[Civ 5] Rise of Mankind design discussion

@zappara

Awesome! Even better than I was imagining. I was trying to think of a clever way to do the dark age / golden age techs but never figured it out.

As for the enabled mods, what are you plans for it? Is it going to be open to any mod or only "Civ5 RoM add-on" mods? I can see already that standard game mods would most likely not combine well with RoM.

As for careful planning I think we should get some diagram trees written up to see what we want to keep, delete, add or change. Especially when we start thinking of the new golden age techs or moving some ancient techs to the Prehistoric Era or trans-human era techs to the Galactic Era.
 
I think we should keep RoM open for other mods as that's what just happened with Civ 4: RoM ;) But we might have to block some other total conversions as that most likely will lead to game crashes.

Today I took a first look at the lua files and made a small mod component which we can use in RoM: Bigger Worlds. It adds RoM's Giant and Gigantic map sizes to the game and is currently available in game's Mods section. Experimental mod so there might be bugs...
 
Umm, there's already a mod that adds several pages to techs... just like using web browser, you'll have tabs for different pages. ;) This mod would actually allow to make all kinds of alternative tech routes... or civ specific tech trees ...or separate different type of tech categories to their own pages or... or force player to dark age era techs if has some unfortunate ends or give player access to golden era techs... endless possibilities with these kinds of things :)

Ah more I think about it, it's getting much more awesome ^_^
 
So I was using VUE to make a tree but its so huge uploading it makes it auto-shrink so I am just going to go over possible techs here. Note this is just a rough draft showing Civ 5 techs, Civ 4 RoM techs, A New Dawn Tech, HAND tech, and some other idea techs that have been both discussed before and ones I just thought up.

Prehistoric Era
Spoiler :

Basketry (New)
Bone Working (New)
Canine Domestication (New)
Cave Dwelling (New)
Ceremonial Burial (RoM)
Clothing (New)
Cooking (New)
Exploration (New)
Fire Making (New)
Fishing (RoM)
Flint Knapping (New)
Gathering (New)
Hunting (RoM)
Language (New)
Marriage (New)
Mobile Dwellings (New)
Mysticism (RoM)
Naturopathy (RoM)
Oral Tradation (New)
Petroglyphs (New)
Pigments (New)
Pottery (Civ5, RoM)
Prehistoric Music (New)
Prehistoric Dance (New)
Ritualism (RoM)
Scavenging (New)
Sedentary Lifestyle (New)
Shamanism (New)
Shelter Building (New)
Singing (New)
Spear Fishing (New)
Spear Making (New)
Stone Tools (RoM)
Tanning (New)
Tracking (New)
Trapping (Civ5)
Weaving (RoM)
Woodworking (HAND)


Ancient Era
Spoiler :
Acupuncture (New)
Agriculture (Civ5, RoM)
Ancient Music (New)
Ancient Surgery (New)
Animal Husbandry (Civ5, RoM)
Apiculture (New)
Archery (Civ5, RoM)
Bronze Working (Civ5, RoM)
Caste System (RoM)
Chariotry (RoM)
Copper Working (New)
Divination (New)
Dualism (RoM)
Elephant Riding (RoM)
Fermentation (RoM)
Folk Dance (New)
Horseback Riding (Civ5, RoM)
Masonry (Civ5, RoM)
Massage (New)
Megalith Engineering (New)
Metal Casting (Civ5, RoM)
Military Training (RoM)
Mining (Civ5, RoM)
Monotheism (RoM)
Naval Warfare (RoM)
Natya (New)
Polytheism (RoM)
Priesthood (RoM)
Rock Sawing (New)
Sacrifice Cult (RoM)
Sailing (Civ5, RoM)
Sculpture (RoM)
Seafaring (RoM)
Slavery (RoM)
Stargazing (AtoM)
Sundial (New)
Terracotta (New)
The Wheel (Civ5, RoM)
Trade (RoM)
Wax-Casting (New)
Writing (Civ5, RoM)


Classical Era
Spoiler :

