Civ 5 - Why the protest?

[Eddogegr3]

My goodness people, this is only a game. And it's the next one in the greatest franchise in video games... bar none.

Steam, or no Steam. Racist developers, or not. Don't care. Not ONE bit.

As long as I am entertained by the gameplay, I don't care how I get there and what hurdles I have to overcome (or install).

The only thing that would ever stop me from playing Civ is the price. If the next version cost about $499.99 -- I'm out. But at $50 or whatever it will be, I have no problem, I am getting a copy. Even if I don't like it as much as 4, it will still be worth the money. It is CIV.

And even if I am wrong, ITS ONLY A GAME PEOPLE, MOVE ON.

 

[myturn]

No idea, really...

 

[Drakarska]

My goodness people, this is only a game. And it's the next one in the greatest franchise in video games... bar none.

Steam, or no Steam. Racist developers, or not. Don't care. Not ONE bit.

As long as I am entertained by the gameplay, I don't care how I get there and what hurdles I have to overcome (or install).

The only thing that would ever stop me from playing Civ is the price. If the next version cost about $499.99 -- I'm out. But at $50 or whatever it will be, I have no problem, I am getting a copy. Even if I don't like it as much as 4, it will still be worth the money. It is CIV.

And even if I am wrong, ITS ONLY A GAME PEOPLE, MOVE ON.

You are a true product of your generation sir, and I salute you for your fine upstanding example.

 

[Eddogegr3]

You are a true product of your generation sir, and I salute you for your fine upstanding example.

No, I am from the Civ generation. I have been playing since Civ 1 and nothing will stop me from enjoying Civ 5.

And really, regarding the racist crap, do a few bad apples really ruin the whole dessert? No! There is no evidence of anything. If Hitler ran Fireaxis or 2K, well, you gotta point. That is clearly not the case.

 

[aziantuntija]

One of the best, if not the best post i have EVER seen in here!

I agree 110% with you Eddogegr3!

EDIT: I have also played since Civ1

 

[PieceOfMind]

People can be passionate about all sorts of things. Do you go up to a passionate sports fan after his/her team just lost an important game and tell him/her "hey, it's just a game. Move on."?

Some people will take things more seriously than you while some will take it less seriously than you. I don't see what your problem is with people expressing their concerns for a game they love. For the most part, this community is united by its passion or love of the civilization games. Pretty much anything else is up for debate.

If you really don't care, why are you creating this thread? You obviously care enough that you want to put down your vote of support for the game - the work that Firaxis are doing.

 

[aziantuntija]

Its because IMO you CAN be a fan of something without getting too "passionate" about it.

Do you go up to a passionate sports fan after his/her team just lost an important game and tell him/her "hey, it's just a game. Move on."?

I like to watch ice hockey, if my team loses i move on really quickly, it really doesnt bother me all that much cause after all, its JUST A GAME!

 

[Ahriman]

I don't see what your problem is with people expressing their concerns for a game they love.

I won't speak for others, but my personal problem comes when people start scaring away potential buyers through baseless fear-mongering and disinformation.

Valve will shut down your account and you will lose your games!
2K will make it so that mods cannot be distributed except through Steam, and will charge you even for fan-made mods!
2K staff are corporate stooges/evil masterminds planning to take all your money, and everything they say is a lie!

Constructive criticism and expressing preferences are fine, but the degree of rage and the attacks on 2K staff got pretty out of hand.

 

[Greybriar]

My goodness people, this is only a game. And it's the next one in the greatest franchise in video games... bar none.

Steam, or no Steam. Racist developers, or not. Don't care. Not ONE bit.

As long as I am entertained by the gameplay, I don't care how I get there and what hurdles I have to overcome (or install).

The only thing that would ever stop me from playing Civ is the price. If the next version cost about $499.99 -- I'm out. But at $50 or whatever it will be, I have no problem, I am getting a copy. Even if I don't like it as much as 4, it will still be worth the money. It is CIV.

And even if I am wrong, ITS ONLY A GAME PEOPLE, MOVE ON.

Why on earth did you feel it was necessary to start yet another Steam vs Anti-Steam debate in yet another thread on this forum? If anyone should move on, it's YOU!

 

[PieceOfMind]

I won't speak for others, but my personal problem comes when people start scaring away potential buyers through baseless fear-mongering and disinformation.

Valve will shut down your account and you will lose your games!
2K will make it so that mods cannot be distributed except through Steam, and will charge you even for fan-made mods!
2K staff are corporate stooges/evil masterminds planning to take all your money, and everything they say is a lie!

Constructive criticism and expressing preferences are fine, but the degree of rage and the attacks on 2K staff got pretty out of hand.

