City State Empires

[Shiggs713]

version 2 of Shiggs Earth adds Carthage and Aksum if you want them.

 

[Szpilman]

Thanks for the help everyone!

Hm I personally wouldn't like hiding options, and I sure like to raze cities when needed =P

I understand the Lua API docs issue, but you could try a little trick, using PE Explorer as Cope said on his thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=386445 . Not that it will replace the documentation, never, but you can always learn something by example (I personally learn faster this way - by example -, but obviously with a manual in hand )

Best luck there

As I thought.. it's not a good workaround. Thanks for the pointer, I'll check PE or wait for Argentum Studios to release a non-official API this weekend ;P

Tyre and Sidon could potentially be Egyptian-tied city-states as well.

Extras for Babylon: Asshur, Ur

Ones that could be for Egypt or Babylon:
Jerusalem

Either Babylon or Persia:
Elam, Medes (check to make sure they're not Persian cities, Elam probably is)

Just Egypt:
Punt

You could consider giving Ragusa to Greece, just for geographic reasons. Consider giving the United States Rio.

Others for either the Iroquois or Americans or Aztecs:
Pueblo, Cherokee, Huron, Powhattan, Seminole, Souix (I'm naming tribes here, perhaps I can do some research and find actual city choices). Quebec, Ottowa, Buenos Aires, Havana, Bogota.
Sorry about name spam there. My suggestions for America are Buenos Aires, Bogota, and Manila. Any significant tribal ones and any Canadian ones can go to the Iroquois. The Aztecs are better off with mesoamerican ones like the Olmec, although the Hopi/Pueblo tribes might deserve inclusion in that area.

England:
Dublin, Edinburgh, Cardiff

For Siam, consider adding Angkor to the game (so the Khmer aren't left out in the cold). You could also give them my Manila suggestion from above.

Those are my suggestions at least.

I disagree on America getting South American city-states. It makes absolutely no sense, it was a colony just as their southern counterparts. I'm trying to go by ethnicity whenever possible, using geography only when not much choice is left. I really think America can get some Canadian ones like Vancouver.. maybe the east-side ones as well, while Iroquois would get other Native American tribes. I just need some city names instead of tribe names, I guess.

One civilization I'd like to make is Venice.

If so, you could remove both Venice and Ragusa (which would be a Venetian city) from Rome's list and add to it zappara's Milan

That's quite awesome! For a Civ to play well with my mod, though, it will need to bring it's own trio of City States to the game So maybe Milan, Ragusa & Florence for Venice?

[/LIST]
I´d use Tusca (Etruscan)/Tarentum (Greek) and Carthage. Drop Florence, Ragusa and Venice as they weren´t around until much later.

(...)

Sumer isn´t a city; I´d go with Ashur (traditional enemy) and Eridu (or some other Sumerian city).

(...)

Ecbatana was in Media, as Susa in Elam (both of which are already on the Persian city list). Nisa (Parni/Parthian city) and Taxila (Takashila in Indian) might be better.

So shouldn't Tarentum be under Greece itself? I'm still missing some for them, maybe some Macedonian City State for Greece then? What would you suggest?

You mean Nisa & Taxila would be good City States for Egypt? Just so I'm sure I understand it.

Okay, I'll add some Canadian, city states. Toronto will definetly be one of them.(check location)
also, I removed Havana from the final product and replaced it with Reykjavick
Edit: I replaced lagash with Eridu.

Guess I'll have to use Opera's Havana then
Also, Garett, I understand your mod is a sort of collaboration work, so as the producer let me know if any of your credited City States should also pay credit to someone else.

version 2 of Shiggs Earth adds Carthage and Aksum if you want them.

Thanks for dropping by and letting me know, Shiggs! Awesome!

I feel stupid for forgetting the names Ecbatana and Susa. I figured there was a good shot they were Persian. What about Ctesiphon? Or Sardis (Lydia), Gordium (Phyrgia), or Hattusa (Hittites).

