Cities in Development (Obsolete)

[sss64sss]

Ok, so do you remember a long while back when I mentioned my Civlopedia said something like TXT_KEY_DISEASE and TXT_KEY_GOLD and it hovered over every page? I've been re-downloading civs, and it seems to show up whenever I enable CL's Australia. I don't know if any others cause it (I'm using all of Tomatekhs civs and so far they've all worked completely fine), but so far, it just seems to be that. Just figured I should mention I finally narrowed it down.

On a semi-related note, whenever I enable Leuigi's Israel, the little crown denoting my province level disappears. (Even when I'm not playing as Israel specifically). I don't think Israel's been updated for a while, so I'm assuming that's it. (I should probably just stick to whatever civs that have been updated/released in the last few months )

 

[JFD]

Leugi, the naughty thing, replaces the CityBannerManager file - a heavily modded file in CID. To fix, go to My Documents/My Games/Sid Meier's Civilization V/MODS/Israel Civilization/Incompatibility and delete the CityBannerManager.lua file.

Here, Leugi is fixing being able to click the city banner of a city captured by Barbarians and enter diplomacy with them, which, IIRC, yields a blank screen. Fortunately, CID includes this very fix, so you're not losing anything by deleting it.

 

[sss64sss]

Thanks, it works just fine now.

 

[Reedstilt]

I finally got around to playing a full game with RtP, CiD, ExCE, and Mercenaries (also Enlightenment and Events & Decisions) active - though I didn’t use Mercenaries at all. Here are some of my thoughts during the process.

Crime: I like how this works, though I am a bit confused about some of the particulars. Are the reductions from various buildings and policies the only thing that impacts the specific flavors of crime in each city? Do the city’s yields have any impact (a high Production city will have a greater percentage of Theft than other crimes, for example)? I found that Theft was the only significant crime in my cities, but was universally much higher than the rest (accounting for 30-40% of all Crime in each city), even after adopting the Policy to reduce Theft and building Chanceries in all my cities. I’m not sure if anything else actually impacting it that I’m unaware of.

I surprised to see that there weren’t any new Tenets dealing with Crime. On that front, once you get the health part of CiD up and running, I have a suggestion. Freedom gets “Decriminalization” that reduces Corruption, Drug Use, and Violence. Autocracy and Order get “Secret Police”, which reduces Theft, Treason, and Vandalism. And once Health is up and running, I hope you change how Universal Healthcare works too.

Never had to deal with Organized Crime though. Theft was the only crime that even came close to the 60% level for a Crime Organization to form. So I didn’t really have to deal with any of the ways to mitigate Organized Crime. I was glad to see that there was a new Resolution related to Crime, but since it wasn’t a problem I didn’t propose it. Before I noticed that was an option, though, I was mulling over the idea of what sort crime-related Resolution I’d like to see. I envisioned Established International Courts as an International Project. The highest contributor gets the Hague’s Peace Palace as a potent anti-Crime wonder, while the lesser contributors get appropriate bonuses. That’s a lot more work though, so I can see why you didn’t bother.

Side note - I think the Code of Laws National Wonder Decision should tinker with Crime too if you feel like adding in some more E&D support for Crime.

Colonies and Provinces: I only built one Colony in the game (I ended up on the same continent as Venice so I had plenty of room locally for most of the game). Luckily my treasuries were overflowing so I had not trouble making sure the Colony had everything I needed it to have. Though I didn’t get to use any of them, I like that there’s various bits of support of Colonies with revamped East Indies Company and a policy or two. No need for Ideology support here (not that I noticed any) since the decolonization Resolution comes at the same time. Of course, if you ever felt like adding the Hegemony and Doctrine Ideologies (New Imperialism and Fundamentalism) that Leugi and I had talked about quite some time ago, that’s another matter.

Provinces gave me a bit of trouble. I ended up using most of my magistrates to upgrade my cities. I shot myself in the foot with my placement of Trading Posts - I kept putting them in relatively unappealing locations that the Cities wouldn’t work automatically so they rarely upgraded (though I did very quickly have one town in the jungle exporting Feathers, which felt like cheating). Jungle Towns are the best, btw (probably too good, actually in comparison to Villages and Towns elsewhere). I wish there was something that made Villages and Towns more appealing to work since they’re required to upgrade the cities.Maybe if more Policy Trees gave Villages and Towns extra yields like Commerce does (the +1 Science from Free Thought should probably be moved to the Rationalism finisher for balance too). Tradition could give Food, Liberty could give Culture, etc.