Aesthetics (RoM)
Alphabet (RoM)
Ancient Cement (New)
Ancient Electricity (New)
Ancient Steamworks (New)
Aristocracy (RoM)
Astrology (AtoM)
Athletics (RoM)
Calendar (Civ5, RoM)
Canal Systems (RoM)
Carpentry (HAND)
Charcoal (New)
City Planning (RoM)
City Plumbing (New)
Code of Laws (RoM)
Combat Sports (AND)
Construction (Civ5, RoM)
Currency (Civ5, RoM)
Democracy (RoM)
Drama (RoM)
Floor Heating (New)
Glass Blowing (RoM)
Horse Breeding (RoM)
Insurance (AND)
Iron Working (Civ5, RoM)
Irrigation (New)
Kabuki (New)
Lead Working (New)
Literature (RoM)
Machinery (Civ5, RoM)
Marble Working (New)
Mathematics (Civ5, RoM)
Meditation (RoM)
Mirrors (New)
Monarchy (RoM)
Mosaic Working (New)
Mounted Archery (RoM)
Music / Early Music (RoM, New)
Philosophy (Civ5, RoM)
Plough (New)
Poetry (New)
Quarrying (New)
Salt Processing (New)
Sanitation (RoM)
Siege Warfare (RoM)
Ship Building (RoM)
Smithing (RoM)
Stirrups (RoM)
The Anchor (New)
The Razor (New)
Vassalage (RoM)
Weather Lore (AND)
Wootz Steel (New)


Medieval Era
Spoiler :

Agricultural Tools (RoM)
Algebra (RoM)
Anatomy (RoM)
Armor Crafting (RoM)
Armored Calvary (RoM)
Architecture (RoM)
Banking (Civ5, RoM)
Cartography (RoM)
Chivalry (Civ5, RoM)
Civil Service (Civ5, RoM)
Clockworks (RoM)
Compass (Civ5, RoM)
Court Dancing (New)
Constitution (RoM)
Crop Rotation (RoM)
Education (Civ5, RoM)
Engineering (Civ5, RoM)
Feudalism (RoM)
Fire Brigades (HAND)
Fundamentalism (RoM)
Guilds (RoM)
Heraldry (RoM)
Invention (RoM)
Martial Arts (AND)
Medieval Music (New)
Mountaineering (AND)
Optics (Civ5, RoM)
Papacy (RoM)
Paper (RoM)
Perspective (RoM)
Surveying (New)
Theology (Civ5, RoM)
Tournaments (AND)
Usury (RoM)


Renaissance Era
Spoiler :

Acoustics (Civ5)
Archaeology (Civ5)
Astronomy (Civ5, RoM)
Battlefield Medicine (RoM)
Biology (Civ5, RoM)
Baroque Music (New)
Calvary Tactics (RoM)
Chemistry (Civ5, RoM)
Classical Music (New)
Corporation (RoM)
Cotton Gin (New)
Divine Right (RoM)
Dueling (AND)
Dynamite / Explosives (Civ5, RoM)
Economics (Civ5, RoM)
Fertilizer (Civ5)
Flintlock (RoM)
Free Artistry (RoM)
Gas Lighting (New)
Gearpunk Engineering (New)
Geology (New)
Grand War (RoM)
Gunpowder (Civ5, RoM)
Humanism (RoM)
Jurisprudence (RoM)
Leadership (RoM)
Liberalism (RoM)
Matchlock (RoM)
Military Tradition (RoM)
Merchantalism (RoM)
Metallurgy (Civ5, RoM)
Nationalism (RoM)
Naval Cannons (RoM)
Naval Tactics (RoM)
Navigation (Civ5, RoM)
Oil Painting (RoM)
Paleontology (New)
Photography (RoM)
Physics (Civ5, RoM)
Political Philosophy (RoM)
Printing Press (Civ5, RoM)
Realism (RoM)
Renaissance Music (New)
Replaceable Parts (Civ5, RoM)
Representative Democracy (RoM)
Rifling (Civ5, RoM)
Romanticism (AND)
Romantic Music (New)
Scientific Theory / Scientific Method (Civ5, RoM)
Social Contract (RoM)
Spectroscopy (AToM)
Stock Brokering (AND)
Team Sports (AND)
Weather Forecasting (AND)


