Civ 5 - Why the protest?

[Me,myself,and,I]

The games you are certain not to win are the ones you dont play. Anyone who gives up on a Steamless Civ before the game has even been released is spineless cephalopod and a traitor to the game. Should Steam and the poor choices make it past release it is still worth trying to work for a better Civ.

I swear, people these days are turning into the lardball humans from the movie WALL-E..submissive and lazy accepting anything that is shoveled down their throat.God forbid any of you step out of your precious routine and kick a little to make the game better.

I have no wish to see a steam-less ciV I really don't care.

 

[Macadami]

I still just do not understand why people are so angry over it. Some profess that it's a resource hog, uploads all of your personal information to spammers, and that it's nothing more than a buggy piece of spam-ware.

Well I've been using steam for oh 10-11 years now and have never had a single issue. I've never popped open task manager and seen Steam.exe hogging all my resources, never once had it crash or cause me not to be able to play a game, and I don't receive tons of spam in my email or have pop-ups or anything else....and i don't even run any form of anti-virus at all...which brings me to my next point.

If steam has -appeared- to cause you problems in the past it was more than likely something else on your system. Spyware detectors, 99% of antivirus software, and damn near anything that promises to increase system performance are nothing but lies and are infact more harmful than running nothing at all.

Those of you scared of Phishing techniques....don't tell anyone anything, it's that simple. Why would any company's representative ever ask for your information online? I've seen some people say they've seen 'malicious groups' on steam....there is no such thing. Joining a group doesn't provide anyone information they couldn't already get by looking at your profile(which you don't even have to make) There aren't 'scripts' attached to groups, no programs that will be ran, and no webpages that will be opened by joining a group. You're at a much higher risk infecting your computer, or giving someone access by googling for porn.

Now the auto update fiasco....if i run my steam purchased copy of Dragon Age:Origins right now, guess what? It asks me if i wish to update it....i click no, and the game loads in it's current version fully playable with broken quests and infinite xp bugs. Forced updates are only required for games that connect to a centralized server. Take Battlefield Bad Company 2 for instance....if i hadn't patched it months ago and tried to connect a server running the newest patch, i wouldn't be able to connect. Why? Because they've tweaked all the guns, maps, and fixed a lot of glitches and it would not be fair much less compatible, that I still had all the overpowered weapons.

Unless your planning on playing multiplayer you will never have an issue with not being able to run the game, no matter what version you have. Even in multiplayer i'm sure you could find someone who also refused to click the update button and connect and play just fine....as is with all other p2p games.

Does steam collect personal information on you? It sure does...assuming by personal information you mean what game you're playing and for how long you played it. Does it scour your hard drive for child porn, illegal movies, or *gasp* Abba mp3's? No, never has nor never will. Why do i say this?

Steam's Privacy Policy
Steam's Subscriber Agreement

Because it would violate their own policies, which means if it were to happen, you could sue them until people had to run jimmysleetsofware.exe instead of steam.exe and all this hate and rage could be directed to you.

The only part of their policies i can see people flipping out about is under 'User Generated Information' which basically states if you were to lay out a plan in detail on an infinite energy device, they could steal it and make it their own.....but uh every forum including this one, has the exact same clause. If that wasn't the case, and it instead said that they would never ever use your ideas, posts, or artwork than everytime something similar appeared by a game developer you could more than likely talk some GED law guy into filing a case against them quoting post dates and similarities.

I know this won't change anyone's mind, people are stubborn, but with 10 years of steam experience I honestly do not have a single bad thing to say about them....except that they didn't invite me into the CounterStrike:Source 2 beta... :[

 

[Commander Bello]

All of us buying the game are better off if more people rather than less people buy the game.

More people buying the game means:
a) More revenue for the developers, making it more likely they will see it as profitable to fund expansion packs and sequels, and making it more likely they will provide patches, improvements and support.
b) More people making and improving mods through feedback
c) More people in community aspects, such as PBEM, succession games, or multiplayer.

I hope that Civ5 is a great game, and that if it is a great game, that it sells many copies.

Unfortunately, bigger sales figures do not necessarily mean a better product. Especially not, if the approach of "don't critizise, please!" it taken.

Bigger sales figures may indicate a better product in case of open debate about the pros and cons of certain features - as by then "the customer" would have had the chance to make up his mind and take the decision whether to buy or not.

See, this is the thing. Steam *is* basically set in stone. They're not going to change the game's architecture 3 months from release. To think otherwise is naive.

This is why the bluster is so infuriating. It has almost zero chance of actually changing anything.

I agree that for the initial release there seems to be almost no chance to avoid Steam anymore.