There's the word evil again. Is there such a thing as love mongering? (What I would like to see is that if you want to argue someone was calling something evil, please quote where it was said)

As for fear-mongering and disinformation, just correct people when they're wrong. If people are reading the forum in order to make an informed decision about whether to play civ5, they will see a wide range of opinions on the matter. If you make intelligent posts explaining why a 'paranoid' person is wrong, people reading will agree with what you write. Trying to get people to be quiet just because you don't agree with them is quite different.

Evrett has some pretty contentious opinions I know. Some of them I think aren't completely appropriate in the forum (like singling out 2K Elizabeth) while others I think are fair enough (this protest thread for example, though I personally don't agree with the point). I think it's best to refute his posts in separate threads rather than discount absolutely everything he says just because he has said some things that went too far.

If you believe a thread or post is going to far, just report it to a moderator and any necessary action will be taken.

 

[Mercade]

My goodness people, this is only a game. And it's the next one in the greatest franchise in video games... bar none.

Steam, or no Steam. Racist developers, or not. Don't care. Not ONE bit.

As long as I am entertained by the gameplay, I don't care how I get there and what hurdles I have to overcome (or install).

The only thing that would ever stop me from playing Civ is the price. If the next version cost about $499.99 -- I'm out. But at $50 or whatever it will be, I have no problem, I am getting a copy. Even if I don't like it as much as 4, it will still be worth the money. It is CIV.

And even if I am wrong, ITS ONLY A GAME PEOPLE, MOVE ON.

Couldn't agree more.

People can be passionate about all sorts of things. Do you go up to a passionate sports fan after his/her team just lost an important game and tell him/her "hey, it's just a game. Move on."?

Some people will take things more seriously than you while some will take it less seriously than you. I don't see what your problem is with people expressing their concerns for a game they love. For the most part, this community is united by its passion or love of the civilization games. Pretty much anything else is up for debate.

If you really don't care, why are you creating this thread? You obviously care enough that you want to put down your vote of support for the game - the work that Firaxis are doing.

Yes and no. In your analogy, the important game isn't for another 100 days. Some vocalists are already crying bloody murder because they don't agree with the purchase of a new base player.

Furthermore there's a new level of language and outrage that I haven't seen with previous incarnations of Civ and still don't see on e.g. a German language forum. The term hate speech and calling for a boycot both in relation to a poor choice of words on the marketing website is not even about the game itself, yet it's hugely antagonizing.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Mercade,
Yes, well, what can you do? Unless he's breaking the forum rules, he's allowed to voice his extreme views. Most people will see it as nothing more than exaggerating a point.

If someone came on here with the exact opposite view - that civilization is the greatest game of all time and we should start an anti-boycott - a signal that no matter what you will buy the game and even if it's worse than Farmville, would you be similarly against such extreme views? The reason many of us want him to be quiet is that we're uncomfortable with his opinion or as Ahriman said, concerned that his opinions could scare people away. To the latter point, I find it hard to worry too much as it's up to 2K to bring on the marketing and advertising. If anyone needs to sell the game it's them, not us. We here are free to be critical of what we learn about the upcoming game in both positive and negative ways.

I do believe if someone feels something is important enough to protest about then they should protest. We've already seen inappropriate comments removed from the civ5 website because of the loud protest of a couple of people in particular. As much as the posts are not pleasing to read, they are serving a purpose. Protesting various unpleasant features of civ5 (mainly focused around the steam issue at the moment I suppose) before everything is set in stone could have a real influence on the game's development. It's hard to know just how much influence because there is seriously a severe lack of info about the game so close to release. Rest assured that 2K and Firaxis do browse these forums and get a feel for the issues that are concerning civfanatics. Would you care to make any speculation about why the Deluxe edition has been pulled from the steam store outside of the US, for example? There's something going on over at 2K and Firaxis.

 

[Ahriman]

would you be similarly against such extreme views?

What harm does it do?
Its obvious to any reader that the author couldn't know what they're talking about (the game isn't complete yet), and can be ignored.
Its not obvious to an inexperienced reader that someone ranting about how terrible Steam is may not know what they're talking about.

to the latter point, I find it hard to worry too much

All of us buying the game are better off if more people rather than less people buy the game.

More people buying the game means:
a) More revenue for the developers, making it more likely they will see it as profitable to fund expansion packs and sequels, and making it more likely they will provide patches, improvements and support.
b) More people making and improving mods through feedback
c) More people in community aspects, such as PBEM, succession games, or multiplayer.

I hope that Civ5 is a great game, and that if it is a great game, that it sells many copies.

before everything is set in stone

See, this is the thing. Steam *is* basically set in stone. They're not going to change the game's architecture 3 months from release. To think otherwise is naive.

