Civ 5 digital deluxe coming exclusively to Steam! Steamworks confirmed!

[civ_king]

Valve is going to make a tidy profit off Mac users

 

[isndl]

Its worth remembering that theres probably 30% more content in L4D2 as compared with 1 and they're doing some clever free support for it. Its obviously a fully fledged sequel and not just a collection of patches/expansion content.

I never claimed that L4D2 didn't have the content of a full game; I only said it was where all the content promised for L4D1 ended up. The support for L4D2 is remarkably better in nearly every aspect, but that doesn't excuse them for their handling of L4D1, especially with their silence on the matter throughout the process.

Basically, having been spoilt (and continuing to be so) by TF2, valve's fans had a tantrum at their company not giving them huge quantities of free stuff in all their games. Hell, some kind of update went through on the Half Life series yesterday and I know theres a sizeable Counterstrike upgrade in beta testing right now.

I haven't heard of any tantrum over lack of content for Valve's other games, just discontent over how long it's taking for Episode 3 to come out. Do you regularly visit the Steam forums? I believe I've seen you frequenting the ET:QW one before it went down, but that's a different place entirely.

 

[MaxCiv]

Not that I'm complaining that a bunch of my PC games are getting a free upgrade to a better game engine, but they do have a profit motive there.

This may be surprising, but the motive behind all game companies, like any other company, is profit... how shocking!

 

[White Elk]

From the Civ5 pitch at the Steam Store...

The game itself now serves as the hub of community activity, featuring the ability to share scenarios, compare scores, brag about achievements and visit one of the thriving Civ fansites without leaving the game.

How does that reconcile with Steams recommendation to disable anti-virus applications when running Steam connected games?

We encourage protecting your PC from viruses, spyware and other forms of malicious software. However, it is not necessary to run anti-virus and other security applications while you are engaged in playing a game on Steam.

I disagree with the statement that AV programs are unecessary when playing Steam games. Afterall, our firewalls are subject to be randomly pinged for vulnerabilities everytime we are connected to the net. But we are especially vulnerable as we navigate websites. Banner ads can contain attack code. And viewing screenshots of user mods etc can infect us. Why does Steam suggest playing Russian Roulette with our system security by turning off our AV programs? Or am I missing something?


EDIT: Point of fact. Users at this site have reported virus infections caused by banner ads. It's just the nature of the beast. The CFC staff here, and the forums host, have responded in an appropriate and timely manner. They do what they can. Kudos to them for that. But it does happen. Turning off your AV in order to run a piece of software, and then using that software to navigate the web cannot be a wise idea!?!

 

[Chalks]

I disagree with the statement that AV programs are unecessary when playing Steam games. Afterall, our firewalls are subject to be randomly pinged for vulnerabilities everytime we are connected to the net. But we are especially vulnerable as we navigate websites. Banner ads can contain attack code. And viewing screenshots of user mods etc can infect us. Why does Steam suggest playing Russian Roulette with our system security by turning off our AV programs? Or am I missing something?

The obvious assumption here is that the only thing you are doing is running Steam.

They didn't mean to turn off your virus scanner while playing steam and simultaneously surfing porn on an unpatched version of IE6.

They are saying that malicious code cannot be transmitted to your system via the Steam platform. This may well be true, but I'd always be wary about relying on such assurances.

Regardless, as soon as you are running any other application that can contain vulnerabilities their advice becomes invalid. They are saying that if you have a secure system and then run Steam on it, it becomes no less secure.

 

[White Elk]

The obvious assumption here is that the only thing you are doing is running Steam.

They didn't mean to turn off your virus scanner while playing steam and simultaneously surfing porn on an unpatched version of IE6.

They are saying that malicious code cannot be transmitted to your system via the Steam platform. This may well be true, but I'd always be wary about relying on such assurances.

Regardless, as soon as you are running any other application that can contain vulnerabilities their advice becomes invalid. They are saying that if you have a secure system and then run Steam on it, it becomes no less secure.