Though really it was the Population require that ultimately hindered upgrading my Cities most. Only one of my five cities managed to make it to 25 Pop for a legitimate upgrade into a State by the Modern era. Admittedly, I had a lot of desert and no Petra to compensate. When do you intend for States to be commonplace in-game? Maybe I’m on track for what you had in mind, but I felt like by the Industrial era, I should have been get statehood without using my Magistrates for most cities. Maybe the requirement for State could be reduced to 20 Population instead of 25? Of course, once Great Doctors are added to the mix, maybe it won’t be so bad.

 

[JFD]

A basic explanation can be found here, but essentially, yes, if Production is highest in the city, so too will Theft be the highest.

Will prepare some tenets for the next update, and UH does indeed change in Health.

Peace Palace is a really awesome idea, and atm Resolutions don't appear to actually work (have enquired Pope Gazebo) - so a project-based resolution would be one workaround, as those appear to work. But with 'Jan is Dead' being the theme of the day, there is simply no hope for new wonders. I'll keep it in my back pocket though, in case I meet a genie or catch a smeargle.

I have reduced the pop. requirement for State-level to 20, but will probably seek to make Trading Posts et al. more appealing with Reforms - for instance, a reduction in how long it takes to upgrade them would be in order, but I'm not sure where in the SPs it would fit, so I'll save it for a Reform, otherwise Society Divided.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts

 

[Chrisy15]

In a game I was playing the other day, I noticed that Theft was a lot higher than all the other crimes - however, none of the crimes seemed to make a difference to the game, because I still managed to snowball out of control during the Modern era! I don't want to say that the penalties need to be more severe, but it might be necessary.

Despite this, I really wanted to lower my Theft just for satisfaction, but there doesn't seem to be a way other than Chanceries. Possibly a late-game building is required?

 

[Reedstilt]

What if, the higher your various Crimes get, the more likely it is that your City will spawn a Great Criminal (would probably be an Event - or a series of events - rather than an actual Great Person). A serial killer stalks your streets, reducing the Population (or maybe just Growth) of your City. A terrorist blows up one of your buildings. An assassin kills one of your Dignitaries. You might lose relevant Great People points when an merchant is caught embezzling, a scientist is exposed as a fraud, or a writer is arrested for plagiarism. A heretical prophet emerges and lowers your Piety / accumulated faith (though there is already an Event like that if I remember correctly). The events could come with varying levels of severity depending on how rampant your crime is, or they might just occur more frequently with higher Crime.

Whether they have options is another matter. I could see an option of appointing someone to investigate the crime (expending Magistrate resources based on the severity) for a chance of mitigating the effects. Or maybe there's two event triggers. First a Major Crime occurs and based on how many anti-crime effects are in the city, the criminal might be apprehended and awaiting justice (if there's a Justice branch in Reforms I could foresee some synergy here); or the criminal gets away and you have to deal with the second worst-case scenario effect.

 

[Natan35]

While this idea sounds intriguing, do we really need to complicate the negative aspects of the game? As if things aren't complicated enough already...

 

[JFD]

In a game I was playing the other day, I noticed that Theft was a lot higher than all the other crimes - however, none of the crimes seemed to make a difference to the game, because I still managed to snowball out of control during the Modern era! I don't want to say that the penalties need to be more severe, but it might be necessary.

Despite this, I really wanted to lower my Theft just for satisfaction, but there doesn't seem to be a way other than Chanceries. Possibly a late-game building is required?

It may be that the nerf to Crime rates has ultimately lessened the impact. I'll run an AI game and see for myself what they are at the end game, and might make some adjustments. I've been on the fence about the Harbour, so there's one potential place for some extra Crime.

Reforms will be the reserved opportunity, but I am adding Worker Councils as a Theft/Fraud/Treason reducing Ideological Tenet (probably the most OP of the three: Secret Police, Worker Councils, and Decriminilization). There is presently Commonwealth as well, however.

What if, the higher your various Crimes get, the more likely it is that your City will spawn a Great Criminal (would probably be an Event - or a series of events - rather than an actual Great Person). A serial killer stalks your streets, reducing the Population (or maybe just Growth) of your City. A terrorist blows up one of your buildings. An assassin kills one of your Dignitaries. You might lose relevant Great People points when an merchant is caught embezzling, a scientist is exposed as a fraud, or a writer is arrested for plagiarism. A heretical prophet emerges and lowers your Piety / accumulated faith (though there is already an Event like that if I remember correctly). The events could come with varying levels of severity depending on how rampant your crime is, or they might just occur more frequently with higher Crime.

Whether they have options is another matter. I could see an option of appointing someone to investigate the crime (expending Magistrate resources based on the severity) for a chance of mitigating the effects. Or maybe there's two event triggers. First a Major Crime occurs and based on how many anti-crime effects are in the city, the criminal might be apprehended and awaiting justice (if there's a Justice branch in Reforms I could foresee some synergy here); or the criminal gets away and you have to deal with the second worst-case scenario effect.

