Church of Scientology?

[Halcyon]

It depends on what you call a religion. Is an institute a religion just because it says it is? If the Mafia, for example, were to scribe a 'holy book' and declare themselves Corleonists, would they deserve protection under 'religious freedom' laws?

Scientology is a criminal organisation. They con vast amounts of money out of thousands of vulnerable people. They've even killed some of them by refusing real medical attention on the grounds that 'Clear' people aren't supposed to be seen in hospitals. Scientology officially sanctions criminal actions, including murder, against it's 'enemies' - prominent anti-scientologists and 'suppressive persons', those who've wisened up and escaped the con. They even tried to take over Morrocco, which while impressively audacious, is still not on. The Church of Scientology is banned in much of Europe, and under official surveillance just about everywhere it goes. How it got official sanction in the US is anyone's guess.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

How it got official sanction in the US is anyone's guess.

If you look behind the corporate veil, you will see this clearly. Scientology has co-opted and bought control of selected U.S. government officials, particularly in the IRS, in order to carry out and maintain this charade effectively. Without the cooperation of those individuals, the infamous IRS decision to award scientology churches tax exempt status would have never materialized.

http://www.xenu.net/archive/IRS/corp_veil.html

 

[Iggy]

Scientology is a dangerous cult that actively seeks to defraud its victims and deprive them of any medical care that might jeopardize the cult's hold on them.

Most religions in their infancy would be regarded as a cult.

The Church of Scientology is a criminal organization, not a religion.

Scientology is a criminal organisation. They con vast amounts of money out of thousands of vulnerable people. They've even killed some of them by refusing real medical attention on the grounds that 'Clear' people aren't supposed to be seen in hospitals. Scientology officially sanctions criminal actions, including murder, against it's 'enemies' - prominent anti-scientologists and 'suppressive persons', those who've wisened up and escaped the con. They even tried to take over Morrocco, which while impressively audacious, is still not on. The Church of Scientology is banned in much of Europe, and under official surveillance just about everywhere it goes. How it got official sanction in the US is anyone's guess.

If they are criminals then they should be arrested and charged.

I am not trying to defend these guys. Just making the point that most of the mainstream religions have in their day extorted money, killed and tortured none believers and exerted pressure upon believers to tow the line. Why are the CoS so different?

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Because they were created with the sole purpose of making their elite rich by essentially stealing from their lower members. Have you read the suicide stories where people throw themselves off of bridges or into the paths of oncoming trains "clutching their few remaining dollars?" The "Church" of Scientology was created by a science fiction writer just to make money. He's on record as having said that. They even built a paramilitary organization, equipped as a small navy. Besides all that, the Church of Scientology was created by a man who is quoted as having said that the best way to make money is to start a religion. Doesn't that seem a bit strange to you?

They're just a moneymaking scheme that outlived the founder. That's all.

 

[Iggy]

Because they were created with the sole purpose of making their elite rich by essentially stealing from their lower members. Have you read the suicide stories where people throw themselves off of bridges or into the paths of oncoming trains "clutching their few remaining dollars?" The "Church" of Scientology was created by a science fiction writer just to make money. He's on record as having said that. They even built a paramilitary organization, equipped as a small navy. Besides all that, the Church of Scientology was created by a man who is quoted as having said that the best way to make money is to start a religion. Doesn't that seem a bit strange to you?

They're just a moneymaking scheme that outlived the founder. That's all.

Obviously it seems strange to me. All organised religion seems strange to me. This religion is abominable, many other religions have also been abominable at some point in time.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Obviously it seems strange to me. All organised religion seems strange to me. This religion is abominable, many other religions have also been abominable at some point in time.

But all mainstream religions have built themselves up in the world through good works. You may debate this all you like, but there is nothing good scientology is doing in the world.

 

[Evertonian]

Obviously it seems strange to me. All organised religion seems strange to me. This religion is abominable, many other religions have also been abominable at some point in time.

@Iggy
My initial thoughts on this subject were pretty much what you have been saying.

However I read some stuff in the links and although I'm not a member of any religion myself, I can see a difference between these guys and other religions. The actual process of Dianetics, described in one of the links, uses techniques of hypnosis. If that link tells the truth, it seems to me that subjects are basically hypnotised into becoming members. And the technique is presented initially as just helping them overcome some issues they have in their early life that are still affecting them today.

