Civ 5 digital deluxe coming exclusively to Steam! Steamworks confirmed!

[Chalks]

They can be used for spam.

I can count on no fingers the number of times I have encountered spam via hijacked Steam accounts. Or heard of it. Or heard of someone's steam account being hijacked even when everyone I know has one.

Making things up is cool, yo.

Moderator Action: Don't call other users liars
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Dale]

I can count on no fingers the number of times I have encountered spam via hijacked Steam accounts. Or heard of it. Or heard of someone's steam account being hijacked even when everyone I know has one.

Making things up is cool, yo.

Where is your evidence that it doesn't happen?

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. You're only 1 user in 25 million. Accusing people of being liars is not cool.

 

[The_J]

Google search for "steam spam hijacking" gives me nearly 60.000 hits.

Okay, seems not to be a big problem, but it seems, that stolen accounts haven been sold on ebay.

And you really should not think, that any cyber crimes out there are done by some script kiddies. Nearly none is.

 

[Dale]

I can count on no fingers the number of times I have encountered spam via hijacked Steam accounts. Or heard of it. Or heard of someone's steam account being hijacked even when everyone I know has one.

Making things up is cool, yo.

BTW.....

http://www.half-lifecreations.com/forums/index.php?topic=643.0

Chalks you FAIL!

 

[Chalks]

BTW.....

http://www.half-lifecreations.com/forums/index.php?topic=643.0

Chalks you FAIL!

One whole instance of that happening! Holy crap, that's astonishing. I'm sure the network is absolutely plagued by that whole one message.

You know what's even more astonishing? Your inability to understand the difference between me saying that I have never encountered or heard of this before with me saying that it never happens.

So the anti-steam argument is so convoluted now that it's resorting to finding random screenshots of spammers to say "look it am bads!"? Cool. There are spammers on this board, you know, so I guess you'll be quitting CFC any second now...

 

[Dale]

One whole instance of that happening! Holy crap, that's astonishing. I'm sure the network is absolutely plagued by that whole one message.

You know what's even more astonishing? Your inability to understand the difference between me saying that I have never encountered or heard of this before with me saying that it never happens.

So the anti-steam argument is so convoluted now that it's resorting to finding random screenshots of spammers to say "look it am bads!"? Cool. There are spammers on this board, you know, so I guess you'll be quitting CFC any second now...

Let me just point out that it was YOU who accused The_J of being a liar about Steam accounts able to be spammers. It was YOU who by that comment implied that spamming never happens on Steam (due to calling The_J a liar for saying it could possibly happen). It was YOU who just backpedaled when called out about your comments.

Also I should point out that you have assumed incorrectly about my view of Steam. I actually like it.

Oh, and if you took 5 seconds to take your head out of your ass and do some simple grade 2 research, you would find that Steam spamming is very common.

 

[Chalks]

Let me just point out that it was YOU who accused The_J of being a liar about Steam accounts able to be spammers. It was YOU who by that comment implied that spamming never happens on Steam (due to calling The_J a liar for saying it could possibly happen). It was YOU who just backpedaled when called out about your comments.

Also I should point out that you have assumed incorrectly about my view of Steam. I actually like it.

Oh, and if you took 5 seconds to take your head out of your ass and do some simple grade 2 research, you would find that Steam spamming is very common.

That's balls - there is no large scale hijacking of steam accounts for spamming. The fact that someone spammed someone once does not make his comments any less crap-laden than they were before.

Trying to tell people that steam accounts are bad because they get hijacked for spamming is simply moronic. Nobody cares what once in a blue moon google image search lucky find you stumble across, it is not a relevant concern.

 

[Dale]

That's balls - there is no large scale hijacking of steam accounts for spamming. The fact that someone spammed someone once does not make his comments any less crap-laden than they were before.

Trying to tell people that steam accounts are bad because they get hijacked for spamming is simply moronic. Nobody cares what once in a blue moon google image search lucky find you stumble across, it is not a relevant concern.

Did you do the 5 second Google search? Did you find all the Steam spamming, hacking and phishing software? Did you find all the forum posts of users on half-life, bioware and other forums complaining about spammers in Steam?

 

[Chalks]

Did you do the 5 second Google search? Did you find all the Steam spamming, hacking and phishing software? Did you find all the forum posts of users on half-life, bioware and other forums complaining about spammers in Steam?

I gave it a go - however, "spamming" is a term used for chat flooding which is 90% of the results.