Actually, Hattusa could be a decent choice for Babylon or Egypt as well.

Updated the first post with the new additions, hope I didn't miss anything--can't take all the suggestions either as I want to a) have three and only three for each Civ; b) take advantage of the built-in City States when possible to avoid creating new ones.

Now we just need some adjustments, AND Iroquois! Some Greece too.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

Greece:
Syracuse
Tyre
Cyrene
Macedonia (?) Strange with Alexander as the leader of the Greeks

From the Beaver Wars, possible city-states (actually tribes) for the Iroquois:
Mannahoac
Mahicans
Susquehannock

US:
Guam
Saipan
Liberia

 

[Louis XXIV]

I disagree on America getting South American city-states. It makes absolutely no sense, it was a colony just as their southern counterparts. I'm trying to go by ethnicity whenever possible, using geography only when not much choice is left. I really think America can get some Canadian ones like Vancouver.. maybe the east-side ones as well, while Iroquois would get other Native American tribes. I just need some city names instead of tribe names, I guess.

OK, perhaps I didn't understand the point of why you wanted to group them together. I connected them with South American city-states in the sense that US policy starting with McKinley was actively interventionist and the US quite often had troops in these territories and, when they didn't, still actively influenced their decisions. Ethnicity is difficult, since there's such a diversity of ethnic groups in the US.

About Canadian City-States, keep in mind that they've never had more than one city-state for a civ (with the only sorta exception with the Phoenicians, but they were independent city-states). Too many Canadian ones can create an odd change (when Ottowa and Vancouver start fighting each other, for example). I could see Quebec and one other Canadian city, but no more than that.

Now we just need some adjustments, AND Iroquois! Some Greece too.

I'll give some thought for Iroquois for tomorrow (I'll probably look at who they fought in the Beaver Wars, combined with notable North East American tribes).

For Greece, is Syracuse one of their cities? Sardis might be a Persian city, btw. If not, it's a potential City-State connected with Greece. Selucia might be one as well. I'm assuming somebody has to have Antioch (probably Rome). What about Pergamon, anyone have that? Greek successor kingdom in Asia minor. Associated with Rome as well, so it could be tricky (but ethnically Greek).

 

[Thalassicus]

This is a superb idea, will give regions more of a feel like they're tied together.

 

[Garett20]

I'll try to add Mannohoac to V.2

 

[Szpilman]

This is a superb idea, will give regions more of a feel like they're tied together.

I'll try to add Mannohoac to V.2

Is that the city or tribe's name?

Greece:
Syracuse
Tyre
Cyrene
Macedonia (?) Strange with Alexander as the leader of the Greeks

From the Beaver Wars, possible city-states (actually tribes) for the Iroquois:
Mannahoac
Mahicans
Susquehannock

US:
Guam
Saipan
Liberia

OK, perhaps I didn't understand the point of why you wanted to group them together. I connected them with South American city-states in the sense that US policy starting with McKinley was actively interventionist and the US quite often had troops in these territories and, when they didn't, still actively influenced their decisions. Ethnicity is difficult, since there's such a diversity of ethnic groups in the US.

About Canadian City-States, keep in mind that they've never had more than one city-state for a civ (with the only sorta exception with the Phoenicians, but they were independent city-states). Too many Canadian ones can create an odd change (when Ottowa and Vancouver start fighting each other, for example). I could see Quebec and one other Canadian city, but no more than that.

I'll give some thought for Iroquois for tomorrow (I'll probably look at who they fought in the Beaver Wars, combined with notable North East American tribes).

For Greece, is Syracuse one of their cities? Sardis might be a Persian city, btw. If not, it's a potential City-State connected with Greece. Selucia might be one as well. I'm assuming somebody has to have Antioch (probably Rome). What about Pergamon, anyone have that? Greek successor kingdom in Asia minor. Associated with Rome as well, so it could be tricky (but ethnically Greek).

