City State Empires

[ShiroKobbure]

Can city states have a good relation with two or more civs? I think Ryukyu, Korea, and Taiwan would work for both Japan and China, Since they have all either been colonies, tributaries or provinces of both countries. Also, it might work with Hong Kong being both Chinese and British and Jerusalem being Egyptian and Babylonian, and Persian.

 

[Szpilman]

By the way, you have Ryukyu and Okinawa, they are the same, Okinawa is the modern province and Ryukyu was the Kingdom.

If Taiwan goes to China, Palau could be a good replacement, it is the only other country that still has Japanese as an official language also, the flags are quite similar.

So Taiwan will be the expansive state near China, that starts with Taipei.
What about Korea represented by Seoul? China also? Or none? (I'd kinda like to give them to Japan)

So which could the expansive state/minor civ near Japan?
Ryukyu/Okinawa what would be the city? And for citizenship adjective?
Ezo can still be in?

 

[Szpilman]

Can city states have a good relation with two or more civs? I think Ryukyu, Korea, and Taiwan would work for both Japan and China, Since they have all either been colonies, tributaries or provinces of both countries. Also, it might work with Hong Kong being both Chinese and British and Jerusalem being Egyptian and Babylonian, and Persian.

Maybe it would be a worthy project to implement that down the road, but for now I think it will create too much complexity. Does it mean China & England will always have to start close to one another so they're just as close to HK?

I'd rather arbitrarily make some tough decisions on the grounds of the old Chinese adage "Gameplay > Realism", or so said Confucius.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

the Ryukyu were mostly peaceful. It's capital being Shuri. Ryukyuan is the adjective, the official name of the state would have been Rūchū kuku 琉球國, but I think Ryūkyū or Ryūkyū Kingdom would be fine.

Ezo, the Emishi lived in Tohoku, which is in the northern part of Japan's main island, but they were pushed to Ezo (Hokkaido) Hakodate was the capital of the ethnically Japanese Republic of Ezo, but since the Ezo in the mod is the territory controlled by the Ainu/Emishi, Sapporo, could work it is the modern capital of the Hokkaido prefecture, and is from an Ainu word. The Russian names for the islands above Japan are from the Ainu language, so those could be states for it to expand into.

Korea could be represented by the three kingdom period of Korea, Goguryeo (Militaristic) and Silla (Militaristic?) callied with China and Baekje (Cultured) allied with Japan.

I am not sure if this is the information you were asking for though.

Maybe it would be a worthy project to implement that down the road, but for now I think it will create too much complexity. Does it mean China & England will always have to start close to one another so they're just as close to HK?

I'd rather arbitrarily make some tough decisions on the grounds of the old Chinese adage "Gameplay > Realism", or so said Confucius.

I always prefer historical accuracy, which is why I usually only play on a world map, not a random one. I suppose that is how I just pictured this mod. But I'm not sure how you are planning to go about it.

 

[Szpilman]

the Ryukyu were mostly peaceful. It's capital being Shuri. Ryukyuan is the adjective, the official name of the state would have been Rūchū kuku 琉球國, but I think Ryūkyū or Ryūkyū Kingdom would be fine.

Ezo, the Emishi lived in Tohoku, which is in the northern part of Japan's main island, but they were pushed to Ezo (Hokkaido) Hakodate was the capital of the ethnically Japanese Republic of Ezo, but since the Ezo in the mod is the territory controlled by the Ainu/Emishi, Sapporo, could work it is the modern capital of the Hokkaido prefecture, and is from an Ainu word. The Russian names for the islands above Japan are from the Ainu language, so those could be states for it to expand into.

Korea could be represented by the three kingdom period of Korea, Goguryeo (Militaristic) and Silla (Militaristic?) callied with China and Baekje (Cultured) allied with Japan.

I am not sure if this is the information you were asking for though.

That's great information, thanks a lot!

I always prefer historical accuracy, which is why I usually only play on a world map, not a random one. I suppose that is how I just pictured this mod. But I'm not sure how you are planning to go about it.

Oh, I see. Well, you're in luck because there many people doing exactly those kinds of Earth maps 'round these parts (many of whom I owe some great city states!). So I'm taking a random placement approach (which is more to my liking as well), and that is exactly why it's taking me a while to release this mod. I'm digging through AssignStartingPlots.lua to make sure each Civ starts quite close to their respective city states (the other around, actually).