Read what I wrote. I speak not of randomly surfing the web, but of using the community features pitched by Steam. Specifically "visit one of the thriving Civ fansites without leaving the game". Steam clearly states that "it is not necessary to run anti-virus and other security applications while you are engaged in playing a game on Steam." They said that. This is bad advice whenever you are running Steam in online mode. It becomes especially dangerous advice when you use Steams community hub features to visit fan sites. I for one see the danger immediately, and if I ever were to use Steam and it conflicts with my AV, I would NOT disable it. I would toss the game along with Steam first. But I've no doubt that some users will disable their AV as suggested by Steam and become infected as a result.

Steams credibility suffers another hit. This matters to me because I seek to do my due diligence before investing time and money into a piece of potentially buggy software. Buyer beware and all that. Thus far, and for a variety of different reasons, Steam does not strike me as a good bet.

 

[Sterf]

Read what I wrote. I speak not of randomly surfing the web, but of using the community features pitched by Steam. Specifically "visit one of the thriving Civ fansites without leaving the game".

You can surf the entire web ingame through the steam-overlay, just to clarify. You don't have to leave the game, and thus you can randomly surf the web in the game.

And just one thing about this virus thingie, you'd better complain to the anti-virus developers for coming up with false positives with steam. I use NOD32 myself, listed as having made false positives, but have never experienced any trouble. It's like when Norton destroyed all these windows installations by removing a critical system file due to a false positive. You'd hardly blame Microsoft for that would you.

If you're just playing a game, a disabled AV won't make a difference. And if you'd rather keep it on in the very unlikely event this would be a problem to you, in that link are instructions on fixing every AV that has these issues.

 

[Chalks]

Read what I wrote. I speak not of randomly surfing the web, but of using the community features pitched by Steam. Specifically "visit one of the thriving Civ fansites without leaving the game". Steam clearly states that "it is not necessary to run anti-virus and other security applications while you are engaged in playing a game on Steam." They said that. This is bad advice whenever you are running Steam in online mode. It becomes especially dangerous advice when you use Steams community hub features to visit fan sites. I for one see the danger immediately, and if I ever were to use Steam and it conflicts with my AV, I would NOT disable it. I would toss the game along with Steam first. But I've no doubt that some users will disable their AV as suggested by Steam and become infected as a result.

Steams credibility suffers another hit. This matters to me because I seek to do my due diligence before investing time and money into a piece of potentially buggy software. Buyer beware and all that. Thus far, and for a variety of different reasons, Steam does not strike me as a good bet.

Playing a game on steam. Not browsing websites.

Steam does not conflict with AV software I've used. I am not aware of any conflicts. I doubt you have experienced any either.

Is it fun trawling the internet for every single gripe any member of humanity has ever thought up against the platform and posting it? You're just looking for things to complain about.

You can find things that people have said about any product that are technically incorrect if you pick them apart.

You're just ranting without direction or purpose. So someone at Valve gave some advice ages ago that is technically no longer 100% true due to newly released functionality in a game that's not even released yet. Who cares. Seriously. How is this even slightly important.

 

[MaxCiv]

From the Civ5 pitch at the Steam Store...



How does that reconcile with Steams recommendation to disable anti-virus applications when running Steam connected games?



I disagree with the statement that AV programs are unecessary when playing Steam games. Afterall, our firewalls are subject to be randomly pinged for vulnerabilities everytime we are connected to the net. But we are especially vulnerable as we navigate websites. Banner ads can contain attack code. And viewing screenshots of user mods etc can infect us. Why does Steam suggest playing Russian Roulette with our system security by turning off our AV programs? Or am I missing something?


EDIT: Point of fact. Users at this site have reported virus infections caused by banner ads. It's just the nature of the beast. The CFC staff here, and the forums host, have responded in an appropriate and timely manner. They do what they can. Kudos to them for that. But it does happen. Turning off your AV in order to run a piece of software, and then using that software to navigate the web cannot be a wise idea!?!

I use Kaspersky now and used av from other vendors in the past and never had a problem with Steam or games on Steam.

I think that page it's more of troubleshooting information than a "you must do this" requirement. If you check FAQs of most online games you will see that disabling AV is one of the first steps suggested.