Uhh.. actually Syracuse is there as an Iroquoian city.. so I guess.. yeah. Have to find another one.
Sardis is actually listed, but doesn't appear to be given to any Civ. That might mean they plan to, however. Pergamon is in the same situation.

Antioch and Selucia, unless there are alternate spellings, are actually available (this is just like domaining ). So, Greece?
Cyrene is also available

So, given we already have Troy, which other two do we get for Greece?

America
Hawaii is out: Honolulu is in the cities list, and more Hawaiian cities might be.
So is Alaska: Anchorage is already there (the capital is not, however..)

San Juan (Puerto Rico) is not in the list. Is there a more notable Puerto Rican city?
Guam is a nice idea, Dededo and Hagatna are not in the list.. is either a good option?

I think Vancouver might be a nice City State for America. I mean, It's right up there.
And then Quebec City & Ottawa could be good ones for Iroquois. The latter just sounds like an Iroquois name

 

[Louis XXIV]

Uhh.. actually Syracuse is there as an Iroquoian city.. so I guess.. yeah. Have to find another one.

Gah, it's an entirely different Syracuse! This is the one that Archimedes lived in. It's almost better to find a different Iroquois city, although that's probably more work.

Sardis is actually listed, but doesn't appear to be given to any Civ. That might mean they plan to, however. Pergamon is in the same situation.

Sardis and Pergamon have no other logical civs to give them too. Maybe if they added the Hittites, but I doubt they will. Pergamon might be spelled Pergamum, btw.

Antioch and Selucia, unless there are alternate spellings, are actually available (this is just like domaining ). So, Greece?
Cyrene is also available

Greece would be appropriate. Antioch was a long-lasting historically important city. Greece, Rome, or the Arabs all had influence over the city. But it was founded by the Greeks.

So, given we already have Troy, which other two do we get for Greece?

If you want geographic diversity, Troy, Antioch, and Cyrene would give you one in Turkey, one in Syria, and one is Libya or Egypt (too lazy to double check). All (with the exception of Illion/Troy) are Greek culturally.

America
Hawaii is out: Honolulu is in the cities list, and more Hawaiian cities might be.
So is Alaska: Anchorage is already there (the capital is not, however..)

San Juan (Puerto Rico) is not in the list. Is there a more notable Puerto Rican city?
Guam is a nice idea, Dededo and Hagatna are not in the list.. is either a good option?

I think Vancouver might be a nice City State for America. I mean, It's right up there.
And then Quebec City & Ottawa could be good ones for Iroquois. The latter just sounds like an Iroquois name

Ottowa is named after the Ottowa tribe. They're not an Iroquoian-speaking tribe, but I can see where the similarity could be seen. I'd argue, at a minimum, the Cherokee are an important native tribe that are better connected to the Iroquois. I'm trying to find a good city name. I think you could just use Cherokee (Cherokee, NC). EDIT: Or Tuskegee, the birthplace of Sequoya. EDIT Again: Or Keowee.

 

[Garett20]

I'm not sure if it's a city or a tribe. Somebody else suggested it so I'm trying to get more info.

 

[Shiggs713]

I would probably use Tuskegee, it is one of the most recognizable Cherokee areas, not even sure if you could call it a city though.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Tuskegee, AL might just be named after them looking more into it. Keowee (and technically Cherokee) are both city names, though, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Szpilman]

Great, I think Greece is good then. How do we go about America? Some U.S. territories, some Canada?

And on Iroquois let's see what comes within the next few days.

For anyone taking requests, see the first post. We're still missing City States for: Songhai (1), Egypt (1), Babylon (2), Greece (2), Japan (3), England (1), America (2), Iroquois (2). First post has suggestions on what those could be.
I'm working on the first release to make all this great collaborative work into something cool! Thanks everyone who made research & suggestions, and those who allowed their City States to be included

 

[Garett20]

Version 2 (now online, though some don't work, patch comes out tomorrow) includes Glasgow.