Industrial Era
Spoiler :

Agricultural Engineering (RoM)
Amphibious Warfare (RoM)
Animation (New)
Armored Vehicles (RoM)
Artillery (RoM)
Assembly Line (RoM)
Automatic Weapons (RoM)
Aviation (RoM)
Ballet (New)
Civil Engineering (RoM)
Combustion (Civ5, RoM)
Communism (RoM)
Compulsory Education (RoM)
Cosmology (AToM)
Electricity (Civ5, RoM)
Electronics (Civ5, RoM)
Fascism (RoM)
Firefighting (HAND)
Flight (Civ5, RoM)
Guerrilla Warfare (RoM)
Hydroelectric Power (New)
Industrialism (RoM)
Labor Union (RoM)
Lawn Sports (AND)
Logistics (RoM)
Machine Tools (RoM)
Marxism (RoM)
Mass Transit (RoM)
Mechanized Warfare (RoM)
Medicine (RoM)
Meteorology (AND)
Military Science (Civ5, RoM)
Modern Dance (New)
Modern Music (New)
Modern Physics (RoM)
Modern Sanitation (RoM)
Motion Pictures (RoM)
Motorized Transportation (RoM)
Nuclear Fission (Civ5, RoM)
Organic Chemistry (RoM)
Penicillin (Civ5)
Plastics (Civ5, RoM)
Plate Tectonics (New)
Psychology (RoM)
Quantum Physics (RoM)
Radio (Civ5, RoM)
Radio Astronomy (AToM)
Railroad (Civ5, RoM)
Refrigeration (Civ5, RoM)
Refining (RoM)
Rocketry (Civ5, RoM)
Screw Propeller (RoM)
Semi-Automatic Weapons (RoM)
Sonar (RoM)
Steam Power (Civ5, RoM)
Steampunk Engineering (New)
Steel (Civ5, RoM)
Submarine Warfare (RoM)
Telegraph (Civ5, RoM)
Telephone (New)
Thermodynamics (RoM)
Theory of Relativity (RoM)
Water Sports (AND)


Modern Era
Spoiler :

3D Modeling (RoM)
Applied Economics (RoM)
Advanced Ballistics (Civ5)
Advanced Rocketry (RoM)
Aerodynamics (RoM)
Astrogeology (AToM)
Atomic Theory (Civ5)
Biological Warfare (RoM)
CCD Photography (AToM)
Climate Models (AND)
Communication Networks (RoM)
Composites (RoM)
Computer Networks (RoM)
Computers (Civ5, RoM)
Dieselpunk Engineering (New)
Ecology (Civ5, RoM)
Extreme Sports (AND)
Fiber Optics (RoM)
Fire Suppression (HAND)
Fuel Cells (RoM)
Gene Manipulation (RoM)
Genetics (RoM)
Geothermal Power (New)
Globalization (Civ5, RoM)
Guided Weapons (RoM)
Ion Propulsion (AToM)
Jet Propulsion (RoM)
Knowledge Management (RoM)
Lasers (Civ5, RoM)
Legalized Gambling (RoM)
Lunar Exploration (AToM)
Magnetic Levitation (RoM)
Manufacturing (RoM)
Mass Media (Civ5, RoM)
Microprocessor (RoM)
Modern Cosmology (AToM)
Modern Health Care (RoM)
Modern Seismology (RoM)
Modern Sports (AND)
Modern Warfare (RoM)
Motor Sports (AND)
Naval Aviation (RoM)
Neural Networks (RoM)
Nuclear Power (RoM)
Radar (Civ5, RoM)
Nanotechnology (Civ5, RoM)
Recycling (RoM)
Robotics (Civ5, RoM)
Robotic Sky Surveys (AToM)
Satellites (Civ5, RoM)
Semiconductors (RoM)
Solar Power (New)
Space Flight (RoM)
Space Stations (RoM)
Space Tourism (RoM)
Stealth (Civ5, RoM)
Superconductors (RoM)
Supersonic Flight (RoM)
Superstring Theory (RoM)
Tourism (RoM)
Unmanned Air Vehicles (RoM)
Vertical Flight (RoM)
Virtual Reality (RoM)