 

[White Elk]

Playing a game on steam. Not browsing websites.

Correction: Visiting thriving Civ fansites without leaving the game.

Is it fun trawling the internet for every single gripe any member of humanity has ever thought up against the platform and posting it? You're just looking for things to complain about.

You can find things that people have said about any product that are technically incorrect if you pick them apart.

You're just ranting without direction or purpose. So someone at Valve gave some advice ages ago that is technically no longer 100% true due to newly released functionality in a game that's not even released yet. Who cares. Seriously. How is this even slightly important.

These Steam discussions are important to me as I make the decision to buy or pass on the latest release from a beloved game franchise. With the sporadic exception of an open sourced TBS game engine based on the Axis and Allies board game, Civ is basically the ONLY game I play. Its the only gaming entertaiment I seek. But now it may have a bit of something that I want no part of. This decision is important to me. So I discuss and I research and I spend time becoming informed.

Your involvement in these debates however, fits the profile of someone trolling for arguements. I don't get your motivation, methods, or purpose. And no, it is not fun wasting time with the likes of you. And it is no fun spending time tracking down answers to my Steam related questions. But that at least is somewhat productive, though perhaps not cost effective. I'd forseen spending a great many hours over a few years playing Civ5. But from what I've gathered about Steam, there is high enough potential that a chunk of my available gaming hours could be plagued by a buggy 3rd party application for which I have no use for. I came into this thinking that GameSpy was error and frustration ridden. But at least it never affected my Single Player games. With Steam its different. Steam cannot be ignored or opted out. Buyer beware.

 

[Chalks]

Correction: Visiting thriving Civ fansites without leaving the game.

No, that's not what it says, it says "playing the game". You can't just change the words of the quote then say "see, now it's wrong!".

 

[Senethro]

Its also worth noting that White Elks link was to a page for people having AV problems with Steam. Turning off your AV wihle playing games was not a general recommendation made, but a specific one. The Anti-Steam crew are really trying hard to take rare situations and quotations that are out of context and scare people with them.

 

[White Elk]

I use Kaspersky now and used av from other vendors in the past and never had a problem with Steam or games on Steam.

I think that page it's more of troubleshooting information than a "you must do this" requirement. If you check FAQs of most online games you will see that disabling AV is one of the first steps suggested.

I respect the relation of your experiance. But in the whole it means little. With Civ4 some people reported problems running the game, while others said they were full of it because they personally never encountered any problems. Meanwhile Firaxis continued an attempt to fix the MAF and other errors. And people updated their drivers and lowered graphics settings and managed other applications to not run while Civ4 was running etc. The problems did exist. People were dealing with them. Yet there was no shortage of people trolling around the troubleshooting threads saying that Civ4 ran fine for them so just stfu already.


The reason this particular subject (turning off the AV) has attracted my interest; is that Steam would have an open door into my machine. That is a huge trust factor. Reading a Steam statement that "it is not necessary to run anti-virus and other security applications while you are engaged in playing a game on Steam" does not give me the kind of confidence I need when deciding if I should allow their application to run on my machine. Forget about using the community hub feature. Turning off your AV while being connected to the net is not wise. You will be subject to random probes searching for open doors. Steams statement does not give me confidence in their security practices.


EDIT:

Its also worth noting that White Elks link was to a page for people having AV problems with Steam. Turning off your AV wihle playing games was not a general recommendation made, but a specific one. The Anti-Steam crew are really trying hard to take rare situations and quotations that are out of context and scare people with them.

Indeed it is troubleshooting advice. But in it they make a standalone statement that security applications do not need to be run while playing games using Steam. People encountering problems using Steam, and there are many, will be subject to this advice. It is bad advice. Better to unistall Steam and lose the money invested on the games than to disable your AV while connected to the net.

 

[Senethro]

And its not a standard practice.

 

[Sterf]

This forum has 'complaining hypothetical problems before the fact' perfected to an artform. For all you know Civ V with no-steam would make your computer explode. Where is it written that it won't?