 

[Chiyochan]

Lhasa
zappara's Macau
zappara's Hong Kong

These need to be removed, or at least two of them, if youre going custom city states you may as well make them the three kingdoms and maybe some 3rd like the huns.

Garett20's Vancouver
Requests: some Puerto Rican, Guam, and or military bases?

Americas enemy will be the confederation of suix and mid west indian tribes You dont need them for iroque because you will have the component tribes of the iroque to take from instead

 

[yorkgrass]

it's pretty weird to put taiwan as a city state of japan though~ if you don't think taiwan is part of china, at least make it as a city state of china~ you can maybe use okinawa or shikotan island as city state for japan. ok, enough of the political crap, it's just a game~ don't take this too seriously.

 

[Darsnan]

I'm rounding up the first release for a mod that aims to make City States more competitive and expansive while not necessarily aggressive, amongst other very cool to be announced features (as I'm whipping up some Lua).

For now I want to set a roster with each Civ having 3 City States tied to it.

Hi Szpilman,

how did you arrive at the magic number of 3: was this thru playetesting, or are you just trying this value to see how it works? Also what files did you touch in order to implement this specific change of giving each CS 3 cities?

I'm going down a slightly different road in that I am giving each CS a defensive unit to start with. I think if I were to use this idea, and in addition use your idea of giving additional cities to each CS, should make them a more viable option. Currently I was thinking starting each CS with two cities (a Romulus and Remus approach so to speak) and see how that workds, but if you have already playtested and proven that 3 is better, then I'd like to hear about it.

D

 

[Szpilman]

Version 2 (now online, though some don't work, patch comes out tomorrow) includes Glasgow.

I've checked and it seems Glasgow is in the game's city list, though not tied to any Civ (yet?). Cardiff doesn't seem to be.

Lhasa
zappara's Macau
zappara's Hong Kong

These need to be removed, or at least two of them, if youre going custom city states you may as well make them the three kingdoms and maybe some 3rd like the huns.

Garett20's Vancouver
Requests: some Puerto Rican, Guam, and or military bases?

Americas enemy will be the confederation of suix and mid west indian tribes You dont need them for iroque because you will have the component tribes of the iroque to take from instead

Why do you feel Macau and HK can't be in?
(I actually just checked and Macau is listed in the game already, though gladly HK is not.)
Which cities would you suggest? Please denote in order of priority if possible

it's pretty weird to put taiwan as a city state of japan though~ if you don't think taiwan is part of china, at least make it as a city state of china~ you can maybe use okinawa or shikotan island as city state for japan. ok, enough of the political crap, it's just a game~ don't take this too seriously.

Right, Taiwan could be a City State of China. I definitely agree with not taking it all too seriously, to hell I say with governments and their political agendas (which change as easily as it's comfortable for them)

Hi Szpilman,

how did you arrive at the magic number of 3: was this thru playetesting, or are you just trying this value to see how it works? Also what files did you touch in order to implement this specific change of giving each CS 3 cities?

I'm going down a slightly different road in that I am giving each CS a defensive unit to start with. I think if I were to use this idea, and in addition use your idea of giving additional cities to each CS, should make them a more viable option. Currently I was thinking starting each CS with two cities (a Romulus and Remus approach so to speak) and see how that workds, but if you have already playtested and proven that 3 is better, then I'd like to hear about it.

D

Hi Darsnan! I think we're doing it even more differently: I'm having each Civ have three different City States related to them, not a single City State with three cities. So unfortunately I haven't playtested that which you're interested in. I plan on allowing City States to found and conquer more often, so when I have feedback on that I'll be glad to offer it.

I actually want the number 3 to be able to scale: 2 is my ideal number, but if the player sets up the slider so that there are enough CS as to give three to each Civ, then that's how it's gonna play out.

 

[Thrallia]

any plans on adding more types of city states? eg. scientific or economic CS's also rather than just the three types included in the game.

 

[Opera]

That can't be done without modifiying the dll.

 

[Szpilman]

What she said
Still I'll take a look at what can be done with Lua hacks, who knows