Trans-Human Era
Spoiler :

Advanced Computers (RoM)
Advanced Shielding (RoM)
Advanced Warmachines (RoM)
Androids (RoM)
Anti-Aging Medicine (RoM)
Aquaculture (RoM)
Artificial Evolution (RoM)
Artificial Intelligence (RoM)
Artificial Life (RoM)
Automatic Traffic (RoM)
Biofuels (RoM)
Biomimetrics (RoM)
Bionics (RoM)
Brain Machine Interface (RoM)
Cloning (RoM)
Cognitive Robotics (RoM)
Conglomerates (RoM)
Controlled Plasma (RoM)
Cryogenics (RoM)
Cybernetics (RoM)
Cyberpunk Engineering (New)
DNA Computing (RoM)
Ecological Engineering (RoM)
Environmental Economics (RoM)
Homo Superior (RoM)
Hydroponics (RoM)
Hypersonic Flight (RoM)
Invisibility (RoM)
Lunar Colonization (AToM) [Replaces Space Colonies]
Lunar Tourism (AToM)
Megastructure Engineering (RoM)
Mesh Networks (RoM)
Metamaterials (RoM)
Micromechanics (RoM)
Military Robotics (RoM)
Mind Uploading (RoM)
Nanobotics (RoM)
Nanoelectronics (RoM)
Nanomining (RoM)
Nuclear Fusion (Civ5, RoM)
Orbital Flight (RoM)
Orbital Manufacturing (AToM)
Organic Cities (RoM)
Particle Physics (Civ5)
Personal Robotics (RoM)
Planetary Economics (RoM)
Plastic Electronics (RoM)
Powered Exoskeleton (RoM)
Quantum Computing (RoM)
Quantum Teleportation (RoM)
Railgun (RoM)
Rapid Prototyping (RoM)
Regenerative Medicine (RoM)
Replacement Organs (RoM)
Sentient Earth (RoM)
Shielding (RoM)
Skyroads (RoM)
Smart Drugs (RoM)
Smart Dust (RoM)
Superstrong Alloys (RoM)
Terra Computer (RoM)
Thought Scanning (RoM)
Vertical Farming (RoM)
Warmachines (RoM)
Wearable Computers (RoM)
Weather Control (RoM)
Wireless Electricity (RoM)


Galactic Era
Spoiler :

ACNP Propulsion (AToM)
Advanced Seedships (AToM)
Analyze Strings (AToM) [Replaces Future Tech]
Antimatter Rockety (AToM)
Artificial Planets (AToM)
Artificial Stars (AToM)
Asteroid Mining (AToM)
Astroanthropology (AToM)
Astrobiology (AToM)
Astroecology (AToM)
Atomization Field (AToM)
Attometer Engineering (AToM)
Colony Arcology (AToM)
Deep Space Probes (AToM)
Dual-Flux Quantum Temporal Rift (AToM)
Endogenous Euclidean Propulsion (AToM)
Extraterrestrial Agriculture (AToM)
Euclidean 5-Space Geometry (AToM)
Folding Space (AToM)
Galactic Core Exploration (AToM)
Galactic Federation (AToM)
Intrastellar Communications (AToM)
Intrastellar Trade (AToM)
Interplanetary RR Defenses (AToM)
Interstellar Colonization (AToM)
Interstellar Colonization (AToM)
Interstellar Trade (AToM)
Launch Arcology (AToM)
Lunar Manufacturing (AToM)
Mass Driver Launcher (AToM)
Magnetic Sails (AToM)
Nuclear Pulse Propulsion (AToM)
Planetary Colonization (AToM)
Planetary Exploration (AToM)
Planetary Manufacturing (AToM)
Planetary Mining (AToM)
Planetary Terraforming (AToM)
Planetary Tourism (AToM)
Planet Engineering (AToM)
Singularity Stabilization (AToM)
Solar Propulsion (AToM)
Space Creasing (AToM)
Species Uplifting (AToM)
Teleportation (RoM)
Time Travel (AToM)
Trans-Tangible Neutrino Accelerators (AToM)
Transverse Euclidean Geometry (AToM)
VASIMR Propulsion (AToM)
Weaponized Antimatter (AToM)
Weaponized Disintegration (AToM)
Wormhole Communications (AToM)
Wormhole Traversal (AToM)
 
@Hydro

Wow, that's gonna be a truly epic game! :crazyeye:
I would have to buy a new pc to run that one...