Yet, the thunderous voicelessness of the 2k representatives about the matter of mods and updates could be a hint that they may have missed something while being enthusiastic about "how easy" everything seemed to be in a golden future.

In general, none of our questions - except for 3 or 4 very basic ones - have been answered in any way. All what has been said was "things are not yet set in stone", "the game is still under development", "I want to make sure", "I will come back to you", "trust me, there will be GREAT news in the future" and so on.

But, except for maybe 20 per cent, which have been really technical ones, the other questions were just questions about the principles of how the company would deal with certain issues.
Either, these questions (the 80 per cent of general "policy related" questions") have really come to be a complete surprise for them, uncovering that they have overlooked quite some potential impacts (which I cannot believe because of the general nature of these questions) or they are very busy in finding the right wording to make it at least sound nice, before the truth will be revealed to the customer.
And the last option would be that at the very moment they are trying hard to change some things to make them become compliant with the fanbase's expectations.

In any way, complaining about "complainers" does not make anything better. Nor will it lead to any better end result.

 

[Ahriman]

Unfortunately, bigger sales figures do not necessarily mean a better product. Especially not, if the approach of "don't critizise, please!" it taken.

Bigger sales figures may indicate a better product in case of open debate about the pros and cons of certain features - as by then "the customer" would have had the chance to make up his mind and take the decision whether to buy or not.

Sales won't occur until the product is done. Once the product is done, better sales mean better support.

There's nothing wrong with trying to get realistic change suggestions in now.
Constructive criticism, good.

But loud and constant and *repeated* whining? Not so much.

have really come to be a complete surprise for them

What do you base this on?

 

[astrognash]

The thing with Steam is that it's mostly being used as an anti-piracy thing.

Now, 2k will put in something to prevent piracy no matter what.

Would you prefer, say, SecuROM, which has been known to screw up peoples' computers?

 

[The_J]

I still just do not understand why people are so angry over it.

Because we're forced to use it.

I hope nobody will ask why i do not want to be forced to anything.

Either, these questions (the 80 per cent of general "policy related" questions") have really come to be a complete surprise for them, uncovering that they have overlooked quite some potential impacts (which I cannot believe because of the general nature of these questions) or they are very busy in finding the right wording to make it at least sound nice, before the truth will be revealed to the customer.

I guess they just haven't cared about them until now, because there's a concept out there which works for every other company. -> no need to think about it now, because it just has to work.

 

[aziantuntija]

Because we're forced to use it.

I hope nobody will ask why i do not want to be forced to anything.

Your NOT forced to use steam! Nobody is!

I have NEVER used steam before, but im going to start using it this fall and the reason for that is Sid Meyer's Civilization V.

 

[Akka]

As long as I am entertained by the gameplay, I don't care how I get there and what hurdles I have to overcome (or install).

Well, you're short-sighted and counter-productive.

"bread and games" like the Romans said.

Moderator Action: do not attack other members of the forum

 

[aziantuntija]

OMG Akka! ITS A GAME! He just wants to buy the damn game and enjoy the gameplay of new Civilization V (as do i)!

Well, you're short-sighted and counter-productive.

CMON! Again, its a game! Whats the worse that can happen here?! Are we going to die if we buy and play it?!

 

[myturn]

Isn’t it amazing how people love drama? I mean, thread name is ‘why protest?’ and then some of us find quite appropriate to post OMG, WHY OH, WHY YOU PROTEST… and basically protest against protest.

And I really can’t see why you would assume that those who express their concerns about important issues have something against you and your enjoying the game.
It’s quite opposite, at least in my case.

 

[aziantuntija]

Isn’t it amazing how people love drama? I mean, thread name is ‘why protest?’ and then some of us find quite appropriate to post OMG, WHY OH, WHY YOU PROTEST… and basically protest against protest.

And I really can’t see why you would assume that those who express their concerns about important issues have something against you and your enjoying the game.
It’s quite opposite, at least in my case.

Well if somebody says to me something like this: "Well, you're short-sighted and counter-productive." when i just want to buy and play the game, then i think it really is a OMG moment Im sorry i just cant help it

BTW, did it ever cross your mind that if your so concerned about drama, then why are you adding fuel to the flames and posted?

 

[PieceOfMind]

CMON! Again, its a game! Whats the worse that can happen here?! Are we going to die if we buy and play it?!

If you forget to eat, you might.
It has happened to a gamer before, not a civ player though.

 

[myturn]

BTW, did it ever cross your mind that if your so concerned about drama, then why are you adding fuel to the flames and posted?

1) So you were just flaming and I somehow added to that?
2) Enlighten me please, what is this thread about?

Thanks anyway.