 

[PieceOfMind]

Since we know as a fact that Civ5 will use Steam, and we know for a fact that various problems exist with Steam now, it is not that much a leap of faith to say there could be similar problems with Steam when we play civ5. That's not hard to understand. You don't have to agree the problems are major or even minor, if you don't want.

In other words, we are not merely dealing with hypotheticals if we already have the Steam platform to test right now.

If civ5 made your computer explode, I would definitely boycott it.

 

[White Elk]

Playing a game on steam. Not browsing websites.

Correction: Visiting thriving Civ fansites without leaving the game.

No, that's not what it says, it says "playing the game". You can't just change the words of the quote then say "see, now it's wrong!".

Save for my addition of "-ing" and subtraction of "one of the", that is EXACTLY what it says!



Again:

...and visit one of the thriving Civ fansites without leaving the game.

The full sentance:

The game itself now serves as the hub of community activity, featuring the ability to share scenarios, compare scores, brag about achievements and visit one of the thriving Civ fansites without leaving the game.

The full blurb:

In-Game Community Hub: Compete with Civ players from all over the globe via the Internet or compete locally in LAN matches, offering endless ways to rule the world. The game itself now serves as the hub of community activity, featuring the ability to share scenarios, compare scores, brag about achievements and visit one of the thriving Civ fansites without leaving the game. It's now easier than ever for players to become involved in the global Civ Community.

That first sentance speaks to Multi-player aspects of the game. The other sentances are independant of the first. They all fall under the heading of Community Hub. But the sentance I quoted from has nothing to do with playing the game beyond mention of the ability to share scenarios. The rest of the info all relates to socializing about the game NOT playing it. The bit I quoted was in context to my point. You attempt to strawman that point. Then you say it is I who is changing the content of the quote. Bug off troll, I've had my fill of you!

 

[White Elk]

This forum has 'complaining hypothetical problems before the fact' perfected to an artform. For all you know Civ V with no-steam would make your computer explode. Where is it written that it won't?

What part of buyer beware do you not understand? For some of us our purpose here is to decide if we are willing to install an extra piece of software on our systems. Installing Civ5 was a no-brainer for me. I've had my experiance with Civ bugs, belated patches, and overblown marketing hype; but upon hearing news that it was to be released this fall, I made the decision to pre-order it through CivFanatics before I read anything about the new features. I'll take the high potential that Civ5 will be buggy upon release because the software provides something I desire.

Then I learn that an extra bit of software is required so I take a step back and begin looking into the reliability and security of that software. I research the company and I read what the users are saying about it. I grow concerned over a variety of aspects of it and I discuss this with my fellow CivFanatics. Some of us are once bitten twice shy as relates to installing buggy software bundled within our games. The experiance of GameSpy comes leaping to mind. And some of us had problems running Civ4 despite running it on machines well above the advertised min specs. So the news that an additional program would be running ontop of Civ5 is a concern for some. For others, myself included, I currently have poor internet service. Reading reports that Steams offline mode is buggy is of concern to me. Some of us have a problem with buying something that requires internet validation. And on and on.

So you don't care. Fine. Stay out of the discussions then!

 

[Senethro]

So because they say one thing on a rare problem tech support page, and a thing that is illadvised in conjunction on some advertising page, Steam is bad?

More selective than some readings of the Bible.

 

[PieceOfMind]

The following thread seems to prove that if your account gets disabled due to suspected credit card fraud or whatever reason, Valve generally do not even let you know why it has been disabled. It appears the onus is on the customer to contact customer support asking why their account has been disabled.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1286346

Valve on this issue:

WHY WOULD A STEAM ACCOUNT BE DISABLED?

Check the contact e-mail address for your Steam account to see if Steam Support has contacted you regarding the reason your account was disabled - accounts may be temporarily disabled pending verification of purchase information or account ownership.
Steam Support does not automatically contact the owners of disabled accounts in most circumstances.
There is a Zero-Tolerance policy for any violations of the Steam Subscriber Agreement and Online Code of Conduct. All accounts in a user's possession for any of the following activities will be disabled:

<snip>

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=5406-WFZC-5519

Not passing any judgement at this time, just revealing some info for people to consider.