 

[Chiyochan]

Well, yeah, the mod is not meant as a kind of scenario where civs must unify their nations or rebuild from the ashes or something. I mean, if annexing the City States that start close to you and share some ethnicity is your thing, that's definitely a path you can take and surely many people will. There will actually even be two paths to it: first you can go to war and annex them by force, and futurely I plan to implement a level to be reached way above Ally, that essentially peacefully unifies the minor civ with yours. But you can just as well build up a lasting relationship and play alongside them. There are different benefits to both approaches. So flexibility is a major feature here. And the choice of states should try to reflect that by not drawing upon a too specific situation of history, if better options are available.

All of those things would be viable under my imagined concept of what was going on here, I think i specifically mentioned using diplomacy rather than just force, Either way though it doesn't really matter. I just think the unification adds an extra dimension to the whole thing instead of just picking random city states that are nearby the civ and spawning them around it. and added to that, I thought the best choices for city states would be states that where fairly important (compared to say, the island chain ryukyuu) to the civilization that where once outside of it but then integrated in some way, rather than just an equal band of states across a time line.

all in all its just my opinion and i thought it would be constructive and helpful for the project but it looks like we had different ideas about what this project was.

 

[Szpilman]

All of those things would be viable under my imagined concept of what was going on here, I think i specifically mentioned using diplomacy rather than just force, Either way though it doesn't really matter. I just think the unification adds an extra dimension to the whole thing instead of just picking random city states that are nearby the civ and spawning them around it. and added to that, I thought the best choices for city states would be states that where fairly important (compared to say, the island chain ryukyuu) to the civilization that where once outside of it but then integrated in some way, rather than just an equal band of states across a time line.

all in all its just my opinion and i thought it would be constructive and helpful for the project but it looks like we had different ideas about what this project was.

I think there's room for both. Civ is afterall about alternate history (the main randomized game at least is), so we're looking for relevant city states whether they did get unified or not ('cause they could have been).

Your opinion is very much appreciated and has been constructive to the project for sure. Discussion can only strengthen the ideas herein, and you can be sure I'll be reaching for bits of every good poster's knowledge here (which obviously includes you)

 

[Terrance888]

Songhai
zappara's Koumbi Saleh
Opera's Accra
Request: any suggestions?

Benin? It was a coastal forest kingdom dominating the lower Niger and trading with Songhai.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

Songhai, could be a cities to represent the kingdoms of Ghana, and the Kingdom of Mali. Benin is also good.

Not at all historical, but representing black Africa could also be the Kingdom of Kongo (Modern Angola), and the Zulu.

 

[Garett20]

I can try to add Benin to version 4 of extra city states.

 

[Szpilman]

Benin the Kingdom sounds great, though from a little wikipedia checking it would seem Abomey is the proper City State (being the heritage capital of Benin), no?

 

[ShiroKobbure]

Abomey is the capital of the Republic of Benin, the Benin Kingdom(s)'s capital would have been Ile-Ibinu, later called Benin city since the 15th century.

 

[Garett20]

Ile-ibinu it is.

 

[LrdCmdrSulla]

Byzantium, Ithaca, Nicaea, and Delia would be particularly good city-states for Greece.

 

[Tabris]

About USA i would suggest having neighboring nation, even if those were never really controlled by the USA. Vancouver, Mexico City, Havana, Puerto Rico and others are goods ideas.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

About USA i would suggest having neighboring nation, even if those were never really controlled by the USA. Vancouver, Mexico City, Havana, Puerto Rico and others are goods ideas.

Well Mexico city, comes from the word Mexica which was the region and people of the Aztec state.

 

[Darsnan]

So how has playtesting of your approaches gone to date?

My attempts at improving C-S gameplay by giving each C-S a second city via a second settler is not being allowed by the game because of the 1UPT rule (i.e. because of the way the game is coded the game tries to place two settlers on the same square, but then the 1UPT rule check kicks in and nixes it). FYI on this approach.

Pending your feedback, I am thinking of grouping all of the C-S into essentially three civs (military, culture, and food), as I am thinking this is the best approach for C-S as the game is more likely to place friendly/ allied C-S next to each other, and then take advantage of gifted starting units.

D

 

[Tabris]

Well Mexico city, comes from the word Mexica which was the region and people of the Aztec state.

I do know the origins of the worlds Mexico. But it's a little hard seeing Mexico as a sucessor to the Aztec Empire.

 

[Garett20]

Ok, I'm adding Byzantium to Extra City States, I got some requests for Jerusalem,Taipei, and Scythia as well

 

[R0GERSHRUBBER]

For a different take on the American city states, how about something like:
Austin (i.e. Republic of Texas), and maybe
St. Augustine (i.e. Spanish Florida)

Havana/Cuba had an important relationship with the US and Russia during the cold war.

I also think that Mexico City would be a good fit.