 

[aziantuntija]

1) So you were just flaming and I somehow added to that?
2) Enlighten me please, what is this thread about?

Thanks anyway.

Are you really just trying to annoy people? Because it really looks like your not bringing anything to the conversation.

Nobody isnt flaming here but that shouldnt really be a exccuse for trolling

EDIT: Also i didnt know that using BIG LETTERS is definition for somekind of flaming, IMO it isnt.

Moderator Action: Flaming - warned
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Akka]

OMG Akka! ITS A GAME! He just wants to buy the damn game and enjoy the gameplay of new Civilization V (as do i)!

CMON! Again, its a game! Whats the worse that can happen here?! Are we going to die if we buy and play it?!

Hu, yes, it's a game, so what ?
I don't claim it will destroy his life or make his children starve. I say that he is short-sighted. The worse that can happen is what's precisely happening right now : by "not bothering", he validates the slippery slope of diminishing consumers rights. Nothing "big" on his scale, but he indirectly supports it nonetheless.

It's the apathy of the masses that allows such slopes to be slid down. It's not life-threatening, it's just a little step in the bad direction.

Pity most people are just too simplistic to grasp this.

 

[myturn]

Are you really just trying to annoy people? Because it really looks like your not bringing anything to the conversation.

Nobody isnt flaming here but that shouldnt really be a exccuse for trolling

EDIT: Also i didnt know that using BIG LETTERS is definition for somekind of flaming, IMO it isnt.

The only person mentioned flaming is you. You said that I responded to a flame (I guess it sounded smart to you), when I responded with question about it, you say that nobody’s flaming (and edited like someone said that uppercase words are flaming- that’s just plain YELLING) … get your marbles straight boy.

Well, at least I tried to be polite. Thought that the word ‘please’ would be a clue, but the blood in your eyes seems to have reduced your ability to see it.

As for short-sightedness, i will give you another clue.

Spoiler :

Research has shown that young children cannot identify the intimate couple because they do not have prior memory associated with such scenario. What they will see are the nine dolphins. Additional note: This is a test to determine if you already have a corrupted mind. If it's hard for you to find the dolphins within 6 seconds, your mind is indeed corrupted.

So if thread name is question 'Why protest?' i think i've responded to that one pretty well. Thousands of eyes and minds CAN make a change.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling, warned for inappropriate image, image deleted.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[aziantuntija]

The only person mentioned flaming is you. You said that I responded to a flame (I guess it sounded smart to you), when I responded with question about it, you say that nobody’s flaming (and edited like someone said that uppercase words are flaming- that’s just plain YELLING) … get your marbles straight boy.

Well, at least I tried to be polite. Thought that the word ‘please’ would be a clue, but the blood in your eyes seems to have reduced your ability to see it.

As for short-sightedness, i will give you another clue.

Spoiler :

Research has shown that young children cannot identify the intimate couple because they do not have prior memory associated with such scenario. What they will see are the nine dolphins. Additional note: This is a test to determine if you already have a corrupted mind. If it's hard for you to find the dolphins within 6 seconds, your mind is indeed corrupted.

So if thread name is question 'Why protest?' i think i've responded to that one pretty well. Thousands of eyes and minds CAN make a change.

Could you please stop this? Im not even reading your posts anymore because you obviously just want to make a fight out of this. In Finnish army we have this saying: "Turpa kiinni rivissä" i think we could both do that starting now.

 

[AlpsStranger]

The games you are certain not to win are the ones you dont play. Anyone who gives up on a Steamless Civ before the game has even been released is spineless cephalopod and a traitor to the game. Should Steam and the poor choices make it past release it is still worth trying to work for a better Civ.

I swear, people these days are turning into the lardball humans from the movie WALL-E..submissive and lazy accepting anything that is shoveled down their throat.God forbid any of you step out of your precious routine and kick a little to make the game better.

Yeah, it's totally impossible that we just agree with some/most of the decisions in Civ5. Honestly, the Babylon-as-DLC thing has me a little mad, but that's about it. Steam mandatory is fine(I run 99% of my games through Steam,) and 1upT is fantastic. You are not some grizzled old hero of the gaming scene.

Developers make games better.

Moderator Action: Please don't personally attack other members on the forums

 

[myturn]

Could you please stop this? Im not even reading your posts anymore because you obviously just want to make a fight out of this. In Finnish army we have this saying: "Turpa kiinni rivissä" i think we could both do that starting now.

Haha. RESULT. I'm stopping. Though i don't know if "Turpa kiinni rivissä" means 'f#ck off' or 'i've had enough' but result will be the same.



Moderator Action: Trolling - herre and above, stop it.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[AlpsStranger]

Edited to preempt a mod edit. Nothing to see here.