Just one request, (More towards Zappara)
As someone who "hates the future" i would relay like it if the trans human and galactic would be easily modeled out. I having problems with the death robot as it is... and i would really like the game to "end" at the present.
 
Hey Zappara, just wanted to let you know that I can do all the 2D Stuff you need (except model textures).

I work as an Illustrator/Conceptartist and it would be great fun to work on your project in my spare time!


Just gimme a PM if you like to.

Ps.: Thx for RoM!

PPS.: Civ IV RoM is the main reason why people complain about Civ V right now.
 
@Hydro

Wow, that's gonna be a truly epic game! :crazyeye:
I would have to buy a new pc to run that one...

Just one request, (More towards Zappara)
As someone who "hates the future" i would relay like it if the trans human and galactic would be easily modeled out. I having problems with the death robot as it is... and i would really like the game to "end" at the present.

Thanks. :D

And I have a possible solution for all those people who don't want an era. It was done in Empire Earth upon start up and I bet it could be done for this game. It has "Era Start" and "Era Finish" loading controls. Thus if you wanted to play "vanilla" you would set start at "Ancient" and end at "Modern. Alternatively" you could have any combo in between including playing in only one era such as set start "Industrial" and end at "Industrial". This would set the game to only play during that one era.
 
As I examined Mod Browser, I came to realize this may be simplified a lot, maybe. Here's how:
How about either Zappara or Afforess start up a thread on new RoM of Civ5, then list all mods already uploaded that will be used by future final RoM.

I see two so far, Bigger Worlds and Active City Defense. List them as required mods to be downloaded. That way the final mod doesn't have to reinvent mods. You just follow what is required and download them all.

Then for Hydro's ideas of Prehistoric and Galactic eras, he may go ahead and create these eras as a mod, then either Zappara or Afforess can put these as optional mods to download to expand their core game.

So to summarize this: just list all required mods as they come up (either by you two or other modders) and then create your final core game. A lot easier to debug, maybe.
 
Just one request, (More towards Zappara)
As someone who "hates the future" i would relay like it if the trans human and galactic would be easily modeled out. I having problems with the death robot as it is... and i would really like the game to "end" at the present.
There's already mods out that let make the game stop at the specific eras, we can do the same ie. add optional mod components to end the game at the chosen era (or it could be even game option). Personally I'd play the game without prehistoric or galactic eras (I don't think those belong to classic civilization game) but those can be included if they are optional content (the more choices player has when making up his own civ game, the better).

Hey Zappara, just wanted to let you know that I can do all the 2D Stuff you need (except model textures).

I work as an Illustrator/Conceptartist and it would be great fun to work on your project in my spare time!

Just gimme a PM if you like to.

Ps.: Thx for RoM!

PPS.: Civ IV RoM is the main reason why people complain about Civ V right now.
First we'll need new tech icons for all RoM techs so this would be a good task. I haven't looked into graphics yet but I think dds format is used again but don't know yet what is the size of tech icons. If I recall correctly, you can get the dds conversion tools from Nvidias site for Photoshop (somewhere there, better to google).

As I examined Mod Browser, I came to realize this may be simplified a lot, maybe. Here's how:
How about either Zappara or Afforess start up a thread on new RoM of Civ5, then list all mods already uploaded that will be used by future final RoM.

I see two so far, Bigger Worlds and Active City Defense. List them as required mods to be downloaded. That way the final mod doesn't have to reinvent mods. You just follow what is required and download them all.

Then for Hydro's ideas of Prehistoric and Galactic eras, he may go ahead and create these eras as a mod, then either Zappara or Afforess can put these as optional mods to download to expand their core game.

