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Civ 5 digital deluxe coming exclusively to Steam! Steamworks confirmed!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Tamed, May 6, 2010.

  1. isndl

    isndl Chieftain

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    There's never been a "standardized" way to port games, especially when you're not using a virtual machine like Java or .NET. When compiling spits out different results for each operating system, problems will occur.

    There are ways of simplifying the process, of course. Using OpenGL instead of DirectX means you're building upon a graphics framework that doesn't have to be ported. And since the Mac now uses x86 CPUs, there's a lot fewer problems that can arise from hardware differences.

    It all comes down to whether or not the developers left themselves room to build for multiple operating systems. DirectX is very attractive, as Microsoft has sunk a lot of money and effort into making it work well and have a large feature base. OpenGL doesn't have nearly the same investment made in it, despite being free. Of course, given that CiV doesn't need the latest and greatest in graphics like every new iteration of the FPS genre, OpenGL could suit its needs perfectly.
     
  2. xenobiotic

    xenobiotic Chieftain

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    LOL Good luck cracking a game that requires steam with that technique. Let me know how that goes.

    Find me patch for HL2 or Dawn of war 2 from your favorite site to download patches. Not exactly as easy as 'all games' eh?
     
  3. The Almighty dF

    The Almighty dF Pharaoh

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    1. It's not that much harder to crack Steam-required games. Look at Audiosurf.

    2. Those can be found as well, actually. Just not from the usual sites.
     
  4. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    Companies don't use DRM and Steam like requirements to stave off piracy, they do it to stave off the after-market resale of their games. Every game sold by a person to someone else (on eBay for instance) means that the company had a potential 'lost sale'.

    This is why Ubisoft has implemented their horrendous methods. They well know that these games will be cracked quickly. So it is easy to see that this is not the reason why.

    I sure will not buy a game on digital download only. I am semi-familiar with Steam; but will not purchase a game that requires me to create an account in order to use offline what I just purchased.

    Is Steam horrible? No... It's just like other programs (from Stardock e.g.) that require similar things. Not my cup of tea.
     
  5. Savoir10

    Savoir10 Warlord

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    I actually agree with you on this. However, as I have never re-sold a Civ game, nor will I ever, in this case it's not a concern to me.
     
  6. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    I like Valve as a developer company. I don't need to use Steam, but its an okay system and it works well for many people.

    That being said, I do not think that it is beneficial for any one provider to hold a monopoly over computer gaming. I would like to share with you the following post below.

    This has got to be the first Straw Man argument someone has actually said. To spell it out for you when you said

    "Steam is being used as the fundamental basis for all the online content, data distribution, multiplayer and purchase verification." I nearly ROFLMAO'd ...

    Precicely because it is Steam's pursuit of making Computer Gaming a unified and closed system which brings about all of the irrationality out of the woodwork. Making Computer Gaming a closed system (everything through Steam-or any other single provider) simply invalidates, for most people, all of the extra headaches that come with PC gaming.

    The very fact that Steam is openly pursuing a Closed System, and that you subconsciously realize this, say it, and is perfectly okay with it, tells me that you see the PC as just another console. If the PC was just another console then I would gladly use the OTHER consoles primarily, that do their job a whole lot better on average.

    It is the freedom and diversity of Computer gaming that makes system far more than just a simplified console. As others have stated, many free and independent programs can do the non-game aspects of Steam just as well or better than Steam does.

    While I respect Valve from a game development standpoint, their publishing and business practices as a whole leave a bad taste in my mouth. Computer gaming is not meant to be simplified and lorded over under one authoritarian government (Steam). Computer gaming is meant to have a variety of various independent companies vying for the interest of the Consumer with better functionality.

    Its simple free market vs closed market. For making the PC into a closed system makes it a closed market ... which means that instead of liking companies X, Y, and Z, you either like the PC or you don't like it .... just like you like the X-box or don't like it, because the publishing, marketing, and virtual community is all the same, and thus geared towards largely the same kind of player. The console player*.

    I like consoles a lot, but computers are meant to be different. Draconian systems for Console games ported to the computer are reasonable, while doing the same on PC only games is a serious breach of the spirit of Computer gaming as a whole.

    Moderator Action: Please don't SPAM the forum with the same post in multiple threads
     
  7. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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  8. Avs

    Avs Warlord

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    So now that the Steam Mac client is out, I still see CiV listed as windows only. And the waiting continues.
     