What's your point? That your account is going to be hijacked for spamming therefore steam accounts are bad or are you just going for some semantic argument here with me?

 

[The_J]

The essence is just, that every additional account (which i even may not need) is a security risk.
And a risk, which includes money.
And it happens.
And it can happen to you.

 

[Dale]

What's your point?

My point? Simple. You said there was no money to be made in hijacking Steam accounts. The_J said they could be used for spam. You called him a liar. Then when evidence was given to prove that Steam accounts have been used for spam you get all petulant and attack me as a Steam hater (contrary to all evidence given to you about how I feel about Steam).

I've noticed in other threads you attack the poster when being proven wrong. Should I expect a direct attack on me next?

 

[Chalks]

Oh for gods sake - I was saying to Kylearan that there wasn't any money to be made from hijacking steam accounts in the same way there is from WoW accounts or online banking details or other things trojans get written for.

Your "haaaaww but there's at least one guy who perhaps made $5.36 by sending out a handful of spam messages on steam at one point!" is tedious.

There is not a significant quantity of money to be made from hijacking steam accounts, to the extent that the majority of people will never encounter the problem and therefore it probably isn't something you need to worry about and certainly not something worthy of discussion at this stage.

It's also rather tedious in my opinion that I apparently have to fill my posts with qualifiers to avoid irritating nit picking.

 

[Fabien]

I personally like steam; it's a mild form of copy protection for the publisher and has some community features I like. When you've seen what Ubisoft is capable of, it doesn't matter anymore and makes Steam look like a good product anyway . (No you can't fight the fact that all new games will need online authentication. The consumer - producer relationship is not as simple as some people here try to make it.)

I can't understand people who say they really liked the game and looked forward to it but now can't buy it because it uses steam. You're not going to get "antidrm-points" for being adamant when you die without having played civ5 and all its sequels. It's just, people who really like the game, will buy it anyway no matter what.

The only thing I dislike is that there won't be a regular collectors edition fir civ5, so I'll probably have to buy a hard copy as well as the digital steam version.

 

[arstal]

I personally like steam; it's a mild form of copy protection for the publisher and has some community features I like. When you've seen what Ubisoft is capable of, it doesn't matter anymore and makes Steam look like a good product anyway . (No you can't fight the fact that all new games will need online authentication. The consumer - producer relationship is not as simple as some people here try to make it.)

I can't understand people who say they really liked the game and looked forward to it but now can't buy it because it uses steam. You're not going to get "antidrm-points" for being adamant when you die without having played civ5 and all its sequels. It's just, people who really like the game, will buy it anyway no matter what.

The only thing I dislike is that there won't be a regular collectors edition fir civ5, so I'll probably have to buy a hard copy as well as the digital steam version.

Some people can look beyond one game into the future. It's called discounting for the future in economics term. The people who are legitimately boycotting are doing this.
The people who are grumbling yet buying are being short-sighted, or genuinely value the game enough that the reduction in value due to DRM isn't enough to tip the value of the game below $50 or something they would buy instead.

The fact you're willing to buy two copies, one of which will effectively be a brick, says you are in that group.

There's another group that genuinely likes Steam. I consider them weird, but so be it.

Those two groups have rational reasons not to boycott the game- and I understand if they don't. My only issue with the Steam fanboys is they don't understand why other people dislike Steam.

It's not anti-DRM points, it's trying to prevent worse things from being used in the future.

Also, the fact that Ubi DRM exists does not make better then Ubi DRM= good.

Not trying to flame you, but you're missing the entire point of the other side here.

 

[Fabien]

Some people can look beyond one game into the future. It's called discounting for the future in economics term. The people who are legitimately boycotting are doing this.
The people who are grumbling yet buying are being short-sighted, or genuinely value the game enough that the reduction in value due to DRM isn't enough to tip the value of the game below $50 or something they would buy instead.

Sorry, but in my understandig all this talk of boycotting games with DRM has never lead to anything. I was once in the same boat and "we" also thought the publishers would give in. That was before I realised that 99% of the customers who buy games with DRM do not even visit forums - and that we're indeed in no position to demand anything. Publishers will also just stop releasing PCGames without DRm or will not even bother to port console games at all (See Microsoft, Fable II, GoW II). Atleast for me it's crystal clear, that we as PCUsers will give in in the end, I mean just look at the numbers for Assasins Creed 2, they all screamed like hell (And I would have done the same, this system of not being able to play while offline is hideous) but it sold better than expected.