So to summarize this: just list all required mods as they come up (either by you two or other modders) and then create your final core game. A lot easier to debug, maybe.
I think it's still bit too early to decide what mods will be required for RoM and no, I haven't actively searched through the mods section what has been made so far. I've barely started playing the game and will continue playing it for the coming months in order to learn all the aspects of the game (huge maps, marathon games...takes a while to complete ;)).

I can make small mods about RoM's features (like I did with Bigger Worlds) and someone already made Snail game speed. When we got the full tech tree made and buildings and other stuff added to it, we need to then decide what mods to combine into RoM (as we need to tweak their values so that they are suitable for RoM settings).

Using mods in Civ 5 is totally different than in Civ 4... player can download and enable dozens of different mods in order to make his own ultimate civilization game and for this reason it might be wise to release different parts of the main modpack as smaller mods (and gradually work towards the complete RoM package). I doubt there will be many complete total conversions for Civ 5 because there isn't need for those anymore since you can "combine" the best mods by downloading/enabling them through mod browser... and we need to adapt into this new system (I'm pretty familiar with this concept from Morrowind/Oblivion modding).
 
How is RoM going to handle polices? (Sorry if it was in here and I missed it) I remember Civ 4 RoM had a lot more and more complex options then reg Civ 4 did, and the policies system has some cool aspects but is a bit simplistic imo. All benafits, no negatvies, and the benifits for many are quite weak (50% of the way to pop 2 for a new city in liberty is worthless when my cities already get to 2 in 5 or 6 turns with martime allies)

I modded some of the policies myself, tried to make the western government types more competitive with Order/Autocracy. I found Order/Autocracy/Commerce to be by far the best combo if you want to wage any war at all and have more then a handful of cities. Personally I gave Liberty a boost by making Republic 2 gold/2 prod instead of just 1 prod, I was gonna make it 3/3 but thats too powerful so early in the game. This represents how much more economicly powerful republics/democracies always are. I made some other teaks in policies but wont bore you guys.

Also just want to agree pre historic/far future isn't really needed. I would be fine with maybe 1 advancement beyond the current top tier of tech, say: railgun tanks, Laser AA, Stealth/laser using aircraft and Railgun destroyers, and power armor/robot assisted infantry. This is stuff we are currently pioneering and you can see videos on youtube of the prototypes of these, so I dont think its too far flung. When it gets beyond that though, it gets too sci fi for my tastes.
 
So I was using VUE to make a tree but its so huge uploading it makes it auto-shrink so I am just going to go over possible techs here. Note this is just a rough draft showing Civ 5 techs, Civ 4 RoM techs, A New Dawn Tech, HAND tech, and some other idea techs that have been both discussed before and ones I just thought up.

Prehistoric Era
Spoiler :

Basketry (New)
Bone Working (New)
Canine Domestication (New)
Cave Dwelling (New)
Ceremonial Burial (RoM)
Clothing (New)
Cooking (New)
Exploration (New)
Fire Making (New)
Fishing (RoM)
Flint Knapping (New)
Gathering (New)
Hunting (RoM)
Language (New)
Marriage (New)
Mobile Dwellings (New)
Mysticism (RoM)
Naturopathy (RoM)
Oral Tradation (New)
Petroglyphs (New)
Pigments (New)
Pottery (Civ5, RoM)
Prehistoric Music (New)
Prehistoric Dance (New)
Ritualism (RoM)
Scavenging (New)
Sedentary Lifestyle (New)
Shamanism (New)
Shelter Building (New)
Singing (New)
Spear Fishing (New)
Spear Making (New)
Stone Tools (RoM)
Tanning (New)
Tracking (New)
Trapping (Civ5)
Weaving (RoM)
Woodworking (HAND)

Just looking at expanding the Prehistoric era:-

Basketry (New)
Requires trapping, hunting and gathering
required for weaving, pottery and fishing (nets).

the dillybag - the Australian name for the bag used to carry the stuff hunted and gathered back to camp. "Cave" paintings of hunters and gathers using such a bag exist all over the world.

shows all fiber resources - hemp, cotton, wool etc.

Bone Working (New)
Can't see the point ;) to this one. Unless you are suggesting antler and bone tools here in which case a +% to worker rate would be right.