  9. Hail

    Hail Satan's minion

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    the cake is a lie!
     
  10. Rebel44

    Rebel44 Warlord

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    Availability of Mac version depend on developer/publisher.
     
  11. Avs

    Avs Warlord

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    Some dude created a thread about pros/cons/myths of Steam on the 2k forums.

    http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70539

    I've noticed a few people actually wanting to know how Steam works. As information is pretty hard to dig out in the Steam Discussion thread, I figured I'd compile a list of pros cons and myths. Feel free to make suggestions of additions to the below! I'll try updating this based on your input.

    http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/english/


    Pros
    • You can download the game an unlimited amount of times from Steam. Meaning you don't have to worry about backing up the game files whenever you get a new computer, are reinstalling your OS or simply for some reason want to delete the game for a while.
    • Steam works as a DRM, effectively removing the need to add other DRM to the game.
    • Steam handles updating and patching of your game.
    • Bug Reporting. Bugs and crashes can quickly be reported to the developers. This allows them to get more information about the problems with the game, and hopefully also release patches/updates faster to fix it.
    • Steam is under constant development. Bugs and other issues with Steam can be reported to Valve and hopefully fixed. We might also see general improvement in the general online framework Steam provides.
    • Everyone will in theory be connected to the same online community through the game. This will hopefully make it easier to distribute mods and to find games online.
    • Steamworks provides a framework for a lot online functionality for the game.
    • Access to the Steam Community, for achievements, leaderboards, profiles, avatars, friends lists, text chat, voice chat and forums.
    • Framework for Downloadable Content (DLC), both free and (lacking a better word) non-free.
    • Multiplayer matchmaking. Play with other players around your level.
    • Cheat Detection. Cheaters are banned from dedicated servers (that are connected to the anti-cheating.
    • Access from any computer. As long as you've got your account information, you can play the game from any computer (not at the same time, of course). You can also save your games in the Steam cloud, thus having access to your save from any computer as well.
    • While many of these things could potentially be developed in-house (by Firaxis), making use of Steamworks lets them spend their resources on other parts of the game. As these modules have already been tested and improved through the use in several other games, it is likely to be more reliable.

    Cons
    • You need a Steam account to play your game, and therefore also need to accept Steams end user license agreement (EULA).
    • You need to download the Steam client (1.5MB) and update it (a little more) to be able to play your game. I guess the client might be distributed with retail versions of the game, but it still needs to be updated during installation.
    • The Steam Client needs to be running whenever you play a Steam game. It could be in offline mode, of course, but will still require about 10MB memory resources.
    • In order to activate or update the game, you need to go online.
    • As civ is requiring Steam, you are forced into somewhat supporting a third party company (Valve) in order to play the game.
    • You can only be online with your account with one computer at a time. This means that if several in your family/household wants to play a Steam game at different computers at the same time, you need more accounts (and thus more licenses if you want to play the same game). The exception is if everyone (or all but one) are offline.
    • Steam provides DRM. Unless you already realized it, the above works as DRM. Yes, 2K are not distributing Civ5 DRM-free, if you were hoping for that.
    • I think I've read about some issues where Steam wouldn't allow offline play until the client was properly updated. That is, the last time it was online it found an update, but didn't get to download it (because you closed the app first). Haven't experienced this myself, though. If this is a problem, I'm sure Valve are getting loads of complaints about it and are working on a fix.
    • If Valve goes bankrupt or otherwise decides so, they will no longer support the game through the application. They have said that they'll unlock all games that will no longer be supported. As long as they don't break their word on this, we will be safe.
    • Unless you are an authorized reseller for Valve, reselling Steam games is not possible. Also, transferring/selling your whole account is not allowed. While this could potentially change in the future, there have been no indication of this at the present time.

