensive playstyle.

 

[kaspergm]

I noticed this as well. I have always thought that a bonus of 50% was rather excessive, so I would welcome 50% actually being a buff.

100 % support for this.

I like China. It seems lika a defensive builder nation. I do hope the Great Wall is more than just a % defence bonus, but will also incur a movement penalty in some way. But I like the way that it's shapeable, that's going to offer some fun.

 

[blackcatatonic]

We've seen them before.

Ah, nvm then. Must have missed that.

He looks quite close to the image. And different China people look differently, so it could be quite close to reality.

True. He still looks too cartoony but that's not really a specific complaint because they all do.

Since Great Wall could only be built on the border only, it should look quite same even with AI.

In addition to defense, the great wall could affect movement points for enemies.

Must have missed that in the video about it only being built on borders. That will certainly help the AI with placement

As for it affecting movement points, did the video say this or is it just speculation? I know that's what it did in Civ V. I get the impression that it's being presented this time more as a physical barrier that has to be overcome, but I'd be interested to know if it needs to be manned in order to be defended or if - as you suggest - it could actually impede enemies getting across on its own.

Would certainly be interesting if it did!

 

[kaspergm]

Just noticed that around 1:50 in this video we see Egypt get a 50 % Eureka bonus, so it seems that the bonus for China is simply not incorporated in the UI (yet), meaning that China potentially gets MORE than 50 % as their Eureka.

 

[JtW]

I quite like the design. "Change of dynasty" does make sense: you get Eurekas for doing stuff so I guess they try to emulate China's "changes of course" through history.

I am not sure why the Great Wall provides gold though. That doesn't strike me as very logical.