This is why the bluster is so infuriating. It has almost zero chance of actually changing anything.

 

[PieceOfMind]

What harm does it do?
Its obvious to any reader that the author couldn't know what they're talking about (the game isn't complete yet), and can be ignored.
Its not obvious to an inexperienced reader that someone ranting about how terrible Steam is may not know what they're talking about.

Perhaps, but I suspect you give the average reader not enough credit. How often do you go to a forum and just trust that whatever someone is saying is accurate? I don't know about you but I am rarely trusting of such sources.

All of us buying the game are better off if more people rather than less people buy the game.

More people buying the game means:
a) More revenue for the developers, making it more likely they will see it as profitable to fund expansion packs and sequels, and making it more likely they will provide patches, improvements and support.
b) More people making and improving mods through feedback
c) More people in community aspects, such as PBEM, succession games, or multiplayer.

I hope that Civ5 is a great game, and that if it is a great game, that it sells many copies.

I'm starting to see what your motives are now. An alternative point of view is that if steam is not good for civ5, it's important we voice our opinions on a forum like this so that the devs and publishers actually listen. To be fair, how many people actually come to civfanatics to decide whether or not to buy the game? I would be interested in some hard evidence suggesting that our voicing of concerns here would cause a loss of sales.

Your reasoning makes sense to me, but there is a problem. If civ5 is not all that good a game, supporting it and making it appear that it was the most successful game either because it received the highest sales figures or highest profits, we could reinforce the actions that led to this situation. That is, we send a message to the dev/publisher saying we will buy whatever crap they give us and are happy to surrender lots of little things just to deter a few people from being able to illegally run the game.

See, this is the thing. Steam *is* basically set in stone. They're not going to change the game's architecture 3 months from release. To think otherwise is naive.

This is why the bluster is so infuriating. It has almost zero chance of actually changing anything.

Steam itself may be set in stone but how about all the things that are going to come along with it? For example, 2K have been worryingly hesitant to answer any questions about how patching will work. I know you and I both are concerned about this. If it's always assumed that auto-updating is a lovely feature that comes free to steamworks games, the dev/publisher may be in for a rude shock when they find it pissing people off.

There are probably several things not set in stone yet, many of which are reasonable to voice concerns about. Another example is how DLC will be handled. I can understand some people wanting to adopt a more relaxed "wait and see" approach. Please be understanding of people who are more pessimistic and want to voice their most dreaded of fears. As much as there is good news to come, there is likely to be a few more bits of bad news before release, and I bet some of the pessimistic predictions turn out to be true.

 

[Jaybe]

Just you guys wait!

Wait until Firaxis spills the beans on OTHER ways that 5 will be different than 4. I'll bet that steam will not be the only thing that people become steamed about.

Oh, NO! They shouldn't do it THIS way ... that would be so ... different.
Just as Steam is "different". Well, so is a cell phone, whether it's Verizon, Sprint or AT&T!

 

[evrett37]

The games you are certain not to win are the ones you dont play. Anyone who gives up on a Steamless Civ before the game has even been released is spineless cephalopod and a traitor to the game. Should Steam and the poor choices make it past release it is still worth trying to work for a better Civ.

I swear, people these days are turning into the lardball humans from the movie WALL-E..submissive and lazy accepting anything that is shoveled down their throat.God forbid any of you step out of your precious routine and kick a little to make the game better.

 

[Betonov]

the WALL-E comparison hits the mark, more true than we would like to believe

 

[Earthling]

Valve will shut down your account and you will lose your games!
2K will make it so that mods cannot be distributed except through Steam, and will charge you even for fan-made mods!
2K staff are corporate stooges/evil masterminds planning to take all your money, and everything they say is a lie!

To put things in perspective though, this happens with most major video games these days anyway. In a lot of ways, the community here is small and polite and not rabid at all - nothing compared to what you see about Blizzard or Microsoft or other companies all the time. These worries in paritcular, definitely ill-founded, but they are not unique to anything about civ, it's just general random rants that for some reason are common around a lot of games and media these days.

 

[myturn]

Its not obvious to an inexperienced reader that someone ranting about how terrible Steam is may not know what they're talking about.

Its not obvious to an inexperienced reader that someone ranting about how amazing Steam is may not know what they're talking about.

Moderator Action: we have a zero tolerance policy on piracy on these forums.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

No, I am from the Civ generation. I have been playing since Civ 1 and nothing will stop me from enjoying Civ 5.

And really, regarding the racist crap, do a few bad apples really ruin the whole dessert? No! There is no evidence of anything. If Hitler ran Fireaxis or 2K, well, you gotta point. That is clearly not the case.

A few bad apples do ruin the desert if it's an apple pie.