    Myths
    • You need to be online in order to play the game - Wrong. You only need to be online during installation, activation and when updating. Unless the publisher (2K) requires so, you'll then be able to play while offline.
    • You need to be online in order to start Steam. - Wrong. If you're not online, Steam asks whether you want to go offline or try again. Unless of course Steam was already set to offline mode the last time you used it.
    • Losing connection throws you out of the game - Wrong. I've tested, and nothing really happens.
    • You'll be stuck with lots of Steam ads. - Wrong. You can disable the ads, and won't even need to open the Steam client UI in order to play. Anyhow, you can also easily set your homepage to the games library (as opposed to the store).
    • Steam and Steamworks is extremely buggy and have loads of problems - At least partially wrong. While you'll find lots of threads about problems with Steam around the web, most of these have already been fixed. Steam has improved a whole lot lately, and is continuing to improve. As any other program you can probably find something that isn't perfect, but all in all Steam is pretty reliable. Also, Valve is continually developing and improving the application. As most of us have already experienced how Civ4 and CivRev worked online, I think we should appreciate that Firaxis are making use of a tested and tried framework for their game.
    • Steam games are less moddable than other games - Wrong. Steam games are just as moddable as other games. I know this from experience, as I've got a Steam version of Civ 4. If a game is less moddable, that is entirely the developers choice of implementation.
     
  12. Toni1

    Toni1 Warlord

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    What tangible benefits does steam provide for single player only, always offline player (when game is run = no internet connection)?
     
  13. cardgame

    cardgame Sensual Kitten

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    non-intrusive DRM?
     
  14. ArcadicGamer

    ArcadicGamer Warlord

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    The ablility to install from any location on any machine with the use of a simple id and password? An unlimited amount of times?
     
  15. The Almighty dF

    The Almighty dF Pharaoh

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    No having to keep up with CDs and cd-keys.
    Steam's also great if you like old games that don't normally work well on XP and up. For example, KotoR through Steam is pretty much the only way most people will get to play KotoR on PC, since the actual PC port is so unstable. Same goes for some of their DOS games, which I've found work better than through normal DOS box (I guess Steam has their own special front-end.)
     
  16. Toni1

    Toni1 Warlord

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    You are joking right? Steam, Impulse, GfWL et all are extremely intrusive and in my opinion only barely below the ubisoft constant internet requiring, save games in server saving crap.

    (copy protection/cd keys - disk check - driver based drm - interntet activation/client requiring - ubisoft model)

    Oh and before anyone mentions it, auto updates does not help us either. Standalone patches are way better and more convenient.

    GOG.com is far superior to steam in case of older games. They actually provide compatibility fixes/tweaks and handle support for all their games (note all their games are old, it's what service is designed for). I suggest you visit GOG.com right now if you enjoy old games like I do (It has number of other benefits like no DRM policy, prepatching to latest version, download installer and install anywhere among other things. See here for further details). As for dos games, they are probably just preconfigured doxbox installations like in GOG.com. And last time I checked KOTOR worked perfectly but might be HW/Driver compatibility issues, I've had my share even with XP Pro SP3(some games have had with my radeon x1950). Still, best compatibility insurance is keeping XP by long shot (my desktop OS).
     
  17. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    At least Impulse (when I used it) allowed the person to decide to put their game info in to patch it... no choice here, must be online or you are screwed. Then you can't return open software to store, can't send it to Firaxis for refund, can't sell it 2nd-hand because the DRM is meant to combat 2nd-hand resell... so either you get screwed, or the poor person that bought it from you gets screwed, by having to make another purchase from Firaxis to play the game they just bought.

    2K and Firaxis viewpoint is: "How much can we screw over our loyal consumers that keep us in business".
     
  18. The Almighty dF

    The Almighty dF Pharaoh

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    I actually use both GOG and Steam, since there's several games that one has that the other doesn't, and vice versa (HoMM one one, X-Com on another, Rainbow Six 1 on one, the rest of the R6 series on the other, etc.). Also yeah, KotoR... suffers mainly from video card compatability issues. Especially for those of us that use nvidia cards.
    Sadly, 360s don't even offer full backwards compatability for the xbox port, it -lags- so badly that combat becomes difficult. So steam's become my one way of playing KotoR without replacing my video card.
     
  19. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    The same can be accomplished with a cd/dvd -game not using DRM.

    Reading the list by Avs none of the pros are really a plus in my book but then none of the cons are really a serious con either so I don't have a problem with it from what I've learned so far.
     
  20. Toni1

    Toni1 Warlord

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    Good for you. I prefer waiting and hoping that all games I want eventually end at GOG.com even if it takes months or years. I also like to support their business model unlike Valve's Steam that I actually find dangerous and monopolistic (I prefer world where all DD services have all games [Like retail stores] and customers are the ones that choose where to buy their games and what service to support).

    In my cards case (Radeon X1000 series issue it seems) it's Gothic 1 and ALTAR's UFO game(s, just one of them so far, havent thested others yet) so far.
     

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