I had mulled over the idea of implementing the Bad Great People concept from a Civ IV mod, but, as Natan points out, this ultimately complicates things beyond what I intend. Crimes as it stands can be ignored, because the penalties aren't too substantial (except in certain cases), but you can't just ignore what you describe. Besides which, I think Events do enough to faciliate all of these extreme consequences of each particular Crime.

Ew, you reminded me that Detective Pikachu is a thing. My morning is ruined

 

[TranquilSilence]

Ew, you reminded me that Detective Pikachu is a thing. My morning is ruined

I just want to know how and why this has happened - I can't comprehend the true silliness of it.

Out of interest, is the production cost of the colonist unit also reduced by the Liberty Policy that reduces the cost of Settlers? (Collective Rule?)

 

[Kesler]

Ew, you reminded me that Detective Pikachu is a thing. My morning is ruined

Who hasn't wished for a Pikachu game where he talks in a deep manly voice

 

[JFD]

I just want to know how and why this has happened - I can't comprehend the true silliness of it.

Out of interest, is the production cost of the colonist unit also reduced by the Liberty Policy that reduces the cost of Settlers? (Collective Rule?)

Nope. Empires are not built by democracies

 

[Reedstilt]

]Crimes as it stands can be ignored, because the penalties aren't too substantial (except in certain cases), but you can't just ignore what you describe.

That's the thing though. I don't want to be able to ignore it. Though maybe I should play a game where I do completely ignore Crime and see what happens. Maybe I just built too many Jails, Constabularies, and Police Stations.

Besides which, I think Events do enough to faciliate all of these extreme consequences of each particular Crime.

I definitely think Events are the better way to go with it (rather than Bad Great People). Are there already Crime-related Events? I didn't get any last time.

Nope. Empires are not built by democracies

I'm sure Little Turtle, Crazy Horse, Geronimo, and Liliuokalani will be happy to hear they nothing to worry about from democratic Empire-building.

But really, this is why we need a Hegemony Ideology (New Imperialism) which would get bonuses to producing Colonists. Also need Doctrine (Fundamentalism) to fill out the Ideology set.

 

[JFD]

That's the thing though. I don't want to be able to ignore it. Though maybe I should play a game where I do completely ignore Crime and see what happens. Maybe I just built too many Jails, Constabularies, and Police Stations.



I definitely think Events are the better way to go with it (rather than Bad Great People). Are there already Crime-related Events? I didn't get any last time.



I'm sure Little Turtle, Crazy Horse, Geronimo, and Liliuokalani will be happy to hear they nothing to worry about from democratic Empire-building.

But really, this is why we need a Hegemony Ideology (New Imperialism) which would get bonuses to producing Colonists. Also need Doctrine (Fundamentalism) to fill out the Ideology set.

True, but it can be is the point - it's not demanding your attention quite as frequently as Piety, for instance. I think I just need to increase some of the Crime values to make it more impactful.

Yes, there's one event per Crime, although Mafia and Counterfeiting haven't yet been finished (and Treason's for the next update). Guess you just got unlucky/lucky I guess.

America? Democratic? Lel.
*aw poor Queen Lili*

 

[Reedstilt]

America? Democratic? Lel.

We're the poster child for Freedom! Civilization 5 told me so. I myself have had the privilege of choosing which of a handful of oligarchs will be lording over me until the End of Days.

 

[DarthStarkiller]

JFD forbidden of trading with America until Civ VI.

 

[Reedstilt]

Since you mentioned that International Projects do seem to work, when you get around to adding Health, can there be an "Eradicate Plague" modeled off the eradication of smallpox? Civs with at least Bronze level participation could get a significant boost to Plague Resistance. Those with Silver also get +1 Health from all Doctor Specialists. The Gold Contributor would be completely immune to Plague and receive a free Great Doctor.

Or something of that nature. Without having played around with the Health effects yet, I'm not sure how well balanced all that is.

 

[TranquilSilence]

Just experienced a CTD upon selecting the first option in the 'Insane Ruler' event - Previously I'd only ever used the latter option, utilising the most recent CP and CID. Anyone else experienced anything similar?

Edit; Just reloaded the game and didn't get the event - so I'm assuming that the logs I have now would be of no help.

But really, this is why we need a Hegemony Ideology (New Imperialism) which would get bonuses to producing Colonists. Also need Doctrine (Fundamentalism) to fill out the Ideology set.

Yeah, extra Ideologies would be awesome - wasn't there some issue with not being able to add more than the base three ideologies though?

 

[DarthStarkiller]

I have the feeling that adding more ideologies would be extremely problematic.

 

[Chrisy15]

Adding ideologies would rely entirely on the CHOOSE IDEOLOGY panel being dynamic... Anyone placing bets?