Now of course every religion tries to provide a strong incentive for members to stay members (eg stay or you'll go to hell etc) but surely this type of systematic mind control is something altogether more sinister?

 

[Iggy]

@Pasi & Evertonian.
OK guys you win, I find myself defending a religious organisation which for me is an usual position .... but I make these points.

Some people think the CoS are doing good, you can only con and hypnotise so many followers. There will be a number who ernestly beleive that they "know" the "truth".
What is the difference between a cult and a religion?
If these people are breaking the law then they will be arrested and their cult / religion will be banned for sound legal reasons, in that case I agree. If they are not breaking the law then you will be banning them because they are a religion you dissagree with, this may open the flood gates (which may not necessarily be a bad thing; but as I said earlier, this has been tried before).

 

[Plotinus]

The difference between a cult and a religion is ill-defined and a moot point. You can argue back and forth whether Scientology is a cult, and if so whether the Catholic Church is a cult, until the cows come home. But that's not relevant. It's just argument about a word.

What matters is what these groups actually do, how much harm they do, and what their tactics are. As Pasi and Evertonian point out, Scientology goes way beyond any "mainstream" religion in its control over what members can and can't do, and it has far more negative effects. True, the Catholic Church has done great harm in the past, with episodes like the Crusades - but I think that is easily balanced by the great good it has also done - with characters like Francis of Assisi or Oscar Romero. That's simply not true of Scientology.

But I agree it can be very hard to draw the line. Jehovah's Witnesses endanger people by not allowing blood transfusions - should they therefore be banned? But they are not normally regarded as a "cult" or equally bad.

 

[test_specimen]

All religion has to be considered either a good business scheme or a good autocratic system. And people happyly follow it.

The funny thing about Scientology is, that they have so many movie stars as followers. Whe Tom Cruise promoted "Last Samurai" in Austria/Germany he did the usual press interviews. He mentioned some connection between religion and some aspects of the movie, when he was asked if he knows that Scientology is forbidden in Germany. He replied that the Germans are doing the same to Scientologists what they did to the Jews in and prior to WWII and that the mentality hasn't changed.

Unfortunately not enough movie-goers are motivated by such stupid and offensive statements to boycott a movie, but at least Tom Cruise prooved that Scientology doesn't actually "enlighten" you.

 

[Amenhotep7]

@classical hero

Yes, but I thought he didn't establish the church, he just preached what was at that time considered a different sect of Christianity.

 

[thestonesfan]

It can't be that dumb, John Travolta is a convert.

 

[Plotinus]

@classical hero

Yes, but I thought he didn't establish the church, he just preached what was at that time considered a different sect of Christianity.

It wasn't a matter of sects at that time. Paul preached one version of Christianity, James and Peter another. They weren't separate organisations. It was a very fluid situation, where the definitions had yet to be drawn. You can't point to any individual and say that they were the founder of Christianity, except for Jesus himself. If you had to name one of the leaders of the early church, it would probably be James, or maybe Peter. Paul seems more significant than he was because his letters survived, whereas they either wrote nothing or what they wrote has been lost. So Paul has had enormous influence over the subsequent course of Christianity.

 

[cgannon64]

Perhaps all the Hollywood Scientoligists should battle all the Hollywood Kabbalists in an update of that Monty Python skit...

 

[Iggy]

It can't be that dumb, John Travolta is a convert.

Watch Grease and Saturday Night Fever, then try and post the same comment.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Perhaps all the Hollywood Scientoligists should battle all the Hollywood Kabbalists in an update of that Monty Python skit...

We should just run Celebrity Deathmatch for real.

 

[Halcyon]

From the start, Scientology targeted celebrities, because celebrities tend be rich, stupid and influential. What better target can you get?

Perhaps all the Hollywood Scientoligists should battle all the Hollywood Kabbalists in an update of that Monty Python skit...

All for it. With lethal weaponry, of course.

 

[Pirate]

It's a pyramid money-making scheme- you earn money from the many under you and the few above you get yours. Not only that, the church mocks the gullibility of its own patrons. The symbol for the church or scientology is a PYRAMID for crying out loud!

 

[Amenhotep7]

Okay. New definition:
Scientology - Founded by a sci-fi writer to make money.

Christianity - Founded by Jesus, who made zip and died for his beliefs.

 

[Zeekater]

We should just run Celebrity Deathmatch for real.

Great idea!