Canine Domestication (New)
Personally I would just go for domestication.
Requires hunting and gathering
required for animal husbandry

Allows new type of warrior


Cave Dwelling (New)
Can't see the point in this one


Ceremonial Burial (RoM)
Requires Mysticism

rest as per RoM


Clothing (New)
Not sure what you mean by this one. I would suggest Personal Adornment see below.


Cooking (New)
Require Fire, leads to cultural identity(?)

This is a health tech which does not fit with Civ 5 so far.


Exploration (New)



Fire Making (New)
Leads to cooking and lighting techs

This is a health tech which does not fit with Civ 5 so far.


Fishing (RoM)
Split into early fishing and fishing. Just saw spear fishing which I think is equivalent to my early fishing.

Early Fishing just requires hunting and shows fish type resources on the coast.

Fishing requires Early Fishing, Basketry and Sailing(?) shows the rest of the fishing resources and allows them to be worked.

OR
Fishing requires Early Fishing, Basketry shows the rest of the fishing resources and allows coastal resources to be worked.

Sailing req Fishing and allows all sea food resources to be worked.


Flint Knapping (New)
Allows new type of warrior, +% to worker rate


Gathering (New)
Shows all food plant resources


Hunting (RoM)
Allows new type of warrior
Shows all food animal resources.


Language (New)
? but required for Oral Tradition


Marriage (New)
? Don't understand this one for this time frame.

Mysticism (RoM)
requires Prehistoric Music and/or Prehistoric Dance
OR
required for Prehistoric Music and/or Prehistoric Dance


Naturopathy (RoM)
Requires gathering (or agriculture) and basketry

Personal Adornamnt (replaces clothing above)
requires pigments


Petroglyphs (New)
requires representational art - what moderns called "cave painting" until receintly.


Pigments (New)
shows dye and related resources


Pottery (Civ5, RoM)
requires basketry


Scavenging (New)
Same as gathering
Singing (New)
Not at this point since it is part of dance/music. IE specilisation that comes later and requires Oral Tradition at least.


Spear Fishing (New)
See Early fishing.

I am now feeling guilty about spending time on this when I should be doing other stuff so will stop for now. Maybe we need separate discussion threads for this.
 
Just looking at expanding the Prehistoric era: Maybe we need separate discussion threads for this.

I agree with this, have one for each era. Even though "we" already have alot of the techs/units/buildings already done, ideas are great.

Cause with the new Steam stuff, you could just play one era at a time if you wanted to.
 
@Cruor

As I have said before things should be customizable. However the mod should not exclude content either. If some wants to have the prehistoric mod or the galactic mod they should be able to.

As for the technology, much of what has been posted is rooted in plausible science and progresses at a surprisingly realistic rate. See more about it in the AToM thread because Civ Fuehrer did a great job planning it out.

@Dancing Hoskuld

Basketry
Why would it require Trapping? I think all you would need for basket weaving would be gathering.

Bone Working
This would be a requirement for flint knapping sicne its a more advanced stone tool technique. Bone working could also be used for carved items such as idols, beads, harpoons (for spear fishing) etc.

Canine Domestication
This was made since dogs were domesticated long before all the other animals. Here is a break down found on wikipedia ...

Dog = 15000 BCE
Sheep = between 9-11000 BCE
Pig = 9000 BCE
Goat = 8000 BCE
Cow = 8000 BCE
Cat = 7500 BCE
Chicken = 6000 BCE
Guinea Pig = 5000 BCE
Donkey = 5000 BCE
Duck = 4000 BCE
Water Buffalo = 4000 BCE
Horse = 000 BCE
Dromedary Camel = 4000 BCE
Llama = 3500 BCE
Silk Worm = 3000 BCE
Reindeer = 3000 BCE
Pigeon = 3000 BCE
Goose = 3000 BCE
Bactrian Camel = 2500 BCE
Yak = 2500 BCE
Alpaca = 1500 BCE
Turkey = 500 BCE
Rabbit = 1600 BCE

So really there should be many more techs for domesticating which breed. But in comparison dogs have been around for 5000 years before any other animal was domesticated. That's longer than most eras in the game.

Cave Dwelling
This could lead to petroglyphs, shelter building, etc. I mean what would cavemen be without caves?