So in the end, people who don't buy games because of DRM aren't going to remain Players in the long run.

The fact you're willing to buy two copies, one of which will effectively be a brick, says you are in that group.

But atleast that's only my decision. If a hard copy comes out with all the extras, I'll only buy one. After all the fun I've had with Civ4 I don't feel bad for that kind of money at all.

There's another group that genuinely likes Steam. I consider them weird, but so be it.

Those two groups have rational reasons not to boycott the game- and I understand if they don't. My only issue with the Steam fanboys is they don't understand why other people dislike Steam.

It's not anti-DRM points, it's trying to prevent worse things from being used in the future.

Also, the fact that Ubi DRM exists does not make better then Ubi DRM= good.

Not trying to flame you, but you're missing the entire point of the other side here.

As I've said, I think this "battle" or what I want to name has already been decided anyway, so I stick to playing videogames .

 

[Vertoro]

I don't mind having my DVD in the drive or being logged in to Steam as long as I can play the game. Here is the catch I posted earlier about not being able to play Dawn of War because I could not remember my Steam account. Over the weekend I bought another copy of Dawn of War. I installed it and then Steam informed me the game must update. The came updated for more than 18 hours!!!

After that I though I would be able to play but then Steam seemed not to be available. About 30 Minutes later I could log in just to get a crash report with a nice yellow banner. Fact of the matter is I now own 2 copies of a game I can't play. I will buy Civ 5 if I get the assurance that it will work in South Africa with low and limited bandwidth.

In my opinion having DVD in the drive is a small price to pay.

 

[Dale]

Oh for gods sake - I was saying to Kylearan that there wasn't any money to be made from hijacking steam accounts in the same way there is from WoW accounts or online banking details or other things trojans get written for.

Your "haaaaww but there's at least one guy who perhaps made $5.36 by sending out a handful of spam messages on steam at one point!" is tedious.

There is not a significant quantity of money to be made from hijacking steam accounts, to the extent that the majority of people will never encounter the problem and therefore it probably isn't something you need to worry about and certainly not something worthy of discussion at this stage.

It's also rather tedious in my opinion that I apparently have to fill my posts with qualifiers to avoid irritating nit picking.

Hey it's a Civ fan site, full of hard cores who crunch numbers and focus on specifics. If you can't realise that and be specific yourself then not my problem. And if you're not specific and use facts, instead of blanket stereotypical lies like you've used, then you have to be expected to be called out on it. You need to cite proof for any broad statement you make, or accept that someone will show you to be the liar you are.

Moderator Action: Flaming - warned
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Avs]

On Hijacked Steam Accounts

You don't need evidence for this, its happened, and its happened to anyone who's lost a Steam account through phishing. The picture posted is a phishing attempt.

On Hijacked Steam Accounts regarding Steam itself

Any service that uses a login (Email, Banks) can be "hi-jacked" the same way. People steam credit card information through the same methods. You should be smart about how you go about clicking on links on the internet on ANY website, let alone instant messages. I don't see a real point in discussing how "safe" Steam is, as its just about as safe as what each person does on the internet. Everyday there are attacks like this doing a lot more damage than stealing your game accounts.

Steam is not a security hole. Its the user.

 

[Chalks]

Steam is not a security hole. Its the user.

We have a winner.

 

[Avs]

Hi,

That depends on how easy it is to do something malicious with your Steam account, compared to how hard it might be to hijack your internet banking transaction. For example, there is malware stealing World of Warcraft accounts and not your internet banking data. If Steam is widespread enough, it will get targetted, too.


First, not every Steam user is a computer geek who knows how to minimize the risk of getting infected. Some people just want to play games, without being forced to take security courses first. And second, even if it were so: What do you do against a PDF 0day attack, or an attack targetted against a bug in the Steam service, or...? Hint: No, anti-virus software is not the correct answer. You cannot protect yourself completely.

-Kylearan

You cannot stop a 0day attack, or any type of social engineering phishing attack computer geek or not. Like you said yourself, if its widespread enough, it gets targeted. Facebook, Twitter, Yahoo Instant Messenger, MSN, AIM, are all services that share this problem. In fact, this problem is shared by the internet.

As long as you remember your password, and do nothing but play games (ignore friend requests and messages) there is no worse or better off. Lets get this straight:

Steam does not mean you'll get viruses, spyware, malware, or increases the chance of you getting these issues. Being connected to the internet does. They already stated you can play the game offline.