Ceremonial Burial
Yep its just better set in the Prehistoric Era than the Ancient.

Clothing
Well people did not start out with clothes. This would probably require gathering, hunting or tanning. Something like that to utilize natural fibers or animal skins. More advanced clothing techs could be put in in later eras. Such as "Fashion" tech or "Space Suit" tech.

Cooking
Yeah that sounds right. Also remember I want to add other elements to the game such as health, water, crime, flammability, garbage, etc. So health would be a factor in Civ 5.

Exploration
This would probably be required for scout units.

Fire Making
Yep and lead to cooking tech.

Fishing
Welli think in gernal the fishing should probbly be split up into types of fishing such as Spear Fishing (Fishing + Spear Making), Neat Fishing (Fishing + Weaving), Fishing Traps (Fishing + Trapping) etc. If anything general fishing should be more like Gathering but for the water. We could possibly have more advanced fishing in later techs like Commercial Fishing (Trawlers) or Fish Farms (Aquaculture).

Flint Knapping
Is one step above Stone Tools and would be the tech that allows for say the Jaguar unit of the Aztec where they have obsidian tech swords. I never liked how they were on the same tech path as metal weapon units.

Gathering
Yeah this would probably be a base tech or very early tech.

Hunting
I was actually thinking scavenging could reveal the animals and hunting allows for the warrior.

Language
Yeah it would be Pre-Oral tradition. it would be key to possibly other teach too. Perhaps new tech called "Cooperation" since before language it was much harder to work together. And then working techs could all require "Cooperation".

Marriage
I was not sure on this one if it should be in prehistoric or ancient or just very late prehistoric.

Mysticism
Yeah something like that would work.

Naturopathy
Personally i think there was medicine and herbal usage long before agriculture. In fact today there are hunter/gatherer tribes that use naruropathy but not agriculture. Thus i think it should be a pre-agro tech.

Personal Adornamnt
Whatever sounds good as long as we get in some clothing based techs besides armor upgrades.

Petroglyphs
Wait where is representational art?

Pigments
Yeah sounds good also should it lead to or be after petroglyphs. Also it should probably be required for Personal Adornamnt.

Pottery
Should require fire or gathering too since you have to gather clay and cook the pottery.

Scavenging
Like I said before on how this would reveal animals (or other scavenged resources).

Singing
yeah I am unsure where this should fit. It it should be a requirement for Tribal Music. But definatly would require Language.

Spear Fishing
(See Fishing)

I am now feeling guilty about spending time on this when I should be doing other stuff so will stop for now. Maybe we need separate discussion threads for this.

I am glad you went over this since it has to be worked out and discussed before we start.
 
Ok on to another tangent idea I had ... Worker Upgrades! Basiclly it would work where the more improvements a worker makes the more XP they gain. Here are some ideas for promotions.

Worker Promotions

- Builder I (Builds Roads, Forts and Trading Posts 5% Faster)
- Builder II (Builds Roads, Forts and Trading Posts 10% Faster)
- Builder III (Builds Roads, Forts and Trading Posts 20% Faster)

- Farmer I (Builds Farms, Plantations and Pastures 5% Faster)
- Farmer II (Builds Farms, Plantations and Pastures 10% Faster)
- Farmer III (Builds Farms, Plantations and Pastures 20% Faster)

- Lumberjack I (Builds Camps, Lumber Mills and Chops Forest 5% Faster)
- Lumberjack II (Builds Camps, Lumber Mills and Chops Forest 10% Faster)
- Lumberjack III (Builds Camps, Lumber Mills and Chops Forest 20% Faster)

- Miner I (Builds Mines, Quarries and Oil Wells 5% Faster)
- Miner II (Builds Mines, Quarries and Oil Wells 10% Faster)
- Miner III (Builds Mines, Quarries and Oil Wells 20% Faster)

In addition they could possibly get existing promotions such as Scouting (I, II,and III).
 
By the way, there's a hardcoded limit of 200 promotions - it was said somewhere in Civ 5 wiki pages. Haven't checked how many promotions the game already has but we might need to remove some promotions if we want to add new ones.
 
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